Esper Control

Thanks you!

Blood Baron is way better than Aetherling

^lol wut?

lets be serious guys.

protection, lifelink, comes out sooner

Blood Baron isn't as good a finisher as Aetherling. Blood Baron is a better stabilizer, but not a better finisher.

if Aetherling resolves, you cant deal with it. protection means very little in a meta full of Celestial Flare, Devour Flesh, Away, and Agent of Fates.

I agree with Ninja and Helios. Blood Baron is nice but maindecked isn't much of a threat. Comes out sooner yea, pro black and white, cool. It can still get taken out. AEtherling is much harder to get rid of once he hits. If I need to Supreme Verdict then Blood Baron still gets destroyed. I can slow blink out AEtherling after an attack phase to board wipe. Then he'll come back at the end of my turn.

Agreed, mizzium gets it easily

Blood Baron is great since only Mizzium really kills it. I run it in my Esper as a 1-of and it is awesome. However, Aetherling is still necessary since it just wins games and has crazy evasion and protection.

the deck looks pretty sweet :) how does the mana bas works out? almost 45% comes into play tapped :(
Just curious :) hope your deck works!!

It works pretty well. Just have to know when to take a shock or not. It depends.

I forgot all about ultimate price. That would probably be a better option.

Why ultimate price? The cards that ultimate prize kills, doom blade already does. Doom blade kills boros reckoner, smiter, unmonstrous fleecemane lion, which are creatures you always want to kill. Ultimate price can't even kill obzedat who is the biggest issue for a control deck

Sorry didn't see your comment. I'm going back and forth with Ultimate Price/Doom Blade in my head. Liking Blade better to be honest. Doom Blade can't kill Obzedat either but you did make other good suggestions lol.

I wouldnt use either, and just up the number of Heros Downfall you run. its more versitile than any of those other ones.

difference between 3 mana and 2 is huge. BB is also a restriction that might not seem a big deal but it can be since the mana isn't as good as last block. He also needs UWW1 for veridct, UW1 for sphere, etc. So a B1 spell removal is actually quite good.

Can you look at my my deck?
http://www.mtgvault.com/chronoexe/decks/big-boros/

the difference between 3 and 2 is NOT huge. What are you going to have to remove in a control deck on turn 3? youre playing draw-go forever in many control decks anyways. the versatility is WELL worth the extra cost. a B1 removal spell is only good if it kills something. Doom Blade misses black creatures, UP misses multicolored. Heros DF gets ALL of them, AND PWs. its SO much better than those other spells, I cant even believe that this conversation is happening.

It matters when you have multiple threats to kill with your spot removal and you have 5 mana and you can only cast one kill spell instead of 2. Many games have been lost because of mana costs. Also post sideboard you can bring the in the one mana black kill spell that kills black creatures anyway. There's a reason that is being sided. Mana cost is a huge deal. That is why some cards in standard are amazing and such in other formats. Abrupt decay being 2 mana makes it a big deal. But 3 mana removal can be too slow. Yes too slow. just because standard is slowing down doesn't mean people aren't going to make fast aggro decks. If your opponent does a 2nd turn Burning tree and you have a hand of hero's downfalls you're going to wish they were doom blades.

and many have been won because of the versatility of a card. how many times have you been holding a doom blade and your opponent plays Desecration Demon? how about holding price vs Aurelia? there is a reason many top players started using Murder toward the end of the rotation, and HD is just an AMAZING murder.

We can argue all game about versatility vs cost. Cost itself is versatility. A control deck still wants to be able to interact wit its opponent. Not being able to kill creatures on turn 2 could make you lose a game. Red deck and aggro decks are always a safe bet in the beginning of a cycle. I don't like having an auto loss against aggro because I want to run 3 mana kill spells.

