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Saw a version made by Chris Topher on MTGFanatic.com. So I tweaked it a little and am in love with it. It is quirky and fun. It's not fastest or best deck, but the look on people's faces when they first realize what I'm doing = priceless.
This is a Defense deck essentially. Get the defense running first. Have an En-Kor in play of some type (they all have the En-Kor ability so it doesn't matter which one(s)) and one of the indestructible creatures or Souls of the Faultless. That's your defense. Make it pointless to attack you. Either you have a Stuffy doll or you search for one with Tutor, play it and Voila! Next step to the impenetrable defense is get the Pariah effect on the Doll (with either the artifact or enchantment. The Enchantments are cheaper but if you lose Stuffy you wont lose the Shield so it's situational). The Piece de Resistance is Pestilence. Ping everything, redirect it all onto Stuffy Doll and BAM. Pay three black, have three en-Kor and a Pariahed Doll? 18 Damage to target opponent, for three!!!! They have an infinite life combo? No Problem! Tutor for a Guilty Conscience, throw it on the Doll, and just ping once. Insta-Kill! Stuffy doll deals one damage to itself, and by dealing damage triggers guilty conscience. Guilty conscious deals one damage to Stuffy Doll, Which triggers Stuffy Doll. Stuffy Doll deals one damage to target opponent, which triggers Guilty Conscience which deals one damage to Stuffy Doll. Repeat. For. Ever. Infinite Damage beats Infinite Life.Everything you need is searchable by Tutor. Need land? Grab an artifact land! Need and indestructible creature? Grab a myr! Need any of the rest of your combo? Good thing ALL the pieces are either Enchantments or Artifacts! Now go and wreck!And tell me if you have any ideas! :)
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I do have a question about Order of the Stars. If I'm playing against Red, so I give Order Pro-Red, and my opponent attacks. Will the Pro-Red protect it from the damage redirected to it by any en-Kor I control?
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Redirecting damage doesn't change the source. So, if you redirect damage from a red creature to a proto-red dude, then that damage will be prevented. BTW, combat damage will still combat damage after redirection, damage that was unpreventable (such as damage from a a kickered Uraz's Rage) remains unpreventable, redirected damage from an Incinerate prevents regeneration and so on.
Ok makes sense. Hence I need to be careful about infect and wither. Thanks for clearing it up.
It's good, but you need a way out of the infinite damage combo. Otherwise, the game will never end, and will just be a draw. Good try, but back to the drawing board on that front.
um... what? They will be at 0 life. In 1v1 they have lost. In multiplayer,that player will die, and Stuffy doll will no longer have anything to target. The loop ends. Game continues with remaining players. You don't need to wait for their next up keep or anything, that's mill decks, if they can no longer draw they lose the game. If you have zero life, you're done.Also if youre argument is that the stack never ends and therefore can't resolve then that is also wrong I think: each part of the loop needs to 'resolve' for the next part to activate. When enchanted creeature DEALS damage. When Stuffy Doll is DEALT damage. Eventually there is no one left to damage and the loop ends.
BasilicaNero is correct. According to current rules the loop ends when the opponent received lethal damage because he will die as a state based effect. Padfoot would have been right in 199X when the game only checked for player's deaths between phases (back then you could have negative life as long as you were up in the positives by the end of the step, which allowed the combo-kill of the first true combo deck, "ProsperBloom", as well as the combo-kill via Mirror Universe + City of Brass).
Okay, my mistake, I was unaware of that rule. I kind of live under a rock when it comes to Tournament rules, so I'm sorry.
Very nice concept :) +1 ffrom me!
same here .. although how do youdeal with wither or something? Thats "damage is dealt in the form od -1/-1 counters" right? so the en-kor can transfer them but stuffy cant so hed die right?
Uuuumm... I kind of don't deal with it. Probably put a pariah's shield on other things and hold them off 'til I get Pestilence, I guess. Or if they have a particularly big wither-er I might throw a Guilty Conscience on it.That and Exile kind of kills the combo, but hey, can't beat everything I guess.
