DARK DEPTHS RETURN

ONCE AGAIN... NEW WHITE WEENIE DECK

Awesome. Thanks I haven't heard of that card before! It'll work great. :)

I don't use the depths as much as aether snap...its a walker nuke lol

Nice! lots of ways to remove the counters! Great deck. :)

Thanks, I'll check those out. :)

I can't find bajuka bog, and Wasteland is above my price range for what I'm willing to buy. (I happened to have the Dark depths already) But I'll try Maze of Ith and Treetop village. :) Thanks

Cool. I would look for that bog though. It's a pretty important hate card

Also why do you run Urborg? To help pay for Hexmage? Oh and I would drop the Gemstone Caverns, it's just not consistent enough.

Bojuka Bog? It's in my edh deck.
http://www.mtgvault.com/dharr16/decks/oloros-pillowfort-edh-2/

Oh, ok. Got it. I think that it will be a good sideboard card.

I'm running the urborg for the hexmage, yes. It's nice because it makes itself a swamp too so I can still tap it for mana. and do you think that I should use lotus petal instead? I don't mind taking out the cavern, but don't want to unless I can get other mana turn one. Because if I do get that inconsistent chance, then I can still play another land that turn.

And what do you guys think of mutavault. I happen to have like six available and a lot of people use them

one more thing. If I thespian stage a legendary land... Do they both get saced? I've never really understood that rule.

One of your choice. so you copy depths sac the original with zero counters get marit lage and have another ready

Nice! That's perfect! Thanks. :)

Also it would copy. AS IS so if no counters are on the depths no counters are on the copy

Are you sure? I run some copying in one of my evolve decks and the new creature doesn't get the same # of +1/+1 counters as the other creature... I feel like this is no different.

At first I ran 3, but they would get in the way of eachother when I played against my friends. So now it's kind of like a leyline. If I start with it awesome, if not, no big deal. It can make the deck a lot faster. 2nd turn 20/20 flying indestructible. :)

Ah. Just a suggestion; Boseiju, Who Shelters All?

Maybe, but I don't like how slow it is and that you need to pay life to get any mana at all...

Yeah that's why it'll only be one copy. Just helps to get important cards out.

I was considering removal, but it isn't really what I want, although it would also help for when they have flying creatures to block with. And I usually don't worry about aggro. I can almost always have the creature by turn 3 or 4, sometimes turn one or two, so they don't give me any trouble. Thanks. :) I will throw in some dark rituals however, I forgot those.

Grim Discovery is not bad at all. I don't know about Rite of Consumption, it seems like it would be almost dead in this deck except that one special situation you described. Meanwhile he can run a single copy of Sejiri Steppe to fetch and get around that same situation.

NIce guys, thanks. I'll try grim discovery and sejiri steppe, and maybe check out rite of consumption to see if it works well. Thanks for the advice. :)

The reasoning though was to make walkers and legends used more and to keep players from blowing walkers up with the one they have. some cases make the rule completely broken while the rule breaks certain cards. i won't be surprised of legends like rhys the redeemed and krenko get restricted because of it. I see krenko going first though. In the end it could hurt or help but we can't say yet

But that reasoning is bullshit in the first place. If you want people to play more with legends or planeswalkers, make them stronger, doh. Blowing up your opponent's legend with your own was part of the game, a nice twist, I don't understand what's bad about it. There are more than 600 legendary permanents and something like 15000 cards in total, the probability that your opponent runs the same legend is incredibly small to begin with! Even then, the legendary status isn't just flavour, it is supposed to be a powerful card and the legendary status a way to make it more risky. But they are producing very powerful and swingy cards these days anyway. Really, this rule change makes no sense.

I hope players abuse the shit out of it so that R&D maybe realizes their error and go back to the older rules. They did take back combat damage using the stack, so there might be hope. And while they are at that, please bring back mana burn. I want to play my Power Surge deck again.

I really don't think they wwill bring mana burn back with all the mana makers nowadays and with them making Elvish archdruid and cards like it. and idk i personally like the rule change

wat
>JtMS, LotV
>need to make legends stronger

the only legends that ever get affected by your opponent's and yours interacting are the ones that were too strong already. Plus this way you can't copy kill in EDH. Maybe you haven't tried using multiple Nykthos's as rituals... This new legend rule is fair and makes things more fun.

It also makes the game more skill based as you can't just play beleren to blow up mind sculptor. you actually have to DO something about it instead of holding that card waiting fir them to MAYBE. play that legend or walker that cards useless. they changed it to better utilize cards that are good like JtMS legitimately playable

I didn't like that rule also because cards like phantasmal image will kill cards like Emrakul. The copying spells can get annoying in that case.

