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Heartless Summoning is broken and this is the deck to show why it is broken. I want to give a shout out to Seras for confirming this combo is legal and for some of the ideas in the deck. (see http://forums.mtgvault.com/showthread.php?t=6717) Heartless Summoning + 2 Myr Retriever can make an Infinite Creature Casting and Destroy loop 1. Cast Heartless Summoning 2. Put into play Myr Retriever (a) for free comes into play and then dies and goes to graveyard due to Heartless Summoning 3. Puti into play Myr Retriever (b) for free as is comes into play Myr Retriever (a) comes back into your hand due to Myr Retriever (b) comes into play ability. Myr Retriever (b) dies and goes to graveyard due to Heartless Summoning 4. Repeat steps 2 and 3 endlessly. Many possible combos especially with storm cards Here are just a few that are fairly cheap to get out Infinite Creature Cast/Destroy Loop + grapeshot = infinite damage brainfreeze = infinite library milling bitter ordeal = infinite exile all cards from opponent's library Glimpse of Nature = Infinite card draw Dross Harvester = Infinite Life gain Blowfly Infestation = infinite -1/-1 counters Fecundity = infinite card draw Moonlit Wake = infinite life gain Carnival of Souls = infinite life loss mana gain Empty the Warrens = infinite 1/1 goblin tokens Cream of the Crop = infinite card draw Onslaught = infinite tap target creature Quest for the Gravelord = make a 5/5 zombie giant token creature for 1 mana Quest for the Holy Relic = find equiptment card in library and put on creature in play for 1 mana Sadistic Glee = enchanted creature gains infinite +1/+1 counters Turn 1 Infinite Damage Lay swamp + Dark Ritual + Heartless Summoning + cast two Myr Retrievers repeatly + (exile Simian Spirit for red mana) + cast grape shot for infinite damage Grapeshot Sorcery, 1R (2) Grapeshot deals 1 damage to target creature or player. Storm (When you cast this spell, copy it for each spell cast before it this turn. You may choose new targets for the copies.) Very unlikely Turn 1 Infinite lIfe Lay swamp + 2 Dark Ritual + Heartless Summoning + Dross Harvester + cast two Myr Retrievers repeatly Dross Harvester Creature — Horror 4/4, 1BB (3) Protection from white At the beginning of your end step, you lose 4 life. Whenever a creature dies, you gain 2 life. Deck has 6 tutors to help find pieces of combo. and 4 Thoughtseize to help prevent opponent's disruption of combo. (If you can't afford 4 Thoughtseize then 4 Duress will do the job too)
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nice. I very much like it. :) heartless is just beastly. Love decks like this. again, I like the enginuity that it takes to make the. :)
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there is a site that lets you print off cards to use but you cant use them in tournaments
I honestly don't see why this deck has so few comments or likes. This deck should be front page.
Hi Kazzaong, Glad you like the deck. I not sure why this deck hasn't got more comments. Perhaps it's because the Vault is lately mostly about posts for standard decks. There are not too many Legacy casual players like me visiting the Vault regularly. And Standard players are often hesitate to offer advise or comment on Legacy and Vintage decks. Heck even I'm hestitate and rarely ever suggest adise for Vintage decks and I've played since Ice Age. Also most good casual decks don't get commented because they are not "tourney worthy". Even if a casual deck does something really new and very different rarely is it "tournament worthy". Anyway don't worry to much about not me making Front Page, I've had my fair share Front Page decks. Feel free to post any decks you'd like me to look at and I'll try to get around to checking it out.
It has nothing to do with front page status. Ut just seems to be that good interesting decks like this should not go un noticed. They should be discussed and refined just like the rest
Because I am a relatively new player (about 2 years) and have barely any knowledge of older cards, I can't offer any advice for this deck. However, I did want to comment and say how awesome I think it is, and to help it get the front page position that it deserves, where people that CAN help will find it. So, yeah, really awesome combos. They all are. :)
Hi Gaspartacus, Glad you like the deck. One trick I constantly use to help me make decks and give suggestions is to use MTG card info database site: http://magiccards.info/search.html Use it and soon you'll be making decks and giving advise like you've been playing since Limited Edtion Alpha. If you have any decks you'd like me to look at post them here.
Thanks, I'll check it out. :) I'd appreciate comments on any of my decks, but this one is probably my favorite http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=350136
Hi Gaspartacus, I left comments and suggestions on your deck.
this deck is great and it should get to the front page. it can if people comment. i wish i could give some advice, but i'm new (started playing nov 18 2011) and all i know is standard. this might help clear some things up about getting to the front page etc... http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=352188
Hi KJSJ3, Glad you like this deck. Interesting to learn that a deck needs 50 likes to get to be on Top Deck page. If you have any decks you'd like to look at post them here.