I have been thinking of dropping it for HD and the more I read yalls comments the more I lean towards it. Keep the input coming. Also plz like the deck. It would mean a lot :)

Also he is running scry lands and guild gates which means HD could be a turn 4 kill spell. Which just makes doom blade look better. Heck I am running 2 doom blades in my esper deck.

if you are losing to a turn 2 creature in a control deck full of sweepers, then YOURE bad. it has nothing to do with the creature on turn two. too many people forget that their life total is a resource and they just NEED to kill that Ash Zealot RIGHT away. if youre a contril deck, youre holding open for counterspells and card draw most of the time anyways, and taking 2 damage wont kill you, unless you are running Shock lands, Thoughtseize AND RTB. Doomblade and UP have their place, but its in the sideboard. the OBVIOUS mainboard option for contril spot removal is Heros D.

Yes 4 supreme verdicts that cost UWW1 with scry lands and guild gates. And if you don't draw it you just die because you have to play your 3 mana removal spells. Why do you think Jund was so good at winning? Because they ran enough spot removal in the early game to equalize then drop a bomb to win. That is a control deck. This is a control deck. You can go look at other control decks in MTGsalvation and almost all run doom blade. But I guess they must all be dumb for running those right now since a 3 mana kill spell should replace everything else.

Also the sideboard idea is so dumb. I don't like auto losing against aggro game 1. His only turn 2 plays are charm doom blade and syncopate. If he had essence scatter I might agree with you. As it is he could use 2 mana removal spells. Look at mine just to get an idea.

http://www.mtgvault.com/chronoexe/decks/esper-control-3/

lmao. Jund runs a 1GB spot removal, buddy. your argument is invalid.

They also ran mizzium mortars, and doom blade. LOL your argument is invalid.

My sideboard idea is dumb? I have thought about putting in Essence Scatter but just didn't. If I was going to put another counter in then it would be Swan Song.

No ninja's idea of sideboarding in doom blades instead of maindecking them.

I only run one because it is a 2 mana kill spell. That is really the only reason. I like Hero's Downfall a lot but I just want the option there in case I need it. That is really the only reason.

the only thing that is dumb here is chronoexe, as per usual.

DoomBlade is not going to be good in this format. you cant get aetherling with them, you cant get Desecration Demon with them, Blood baron, Obzedat, ect ect. there is nothing you CAN get that makes it worth running a spell with so much drawback when there is a clearly better option available. im done with this, I wont argue with the blind.

Well that is why I only run a one of it. It does have it's drawbacks but it isn't a complete waste to have. At least in my opinion...

I guess everyone else who plays doom blade is dumb. Hero's downfall is a murder upgrade. It does not replace every form of removal ever. Doom blade will see play as long as red deck wins, and GW aggro decks will be played. Guess what people also want to play besides control/? Again go look at MTG salvationn and go look at the decks and try to use your argument that doom blade should not be played. You don't want to argue becaues your points are wrong. Noone even said HD is bad. I just mentioned why doom blade is good too. But please ignore aggro.

no, I do not want to argue because I have better things to do than give a shit what you have to say. you choose to ignore my VALID points in favor of your weaker ones. goodnight.

I didn't see any valid points. I saw someone who ignores mana costs and mana constraints. someone who ignores the current meta and lives in a world where they always draw supreme verdict with perfect mana. Ignores scry lands, guild gates etc.

and I see someone who ignores dead draws and ACTUAL card restrictions, which cannot be fixed by correcting your mana base.

We just have go agree and disagree because I don't see your way of thinking and you don't see mine. There are valid points regardless.

I would just like to point out there was a standard open this weekend. 3 esper control decks made top 8. All 3 ran doomblade AND hero's downfall. 2 of each. But I guess they must be stupid too for not running 4 hero's downfall. Even though a monored deck won it all.

Good shit. Do you have a link? I'd like to see what the decks looked like. Just to compare.

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&t[C1]=1&start_date=2013-09-29&end_date=2013-09-29&start=1&finish=32&city=Worcester&start_num=1

Thoughtseize in the sideboard seems to be the way to go. Just what I figured.