Nice to see some good old En-Kor action. You already figured out all the good combos yourself. There is a bit room for improvement, though. On the one hand you have a few redundant spells, I don't think you need 14 En-Kors since a single one is needed in play to do the trick, so there is some room. On the other and there are few things you can't handle:- Tramplers. With trample you only need to assign as much to a blocking creature as you would theoretically need to kill it, the rest can be applied to the face. For this reason I would be hestitant to remove Souls of the Faultless.- As has been mentioned anyhing that give -X/-X. This includes the abilities Wither and Infect.- Flyers. While not a problem per se, you just don't have any and therefore won't be able to block and redirect.- Direct damage to your face from any source (most likely instants and sorceries aka "burn" but there are also things like Black Vise, Stormbind etc.)- You have no removal whatsoever. It's not just that you lack artifact and enchantment killers like so many decks here on Vault (even though every second deck prooves you absolutely need it, this deck being no exception), it's also because there are tons of creatures out there that are problematic for other things than regular combat damage (annihilator from eldrazis for example) or attacking at all (something like Seedborn Muse). And planeswalkers. Don't forget about those!- While Pestilence is great in this I still think it isn't optimal, mainly for it's mana requirements. It's not only double-black, it also requires black to pump. Here are some ideas:* Removal is the easy part because black/white decks have access to the best spot removal in the game, it's just a question of how much money you throw at it. Vindicate is probably what you want and something like Utter End what you can afford :)* There are no flyers with rediction capabilities, however, why redirect if you can suck up all damage? May I introduce to you: Dawn Elemental. It needs 4 white, though, but we have to get rid of the double-black cards anyway.* I highly recommend redirection effects in the form of instants! My favourite would be Simulacrum. This has several advantages:- The opponent doesn't see it coming and might run into his ruin- You are not dependant on having redirectors in play- You can use it on any damage you receive, not just combat damage- After you played the first one the opponent will be very hesitant to deal any further damage to youSimulacrum should replace some of the redundant En-Kors* Wall of Souls instead of Souls of the Faultless to get rid of any double-black* It's not easy to replace Pestilence when you exclude everything with more than one black mana. Best I can come up with is Time Bomb.* Alternatively you could also add a few Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, to end all black mana problems.
Here's a crazy thought: what if I made it White/Red? Earthquake, arcbond, manabarbs, Chandra's Fury, Seismic Shudder, Volcanic Fallout, Bloodfire Dwarf, Cinder Giant, fire ants... Stuff like that. Ooh light mine field.I gonna try a version see what it looks like.
That's what everybody else does, I prefer it black/white. But it's your deck of course^^I'll just warn you, if you go white/red, the deck will slowly shift to something completely else and before you know it, no En-Kors except maybe the Shaman are left. But if you do - don't forget Boros Reckoner.
OK here's my thoughts:A quick White Version:http://www.mtgvault.com/basilicanero/decks/voodoo-doll-white/I like its simplicity a lot. No mana hassle whatsoever.A quick White/Red Version:http://www.mtgvault.com/basilicanero/decks/voodoo-doll-rw/I like that it keeps the FEEL of the original for the most part. Also, I think that using Arcbond on Stuffy Doll when it has Pariah, and I have one en-Kor out, instantly kills ALL opponents. I've reread the abilities very carefully and I'm FAIRLY sure it works.
I might go ahead and mention Spirit En-kor for flyers, that and Pariah works with direct damage to the face and flyers.Also Swans of Bryn Argoll is a nice fill in for a flyer and gives you the ability to redirect to draw ;) I can see the benefit of throwing in some cloudshifts for protection against spot removal, but in my experience trample and negative counters are the hardest counter to these kinds of decks
So all you really need for your infi is guilty conscience and the doll, right?
Technically yes. But ... I think its kind of a boring combo myself, and no fun to play against, so I generally don't use it unless it looks like I might lose. I think the Pestilence combo is lots of fun so I generally just go for that. Also the Guilty conscience combo is kickass in1v1 but multiplayer I still need a second or third stuffy doll any way so its less effective.