This is amazing!, never thought this combo even exists. I would love your opinion on this deck Here's the link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=345461 Thanks.
Hi Tremorth, Left comments and suggestions on your reanimator deck.
Like many people, i am also hesitant to post on legacy decks, i mostly play standard, but ive been starting to get into legacy. Correct me if im wrong, but i dont think you can win turn one. You cant cast grapeshot until turn two, it requires a mountain. Also, ive noticed the invitation on other commenters, and id appreciate it if you would look at the deck ive been working on for legacy, its built around an intruder alarm combo. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=350376
I love legacy myself, I'm the opposite haha i don't post much on standard because i don't get into that format much. But he has simian spiritguide in there for his red mana, he just removes it from his hand and gets a free red mana. It's a sweet little card.
Hi raginggoblin, Like Chewrida says Simian Spirit Guide and Manamorphose can help provide red mana first turn for Grapeshot. I've taken a look at your Intruder Alarm deck and left a couple comments and suggestions.
I love the myr retriever combo, I have a deck that infinitely abuses myr retriever as well. You should try adding Bitter Ordeal, it works wonders in my deck, it decks every opponent at once, and gets past those nasty cards like emrakul that prevents deckings because it's removed from the game. =p nice deck tho
Yeah, you could replace Dross Harvester with Bitter Ordeal. But I use Dross Harvester because I wanted to catch attention with the deck by showing how it can get infinite life on turn 1. I some how skipped Bitter Ordeal in my list of storm combo cards. I've added it to the list. Thanks for the reminding me. If you have any decks you'd like me to look at post it here.
No problem, bitter ordeal is my favorite card to abuse with myr retriever, but i never even thought of dross harvester for it so kudos there. And I would post one or two of my decks but it's hard to just choose one haha I actually own all of the decks on my page so if you wanted to check out any of them and/or throw in your thoughts for any one of them, I'm always trying to improve my decks =p
Chewrida, Took a look at your Flying/Spirits deck. Left a few comments and a couple comparison decks to check out.
Thank you for your suggestions they helped, as i responded to your comment on my deck, I like the idea of phantasmal image, and I'm thinking of replacing condemn with something, but im unsure of what yet to replace it with, i might just take both of the condemns out for 2 phantasmal images but i wanna make sure my removal and creature control stays balanced.
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I'm a purely casual player, myself. I really dig this idea. I'm not usually fond of infinite combos, since they usually are kinda boring and can be pretty easy to counter, most of the time. This one is interesting since there's more to it than just one move. I hate to be an ad whore, but would you mind taking a look at some of my decks and telling me what you think?
Instead of Swamps I'd use Vault of Whispers. Goes more with Retriever and Diamonds.
Dross Harvester has TWO Black Mana symbols in it's cost. Heartless can't reduce that.
thats why the first turn combo requires 2 dark rituals
Marvelous! You sire, cracked the Magic egg ! This is insane, brilliant, megalomaniacally awesome! I would very much like to hear your two cents on my B/G Reanimator - should I make it mono-black? http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=351200
Hi Bl@ckfir£_Phoen¿x, Took a look at your deck left a few comments, suggestions, and even a sample deck to look at.
That is one really nice idea. Simple and has low mana requirements. Just a side note though. Dross harvester has two black mana symbols which have to be payed regardless of the Heartless summoning.
meh, seems way too inconsistent.
Ethan Lewis, Never thought I'd read you acting as a troll. But I guess it's not too suprising you are so competitive ;-)) Note, I did label this deck as casual, normally if I think a deck is tourney worthy I always add a sideboard and label the deck Tournament. I guess I can understand you being a little put off because I claim the deck is broken. Well, the combo is broken. It allows for a turn 1 win, but without protection. If it could be cast with protection it would might even need to be banned. Though I doubt it, I don't think Wizards has ever banned a 4 card combo. Now if you and other other Magic masters here at the vault have an idea of how to make it so the combo less inconsistent. I'm eagerly awaiting your suggestions.
I'm not trolling, I'm being 100% serious haha. basically what you're doing is taking storm from a new standpoint, but you lack a lot of the elements that make storm so powerful. I'll hand it to you, it's a neat approach, and kudos on the creativity, but in terms of tournament strength (which I missed... now noting the casual hehe) it just seems too 'fluke-y' for my tastes. I'd offer suggestions, but most of my suggestions would just be geared towards storm deck-builds. D:
Hi dagbaker, Thanks for the idea. I forgot that Vault of Whispers is legal now in Legacy, but banned in modern. Will add changes.