Yea as I've been saying, it's more of a sideboard card.

lol. back to this? no.

and red should not have won. Bertorelli had an easy trip to the finals. he beat Esper Control in the Quarters and Gruul Monsters in the semis, though he just outraces that match. the finals he didnt even have to play. his opponent got land screwed both games, having only one color mana each game. when you cant verdict turn 4 against Red haste, you lose.

Doom blade didnt make the finals. neither did Downfall. no one cares.

Just the way the cards draw sometimes. Sucks he got land screwed. I'm sure he would have had it.

he was a heavy favorite. UW control should beat mono red. I posted a link to his UW control list in your UW list.

Yea I got that. Thanks man.

Funny how you say doom blade didn't make the finals yet every esper ran it. Esper control has 3 decks in top 8. No other archetype had that much. All 3 lists ran both but hey that doesn't mean anything. UW control lost because of taking hands that were a risk. He should have mulliganed but I can see the reasoning in his keep in both ways. Variance sucks. You say noone cares but you do care since you don't have any arguments anymore now that we have hard data. lol

Really you two? lol

chrono must be about 16. you can just smell the childish arrogance in his posts. you clearly just want to talk shit. Im sure youre quieter in person. the internet makes such tough guys.

I also said that HD didnt make the finals, dipshit. No one said Esper Control was a bad archetype, so youre just trying to create an argument that doesnt exist.

What I find funny is how much stock you put in the FIRST tournament of a new cycle. a budget deck won. that should tell you all you need to know about the top 8. why dont you wait a few weeks before you start bragging up the merits of your favorite decks top 8s.

Im over you.

More like an aggresive deck won because it realized that everyone was going to make mirdrange or control and he figured a fast aggro deck could beat them before it mattered. That's why I said doom blade was a good card since it helps you live against fast aggro. You're the one throwing insults I was simply stating facts. You don't like how noone believes your logic that HD is the end all removal spell and noone wants to run 4 MD. Tell you what. You clearly watch the tournament scene so when you find a top 8 esper deck running 4 main deck HD then you have the right to say anything. But they can't run doom blade at all and have to run 4 HD mainboard. Don't worry though i will be watching the next few weeks too since I actually adapt my decks to the metagame. So if I see this amazing deck I can be in awe.

lol. cool story bro. you arent as clever as you think you are.

This coming from the guy who runs 3 doom blades and 3 hero's downfall in his orzhov deck then posts in other decks talking about how bad doom blade is and should not be ran. Hypocrticial much?

Damn. Aren't yall the lovely couple. Did any Junk decks make it to top eight? I'm doing junk for standard and im really interested what type of arguments yall could get into on my page lol. i also run 2 doom blades and 2 hero's downfall. http://www.mtgvault.com/solodude1/decks/junk-standard-midrange/ please take a look at it. I really would like some input. in my local game place im literally the only standard player. if i ask my friends they will ask why im running some things instead of others and it just pisses me off lol.

Is Ninja bitching again...?

Solo: I'm really considering running Junk, but really the only think Junk had going was Re-animator I'm pretty sure... and now no liliana of the veil and no Unburial rites. I guess I would try it. You could run Voice of Resurgence which is insanely good and Obzedat's aid and Blood baron, so it has some potential.

personally, i'll take a hit to speed in order to gain that boost to consistency any day, but thats just my personal preference.

I'm switching them in and out at the moment. I'm just pulling sample hands and wont be able to do actual tests till I get home. I'll see how I like it though.

The random hand generator on this website never seems to give me as good of hands as I draw from the same decks in real life. So remember to take the hand generator as a baseline and not as a guiding force.

I would personally, unless you are running a maze's end deck (which no one does) I would run scry lands, they allow to cycle through lands or unneeded cards.

So then no one should run planeswalkers because there is too much planeswalker hate. Might as well just take all creatures out of every deck with that logic...

what a douchebag response to a genuine comment.


of course there are answers to everything, but there are just a lot of answers to Ashiok right now. you clearly want him to be Drownyard, and hes not. not even close.


didnt mean to get you all butthurt with honesty. and your lands are fine. you are a control deck you need to hit land drops.