Throw in soul link to gain life whenever stuffy doll takes damage.
Interesting ... that would give a stuffy doll a purpose in multiplayer after the chosen player has died and I wait for a second or third one. I like it! I'll need to playtest it but thanks for the suggestion!
You could also throw in a Thrashing Wumpus, pair it with a soul link, then redirect all the damage from your en-kor guys take to a stuffy doll with a soul link for stupid damage and life gain.
That would be redundant to Pestilence. And it would be, like, a 5-card-combo. Remember, whenever you "throw something in", you also have to cut something.
Cool deck! Been thinking about a modern Stuffy Doll with Archangel Avacyn, Boros Reckoner, and Blasphemous Act, glad to see someone else has been playing around with the weird little doll
I wonder how hard this would be to convert into EDH....
interesting thought.... Ive seen edh's with stuffy in them but never focused on it. It could probably be done there are plenty of synergy cards and cards with similar abilities. Not sure what color it would be though, probably W/B/R or some variation.
Very nice deck! I made a very similar deck a few years ago. Mine was built around my budget at the time that's why I don't have "Enlightened Tutor" in there, but here it is take a look. http://www.mtgvault.com/soloran32/decks/pin-cushion/
nice! :) I really like the use of the lands to be able to ping yourself. That's a good Idea, I might playtest it. +1
Out of curiosity, what if you found a way to bounce Stuffy Doll with something like Deadeye Navigator, so that it could target multiple players? Would that actually work, and could you make a deck based on that principle?
If I included a mechanic like that I would probably just sideboard in Cloudshift or something (it's in the colors I use and is significantly cheaper) for multiplayer. As it is I generally find the defense is strong enough to hold of the others until I get more Stuffy Dolls. Between having the playset and the tutors it doesn't take long. I feel like the Soulbonded effect might be good for saving Stuffy from instants but as far as multiple target player changes I'm not sure how necessary it would be.
What do you mean with "target multiple players"? Stuffy Doll can always only target a single player. If you bounce and replay it, it will target a new player but stop targetting the former one as soon as you bounce it.Of course, bouncing it is a way to retarget a Stuffy Doll in multiplayer once it's target has died, but you cannot target more than one at the same time.
That was one of my questions. What if you bounced Stuffy, but not to the point where you had to re-play it? Like with Deadeye Navigator. It exiles it, then immediately returns it, so it shouldn't lose any abilities.
That's the same - when it comes back, it loses all "memory", is fully healed, loses all counters on it, etc. It's as if you get a new creature. With Deadeye Navigator, it even loses it's ability to bounce because it's no longer soulbound.
Right. I would use Cloudshift to change targets because once the original chosen target is dead Stuffy is useless (except as a damage sink). But what about Illusionist's Bracers? Would that work? I don't think so unless you managed to equip it as an instant perhaps...
Nope. The Bracers copy an ACTIVATED ability. But the damage redirection is a TRIGGERED ability. Nice try, though :)
Okay. That's too bad.
ah shucks ... :/ Forgot that distinction. I suppose then the only way I can think of to replicate a triggered ability would be replicating the whole creature, in which case you are probably building a blue stuffy deck with shapeshifters just for multiplayer: not sure its worth it at the end of the day. Especially when you can just run Cloudshifts and Tutors to either get a second Doll or reset the chosen player in multiplayer.
Strionic Resonator is the druid you are looking for :)In this deck it would work with Stuffy Doll and Guilty Conscience but nothing else. Don't know if if that's worth the trouble, though, considering you need to have 2 open mana at the time they receive damage. EDIT:It probably also works on Wall of Souls.
But would it work for a new target opponent? Because the trigger for choosing the target is when Stuffy doll enters play, right? A condition which the resonator does not meet.
It would work, because Strionic Resonator works on any ability with "when."
No wait, I missed the "you may choose new targets" ... my bad.
It's fine. I forget to read full abilities sometimes.