You guys have a weird perception.

Why is it more skill based if you have an option removed and when each player doesn't have to worry about the possibility that your opponent could get rid of your legend that way?

Phantasmal Image can kill Emrakul - isn't that a nice thing? Emrakul is a very, very stupid card, the list of abilities is so hilarious, if you asked little kids 10 years ago to invent their own cards, they would come up with something like Emrakul. And now it is a real thing. And any idiot can have one in play early with the various ways to circumvent casting costs. So, isn't it fair that I can kill it with a copier? And, isn't this the essence of Magic, that you can use tricks to get out of very miserable positions and turn things around?

And Deathgofkira, are you trying to say that Jace wasn't playable beforehand? Think about it - if Jace wasn't playable, then >you wouldn't run into Jaces constantly< The legend rule only applies if both opponent have the same legend or planeswalker. So, despite some freak luck, this will only ever happen to very popular (and that means strong) cards. The legendary status is a way to limit the power of these cards. If a legend isn't powerful enough, the rule will almost never apply because it is very unlikely that both players will crank out their Maralen.dec. It only sees action when players get uncreative and play the same decks. And that basically means the old legend rule *worked as intended*!!

No, what you people really complain about isn't about skills or playability of cards. That's what MaRo told you. The true reason is that you just hate it when you play your degenerate deck and then someone kills your 50 dollar card with a cheap one and prevents you from wiping the floor with overpowered cards!

That's why there is hexproof now instead of shroud. That's why there is almost no symmetrical cards anymore or cards with dangerous upkeeps. That's why they removed mana burn and why they print really strong block mechanics and tribes so that decks build themselves. All of this is a way to nurse the current generation of players - make the game and deckbuilding as easy as possible, give them precons, divide the cards into guilds so that they can use the names as clues what to play together, remove every twist and edge that could make them stumble on their way to the easy win. Skill? It took skills to build deck when the creature types, block mechanics and card names didn't tell you what to play. It took skills to build a deck around a symmetrical card to make it wortwhile. It took skills to work around the fact that you opponnent's creatures could get the bonus from Crusade as well.

Wow, such a big rant because of the interaction of Thespian Stage and Dark Depths :)

Ok i see your point but when they change a rule like the legend rule they think about every format. so they thought about edh. And the argument about the return to ravnica block is complete nonesense. they made a new ravnica block because of the popularity of the original. Not to dumb down the game and give hints. and also even if newer players use the names as clues it still boils down to skill in the aspect that the decks would run the same cards. I made one guild deck because i liked it but. really i only used about 6 cards from the return to block. but the argument that guild decks make themselves is ridiculous because of card names. Amd no i wasn't saying jace wasn't playable i was making the point that he's wizards whore andd you run into him constantly because of his abilities. And everyone plays a jace because on top of the fact that no one wanted to be mind sculptored the new legend rule takes that aspect out so the diversity went up changing decks then became essential since you couldn't say i play jace killing yours. you have to take into the argument that edh is popular into the argument or its completely biased towards your personal format.

I wasn't talking about formats or specific blocks, I made general statements regarding general observations. Wizards is building out decks for many years now, that way it is easier for them to playtest. Whatever standard decks people are playing with now, very similar versions of that have been played by R&D in their "Future League" months ago.
I am playing and collecting nonstop since 1994 and can nothing but attest that the cards and the game HAS been dumbed down. It is still a comparebly complex game of course but with the masses of players also came the need to make everything more accessable. If you wanted a combo in 1996 you had to come up with one yourself and had to combine several cards and effects. Cards like Sisters of Stone Death that come with their combos built in were unheard of in the first years. Please note that Sisters of Stone Death is from the old Ravnica set. The process of dumbing down everything has begun a looong time ago. Dominant block mechanics and creature types that determine what decks can be played have been introduced as early as Odyssey. I mean - flashback, madness and threshold in the same block? If you didn't want to play with discard and your graveyard you had to ignore half of the available cards ... this is fundamently differnt from earlier sets that also had block mechanis but they worked more like themes, not as imperatives what to play. And don't get me started on creature types, with the exception of some few pumpers and specialized cards/creature types like the rebels, creature types just didn't matter unless you wanted to assemble theme decks.
See, if I open a disiplay of each expansion of the current block, all I have to do is to pick a creature type/colour/guild, then select creatures with the current block mechanic (heroic, battalion etc.) and add some removal and pumpers. As long as I adhere to basic rules of deck building like following a mana curve, this will result into a very strong deck even if I pick the creatures and spells at random within these restraints. Why? Because those abilities and type/theme related boosting effects are so strong that they supercede everything else. The decks literally build themselves because the synergies are printed in bold and blinking letters on the cards - and they have been delibarety designed to go well with each other.