Wasn't trying to be a douchebag and no I don't want Ashiok to be drownyard. Wasn't even thinking of her like that. Also you didn't get me butthurt but the way you commented made it seem like you were saying no one should run planeswalkers because there are too many answers for them. If I misunderstood you then I apologize. I have Ashiok in here cause I just like her. Him? Thank you for your input though.

if I thought people shouldnt run PW, I would say "you shouldnt run PW." not I dont like Ashiok here. if you arent going to use it like drownyard, then whats the point? the -x? seems like it would be better in the sideboard than the mainboard at that point....

Maybe you're right but I do like the -X. I could just use it on myself if I have too? Really wasn't thinking of using her as Drownyard though but I can see why you or anyone would think that. Like I said though I have to test everything out. If anything it is a utility card that is slowing milling out my opponents resources with the possibility to give me one of their creatures.

you wont have any creatures to bring back, if you use yours right....Obzedat needs very specific things to kill him, and Aetherling should be untouchable if he resolves...

True. If I do decide to take her/him out any input on what I should put in?

more removal. youre control :)

tribute to hunger and Celestial Flare to deal with Hexproof/.indestructible.

Thanks for the input. Greatly appreciated.

NP. sorry for blowing up lol

It happens. Sorry for misunderstanding.

Ashiok should be used with memory adept or to be overly powerful. It puts your opponents on a mill time counter and in my experience milling 13 in a turn stops everything I want to be drawing into almost always and I have play tested with merciless eviction and its a sideboard card. Never did much for me otherwise and don't forget about aggro its still viable and you will need blind obedience side boarded and annul is side board material as well. This is a very powerful control deck however and I don't see to many other things changing in the deck. If ashiok doesn't work go another counter or kill spell and 1 jace adept or something like that. Goood luck with this.

Thanks for your input. I wanted Blind Obedience in the board but couldn't remember it when I made the deck. I took Merciless Eviction out of the maindeck and added a 4th Verdict. I appreciate your input.

If you could comment and maybe point out anything I need to fix in this deck that would be a big help.
http://www.mtgvault.com/fuzzywapiti/decks/boros-aggrosuggestions-plz/

Ashiok isnt comparable to Drownyard, but not because of power level. They have different functions. Ashiok is answer-or-die. VS Midrange, there is a good chance at hitting a creature every time, VS control they have very few ways to deal with it, and a t3 Ashiok will ult before a t7 Aetherling can attack (or even be played sometimes). Vs aggro ashiok is not that great unless you can get it behind something. You have a better chance to hit aetherling off the plus 1 before they draw it as well. Ashiok is NOT drownyard, so don't compare them.

ill make whatever comparisons I like. Ashiok is similar to Drownyard in that it fills the same wincon in the same deck, with a twist.
you people need to be less sensitive. I didnt say it was a bad card. lol

Sorry if i sounded imad (didn't mean to). Ashiok isn't really the same win-con as it though, since it is more relevent during the midrange matchup, and it can provide CA.

its a planeswalker, not a land. all I was illustrating is that it provides the same wincon as Drownyard. of course its going to have more shit it can do, its a PW.

Ninja you suggested tribute to hunger but I think this deck is trying to stay standard and sadly tribute to hunger is gone now :(

Sadly it rotated out today.

@AZ88 you'll have to test your deck in your main play group if you're going to find out if you should keep your PW or not. I used to have a Chandra in one of my old decks but people would kill it so fast it never got past a turn. You just need to see if you can actually do what you want with your card or if it gets removed before you get the chance. It really just depends on your deck and what your typical opponent plays. Also, NinjaStyle612 you're too argumentative.