Although would it only copy one instance of the trigger? like it wouldn't copy the Infinite loop of Guilty Conscience because the first round of damage needs to resolve for the next to trigger. Wouldn't the resonator only copy the first instance of the ability being triggered? Because it doesn't say "gains ability until end of turn or anything.
It would keep targeting both players with the infinite loop, because it wouldn't lose the ability until it was bounced or killed.
Holy crap. I see now. That would be ridiculous. Not sure worth it to put it in the deck but maybe side-boarded or something.So the copied ability last indefinitely? That seems OP for 2 CMC. Like If I had a lightmine field and I copy its ability, how long do I have that second Lightmine ability and what would make it go away? When resonator is destroyed? Never? End of Turn?
Nah ... where did you get that infinte thing from? Sometimes I think you make up things while you go^^Let's break it down. Resonator has actually two things it can copy:1) You play Stuffy Doll. Now you have to choose an opponent as a comes-into-play effect which is a triggered ability, so you can copy that effect with the Resonator and choose a second, different player with Stuffy Doll. From now on, when the Stuffy Doll eats damage, two opponents will also get that damage. The second player will stay chosen indefinately.2) When Stuffy Doll receives damage is also a triggered effect, so you can copy this again. You don't select targtes because the damage is dealt to "the chosen player". If you previously copied the come-into-play-effect as described above, this will cause two players to get the damage twice each. Guilty Conscience on Stuffy Doll is an infinte loop in and by itself, Resonator or not. Resonator copies once, nothing infinite there.EDIT:Reminder: The prefixes "as", "when" and "whenever" indicate a triggered ability/effect!
I meant the Guilty Conscience would still be an infinite loop and work with two players, and that's where I got the "infinite" from.
So hypothetically in a multiplayer versus two opponents: I have Resonator out, and I play Stuffy Doll and choose first opponent. I pay 2, tap resonator, and copy the player target ability and choose the second opponent. Next turn I attach a Guilty Conscience to Stuffy and tap it, I start an infinite damage loop which kills kill both of them, right?
Right. Right.
So really the only way Resonator is worth it at all in this deck is if I get one out before stuffy and copy the ability as it comes into play? What if the original Stuffy is exiled and I play a second one? will the copied ability apply to the new Doll or do I need to copy the ability again?
If you have Resonator later you can still use it to copy the recive damage trigger so that the chosen opponent will eat twice the damage. This is irrelevant if you also have Guilty Conscience but if not it might help killing the one opponent. Resonator can also copy Wall of Soul's trigger or Guilty Conscience trigger when placed on something else than Stuffy Doll. So, it's "win more" if you already have the main combo complete but helps winning when you don't get both parts of the combo. You may have to decide of you want to focus on the infinte combo or on the redirecting Kor action.
I prefer the Kor action, because I like the en-Kor and I find the infinite combo to be boring due to limited counterplay. So I generally don't go for it.
I was thinking about something: The Hot Page is stale as american mainstream beer (I know you have great micro breweries, so shut up^^) and the MTGVault team hasn't done anything about the site in years. They promised to change the algorythm of the Hot Page, but they also said they'll bring the forums back "soon". Well, the forums are still down, in fact they were already down when I registered in september 2013 ...So, what I suggest is:If you had a deck on Hot Page and the discussion dried up, you might as well stop listing your deck as public, hence removing it from Hot Page and making room for others. I have currently 2 decks occupying precious slots on Hot Page even though nobody has replied to them in weeks. So, what I will do is make them private soon. I am asking you politely to do the same once you haven't gotten any replies for a considerable amount of time.I will, however, list them again after some time, because otherwise they would end up in Nirvana. But until then other decks will have a shot at Hot Page and meanwhile my stale decks can't get any new Likes (which seems to be the main factor for Hot Page, not the actualy activity), so hopefully it won't immediately hog up Hot Page again.I don't actually expect anyone to follow my example but at least I tried to fix this site.
I'm game. I have two decks on it as well, but I've all the advice I'm looking for on them.