About EDH, it's not simply a format that defines which cards are legal, it also has it's special set of rules. So, if the old legend rule caused problems in EDH, why can't they make a special legend rule just for EDH? And let's not forget that EDH is a casual format, it was created by the community and everything about is about casual play. Yet, players are currently trying hard to "break" the format and pimping their decks to maximum efficiency. A format like that shouldn't need rules changes like that or players are doing something wrong.

Wow, this is becoming an ethical discussion haha! I like both points of view. Puschin, I hadn't thought of it like that before. Thanks for bringing it up. :) and deathgodkira, that's probably one of the reasons that mind sculpter is banned, ( even though its very fun to redirect with some cards. :) and you guys need to try this.... Someone is playing door to nothingness in their deck, take over their turn and KILL THEM WITH IT!!!!! this exact thing happened to me yesterday! It was probably the coolest play I've ever seen in magic!

Mind Scupltor isn't banned in EDH or legacy, and from what I've heard they might be bringing him into modern as well.

Again i see your point. but really standard is the only time the decks are built like that. Modern legacy and vintage aren't to my knowledge. At least myy decks aren't. But that's standard and its a very limited format. its bound to happen. but that's happened since the first mechanic I'm sure. as for your comment about the legend rule I'm not entirely sure why thet didn't make the rule specifically for edh. R&D is the only ones that would know the exact reason though reasons i had stated above is what i have found on mtg sites as for the reasons.

Yeah and I am just questioning those reasons.

While it is true that what I described mostly applies to Standard, you have to realize that Standard is the most played and most influencial format. Whatever is played in Standard spills over to other formats and casual play. Personally I have stopped playing tournaments and league games years ago. And yet I have to face the same kind of decks in casual again and again. If a new set comes out, I know what I'll have to play against in the upcoming weeks and months. Look at the decks at this site - Standard or not, the majority of decks here are block mechanic or tribe related decks of all sorts. That's partly because cards don't mix up well with cards of other blocks but also because players stick to what they are used to and what they have grown up with. Creativity isn't exactly fostered anymore.

Maybe have a look at my decks - most of them are original but they get very few or no reponses at all. If a deck doesn't follow known formula X, people don't know what to say about it, even though I put detailed instructions into the descriptions what I am looking for. There might be other reasons for this, many decks get buried here without any replies, mostly because most people want replies and help for their own decks and can't be bothered to help out others first. However, if you scroll down the list of decks in the "hot" tab that get the most replies you'll only see Boros here and minotaurs there and the usual shenanigans, if you get what I am trying to say.

Anyway, thank you for reading and dealing with me although I didn't contribute anything useful to this deck, I am just an oldfart and Magic dinosaur that is waving his walking stick and complaining about the fancy new stuff :)

Hey its cool. but As far as thr younger players sticking to the some old things if iy makes you feel any better about it i refuse ti use only one block or set. i personally likr the diversity

Old Foggey?

Well if they pacify the token thespian stage takes care of it. You copy depths wiyh zero counters on it and before your turn sacrifice it for a second token and lose the first. though its still a very good point since the token is going to be wanted asap and the trick i described will still be iffy over the stage

It's just that I always assume that if you have 4 copies in your deck, it is impossible to get more than 2 of them in a given game. Not for a logical reason, just Murphies Law. Also I feel like any deck that relies to heavily on 1 game winning thing to . . . win, will get screwed by removal. So whenever I make a deck I try to make it without a single peice on which the deck hinges. That being said a 20/20 indestrutible is a solid hinge to rest on. I suppose it's just different deck design philosophy. That being said you could realistically lose to a white weenie deck playing squadron hawks as is (chump block for days), so maybe some rancor? but that just throws off the deck's whole groove. . . I dunno maybe I'm being to analytical.

Idk the tempt with discovery would bbe the only card id personally switch for it..reason being it assists the opponent...id only run cards that help the opponent with lands in a hug deck

Yeah it's just my taste more than anything else, but if you ever lose to squadron hawks due to lack of trample, I called it.

Yeah, pacifism is a bit of a problem, but it usually is nothing when I have not of this world. But I may consider some green artifact removal, and there are a couple cards that would get me through cards like squadron hawk, but I might consider rancor or black boardwipe. I happen to have some, so that would be good, and I like tempt with discovery because I have so many special lands that I can get better cards than them. But a From the Ashes might cause problems. And no, I've played white weenie decks and all that they do is stall to this deck. I have smaller creatures to block while my marit lage kills any flying that they might have.

Yeah, I considered fog, or maybe darkness or both, but I don't know what to take out. Any ideas? And I'll totally look at your rakdos deck. :)