Blarg, I meant Devour FLesh. I just hate that card.

why hate devour flesh? its nice and fast and it generally doesn't give them more then 3 health unless it takes out something that is totally worth it

because giving the opponent life is counterintuitive. your life total is a resource to you, just as theirs is to them . sometimes that 3 life (or whatever it ends up being) can be extremely relevant. I dont think I should be giving my opponent more resources to use against me at the cost of 1 mana. besides, the only thing you really need to worry about on T2 right now is a Lion. and he cant gain Hexproof until t5, maybe 4 with ramp. I suppose the odd ramped witchstalker could be a bother, but still not worth 3 life (4 if you play it in their turn)

I don't hate Devour Flesh I just hate it for all the reasons Ninja just said. I'd prefer something else over it because that little bit of life your opponent gets could be all they need to hold off late game.

i completely agree with ninja... i hate devour flesh... id rather run thoughtseize and get rid of the nonsense that you can't deal with before they can even cast iT :)

Ninja: I wouldn't say giving an opponent life is counter intuitive, this is why Swords to plowshare is better than Path to exile. Giving an opponent life is really not too much of an issue, in my experience it's just a minor setback but in the long run would you rather them have a Boros reckoner you can't kill because you only have 2 mana or devour flesh it. And yes Far // Away is a great card and I feel the same away about it compared to devour flesh as you do.

Yea I keep hearing about Swan Song and I'm going to play test it. A 2/2 bird isn't that big of a threat comparing to what you're countering. Thanks a lot!

I have thought about Omenspeaker, I have her in my Azorius control deck. Can't seem to fit her in cause I'm not sure what I would take out. I do have a lot of Scry in here as it is though...

I wouldn't cut more than one. Revelation is considered a win condition because it lets you win through 1 for 1's. It also digs for our win conditions. I can see cutting to 3 but not less than that. Personally I run 4 because the other draw options are kinda meh. But they do suck when you have a bunch in your hand early game.

Only reason I run 4 is because the draw options are not as good. Control lost Think Twice which was a bigger hit than anyone thinks. If we had better draw I would run 3 but I'll be fine with 4. Lots of control decks run 3-4 anyways and I don't want to be too heavy on counters.

I run 4 as well for those very reasons. The only card draw we got was read the bones and it costs 3 mana and shocks us.

any thought on maybe Banishing Priest?

Don't really need to run that in this deck. If I exile something with the priest and then I need to verdict the field, they get the creature back that I exiled. Counter productive.

just a thought....

would exile and give you something else to beat people with a stick =) i'm not the best with control a buddy of mine loves to play the control style decks....anyways good deck though =)

right now the deck im trying to work the kinks out of uses dismiss into dreams for control

I played Izzet Control from M14 (I needed Disperse) And remained undefeated until the cycle. The deck ran AEtherling as a primary win con, and Niv Mizzet as a secondary burn being a third and on the odd occasion I won from Snapcaster beats (Augur of Bolas helped). I originally ran the deck with Izzet charm and faithless looting as my only card draw options. Later I added some Think Twice. I understand where your coming from, but I think you are over valuing Sphinx's Revelation. And I recommend considering Pilfered Plans Awesome dig bit you may need to add some more graveyard love. Such being Whip of Erebos remember exiling AEtherling or Obzedat meets the condition of Exiling the creature but their abilities still allow them to return. And gives great reason to play Dimir Charm.

Pilfered plans isn't so bad actually. It's not really about overvaluing sphinx rev. It's just that chaining revs together sometimes makes players concede. The lifegain with the card draw is huge. Don't get me wrong last block I never would have ran more than 3. However the type of control decks I like, the draw and go like playing cards at the end of their turn and sorcery draw power sucks. I guess we have quicken too but it seems gimmicky. Izzet control got some toys to play with though with this rotation.

Decks have placed first running 4 Sphinx's so it isn't unheard of. Not a big fan of Pilfered Plans. Three mana for the opponent to mill two and draw 2 cards at sorcery speed? I'll stick to Revelation. Just my personal preference. It isn't the life gaining alone that makes them concede, you just drew a ton of cards to increase your resources against your opponent. Odds are you got something to hold them off, win the game, or both.

You draw 2 cards. If anything it might be an option over read the bones.