Hi Jeri, As you and dagbaker so rightly point out can't use Heartless summoning to get out Dross Harvester first turn using just 1 Dark Ritual and Heartless Summoning. The easy solution is simple but not pretty add 1 Dark Ritual. A more elaborate fix would be to but in zero casting creatures and add Culling the Weak and take out Manamorphose and the Spirit guides. This would start turning the deck into a all black deck so you might as well change out the Grapeshot and put in Bitter Ordeal. If I do that the hold mana mana base might as well be tweaked too. And your really end up with a new and different deck. So rather than do that I think I'll just leave the deck alone and mention that the infinite life thing is really hard to get out first turn and is more likely second or third turn. Feel free to convert the deck into a all black deck and post it. Just give credit for where the idea came from.
I have always thought heartless summoning was way broken since it was first exposed, this deck drastically proves my thought, very nice deck i'm not a huge legacy person due to the high cost of some of the cards but this deck looks nearly flawless, i don't see much of an option for the opposing player but every deck has its days i suppose. high props to you and everybody who helped or confirmed it to be legit.
Hi Sevarisa, Thanks for the kind words. Alot of the deck is borrowed from Serra's fast and dirty deck he gave me as part of his reply confirming the combo is legal. Here is a copy of Sera's reply to my forum post about legality of combo: "It's not a loop per se, but it is a cycle you can repeat as much as you want. which is great for storm =) inspired me to make a modern storm deck based on this: 4 heartless summoning 4 myr retriever 4 infernal tutor 4 grapeshot 4 Manamorphose 4 Pyrite Spellbomb 3 empty the warrens 3 seal of fire 3 Gitaxian Probe 3 spellskite 24 lands not sure about the mana base yet" Seras Senior Member
Cool deck, maybe a few changes can help make it more consistent: -4 Mox diamond(you dont have spare lands to be sacrificing them) +4 Sol Ring -4 Dross Harvester +4 Sensei's Divining top(will help you dig for the combo) -4 Thouthsieze +4 Ancient Stirrings (can dig for the myrs, mana producing artifacts or senseis tops. Please check my standard deck and let me know what you think. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=349766
Forbidden Orchard could be an option also instead of Mox diamond or Vault of whispers.
Those are good suggestions, with one exception. Sol ring is a restricted card... :). You can only have a single copy in your deck.
Sorry about that I didn't know :P, Forbidden Orchard then.
no problem. :) I like the orchard. very good card. I could think of a ton of ways to make the "drawback" very useful. :)
Hi Sunblast'em, Thanks for the catch on Mox Diamond it was a mental error on my part it was supposed to be Chrome Mox I got the two confused. Some of your suggestions while well intentioned don't quite work within the rational of the deck. The idea of Forbidden Orchard replacing Chrome Mox defeats the purpose of using an artifact source which is in deck to allow the possiblity of getting one extra mana source on a turn just like lotus petal. Dross havester is there to allow the infinite life combo and can be a early game blocker/attacker. Thoughtseize to used to help protect the casting of the combo especially if you are playing more conservatively and not just hoping the opponent doesn't have something to disrupt the combo. Thoughtseize also is an awesome card to disrupt opponent's plans, maybe not as good as Duress as its a sorcery not an instant, but it can discard disruptive creature cards like Meddling Mage which Duress can't. It is exactly because the deck is not also packing 4 Duress that I consider this deck only good for casual play. If the deck fitted in 4 Duress and Thoughtseize some people might consider working to make this deck tournament worthy. Sensei's Divining Top is an interesting idea, but I already have 6 better search cards in the deck. Ancient Stirrings is a new card for me thanks for bringing it to my attention. I the past I've tended to use various Wish cards to get what I really needed in a deck. I think I have enough green mana sources to support maybe 2 of these cards in the deck. Thanks for the ideas and suggestions.
jaysus 0_0 and i thought su-chi Gravestorm was a good idea!
Nice deck, Could you take a look in this deck? Here's the link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=354670 Thanks.
Tremorth, Have left comments and suggestions on your burn deck posting.
Could you take a look at my Golem decks? Thanks. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=356676 http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=356771
I've created a similar deck that Is mono black and gives you unlimited life, mana, and damage to your opponenthttp://www.mtgvault.com/bugboy155/decks/infinite-life-instant-death/
Nice deck! it's quite good. All your decks are so awsome. :)