Sorry didn't see that. Idk though I like the scry, regardless of the shock. I corrected the above post. Read the Bones can put you a good 4 turns ahead of your opponent. While Pilfered Plans gives you a card advantage of only 2.

You can mill yourself with pilfered plans. And even after the cycle the graveyard is still a fun place to play.

i have been waiting for someone else to finallt see that fucking card... I LOVE THAT ELK!!! I ran one at my theros prerelease and it would be so powerful....its so great of a card I need to incorporate it into my standard

Thoughtseize is in the board.

I edited my comment extensively :p

I run Syncopate just cause I like it but if I do switch it out then it'll probably be for Essence Scatter or another Dissolve. I have 4 Sphinx's Revelation just for the extra card draw if I need it. Doom Blade still gets rid of a good amount of creatures, regardless of all the multicolor ones out there. It isn't the only removal in the deck and I'm only running two of them. Far//Away isn't that needed which is why I only run one in case it is. Obzedat is still Obzedat and he's still a good card. He isn't my finisher, I have him in there for filler and to be an annoyance. The finisher in the deck is AEtherling, which good luck hitting him.

If Aetherling is a finisher, run 3 since you're not really having too much card draw other than Azorius Charm and Sphinx's

Two should be more than enough and for card draw I have 4 Sphinx's Revelation, 4 Azorius Charm, Jace, Architect of Thought, and Read the Bones.

Thanks for the input. I'll consider the change for Read the Bones but I'd rather not have Thoughtseize in the main deck. It's a good card but I'd rather have removal in the main deck and then switch it out against control.

Read the Bones is fine in the deck. its a scry 2, then draw, which is super powerful. if you never played with Preordain, which was banned in Modern, because it was TOO good in control, I guess you wouldnt understand until you play with RTB. it lets you set up your next two turns, or draw through a bunch of land you dont want.

that card is one of the best in the set.

Yea after play testing I don't want to get rid of Read the Bones. As I said earlier it can put you a good four turns ahead of your opponent. Also why would I go with 2 Obzedat? AEtherling is a better finisher for this deck. I do want Obzedat but just one should be fine.

Obzedat is a just fine finisher, since he's so hard to interact with. He may not be as fast or bitterly untouchable, but he makes up for the life lost from Thoughtseize, which is why I suggested him. Personally, I would still run Thoughtseize maindeck, since control isn't the only matchup it hates out. Keepin them from holding any removal or curving into a great creature is an amazing thing to be able to do regardless. And I don't think Read the Bones is even comparable to Preordain or ponder lol while they are very similar, Preordain and ponder were one mana, and there is very little someone can do to take over a game on turn 1. Also, control decks generally lack one mana cards, so they curve nicely. Read the Bones needs to be cast on turn 3--which is a critical turn since most threats in Standard come down on turn 3 or 4--Domri, Ashiok, Polukranos, Polis Crusher, Desecration Demon, or Stormbreath Dragon, Archangel of Thune, or Kalonian Hydra (with acceleration). Stormbreath Dragon is resistant to a lot of removal. The best example I can paint (although it's not relevant to current standard) is tapping out to read the bones and missing the chance to counter a Geist of Saint Traft from resolving. That is almost always game over.

These are all just my opinions, of course, and are just generated from my knowledge of the format and understandings of the card. Playtesting will prove all, right?

i am playtesting RTB extensively. in my unbeaten Obzedat whip control deck. I will tell you that read the bones on turn 3 is every bit as powerful as Preordain on turn 1. if you dont like the card, thats on you. i stand by my comment about it being one of the most powerful cards in the set.

Obzedat has a lot of answers right now that Aetherling simply gets around. you need a reliable wincon in a deck like this. Obzedat is better as a one of than anything here, unless you have whip to mess with and keep him around. Aetherling is a more consistent wincon in THIS deck.

Just like the card JaceTheMindsculptor knows his shit, thus will reult in a $100 price tag and a swift banning. I'm joking of course. Thoughtseize has, and always will be one of, if the not THE best, discard spells in magic. Besides, doomblade dies to thoughtseize

I'd still prefer an actual removal spell rather than Thoughtseize. It's just my personal preference. Just like I prefer AEtherling rather than Obzedat. The life lost from Read the Bones isn't an issue when you have 4 Sphinx's Revelation. I will do some playtests though and see if it works to my liking.

Yeah because getting rid of a card like master of waves after it's already cast is a better option

Lol not every card will be as easily taken care of as Master of Waves.

That sounds like a completely different deck lol. This is a control deck, this involes haveing control on the battle field with, card draw, enchantments, milling, discarding, and kill spells. While whip of erebos and obzedat would make for a good deck, it doesn't have a place in here

It's the best card no one expected, it's particularly good against aggro decks, as they have small creatures. But yeah I added it just for devotion but it turned out to actually be good. Also, it stopped my friends golgari deck with scavenge.

Thanks for the tip. I'm still testing it out and it works really well but I'm not sure if I needed 2x Ashiok. Still making changes and testing though.

Haven't really thought about putting it in. If it was an instant I would for sure but I think my board is pretty good as it is. Celestial Flare is probably the better choice.

Well glare i figured could be for Heliod and voice of resurgence

I put Glare in the sideboard for my Azorius Control deck. Go check it out.

Yeah i saw posted it will do now that I'm on lunch break haha

I run Celestial Flare Main in most of my WHite decks, Glare is much more versitile, as it exiles a permanent, and getting rid of an Elspeth or Heliod seems like it could be pretty good.

Dam, they really don't look all that different from mine. I like how none of them maindecked Thoughtseize, which I wasn't liking it in the maindeck. I'm going to make some changes now that I've play tested enough. I'll be taking this to FNM once I actually have all the cards. I need to make an Azorius Control deck as well. I saw that one placed first and I completely forgot about Quicken.

It got 2nd actually. Red deck wins got first. Not posted there. He lost because he had mana issues. Variance sucks.

Sorry thought I saw him get first. Second is still pretty good. I put the deck together already.

http://www.mtgvault.com/az88/decks/azorius-control-6/

I did notice that they didn't run Read the Bones and just used Jace, Architect of Thought to filter out their deck. Probably not a bad idea.

Yeah I have 3 but was only using 2. I guess you can get away with 3-4 though.

38 people on this site require crutches... =D

Tell that to the four people who made top 8 running a deck very similar to this build.

As I said before, it's a crutch. Control is an easy style deck that just so happens to do well. Simple minded people play them because they know it'll get them far, which is why so many people play it. I'd be more impressed if those four people played anything else that didn't involve doing nothing for 4 or 5 turns.

Go tell wizards to stop making control cards. Last rotation control was still being played even with everything that was against it. It was extremely skill intensive. I think you're just mad that thragtusk, thundermaw, olivia are gone. Aka your crutch.

How cute. Another Thragtusk hater. Those cards weren't crutches, they were just the better cards to have for Jund. Point is, in my opinion, it doesn't take much skill to play a control deck.

That is exactly what it is. Your opinion. It also makes you sound ignorant. Control takes skill just as aggro does. You have to know what and when to use certain things. Aggro beats down the opponent and control wears out the opponents resources until they can't do anything against it. No deck is greater than the other and just control seems to beat your decks out doesn't make it a bad deck. Get over yourself.

I had a jund deck that's what's funny. And I beat aggro decks all the time. And control decks. Why not whine about jund.

26 lands is required for Esper, actually 27 but 26 is good too. Jace is good card draw and a good fall back plan to stop aggro.

because this isnt UW control, and actually has win conditions?

then put it in the sidebeard. it's a good deck but what if it has to play vs an other control deck? then its just who is first out of cards. and even then its still good to have one in your deck.

there is no need for it in the sideboard, you bring in Gainsay and Sin Collector against other control decks, and count on Mutavault to do your heavy lifting. Elixir is a good card, but not necessary in Esper Control lists.