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I fell now that 've been playing this for a year I can say it's as competitive as I can make it.
Do the proper plays which lead to winning.
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That is one weird mother, and at first I thought it to be a joke :D
I'm impressed by the balance of the mana (14 blue and 13 black) which allows the 4 ghostquarters.
The ghost quarters and 4 fetchlands come very close to the optimal "fetchnumber" of 9, making the crab count the most.
27 cards able to mill also seems a fine amount for the deck and the sideboard is balancing the rest of the experience.
I'd like to see you reengage the deck.
Don't mind the "hate" players don't like to lose overall, regardless of what they face, and mill is getting some respect just for being, so join some tourneys and you will get as many good comments as you get bad comments :D
Thanks for your input, when I get board of my other modern decks I may put this back together.
Made a bunch of changes and rebuilt the deck. Would like to know your opinions as of now.
As a Mill Player in Casual I approve :DHonestly I love this deck and the synergies. Well done
Thank you. I've just finished rebuilding it this week. Been doing a bit of test playing against a few of my other modern decks and it's holding up surprisingly well.
Bile blight is a card that I have considered a lot myself, but it demands 2 black mana so your mana has to be able to support it.I have had a long history of playing with river of tears as a means to manipulate my chances of having blue mana as a priority and be able to get black mana when needed. I generally play the river, getting black mana, but during the opponent's turn it's blue, so I can use blue instant stuff. I've also started experimenting with darkslick shores, playing a single one. You might want to try out these lands.In case your meta is seeing a lot of fulminator mages, or other landdestruction I can tell you that 4 mesmeric orb, 4 shriekhorn and 2-4 memory sluice might be of use.Anyways, 2 bile blight and lose the drown.----------------------------------------------------------------Counterspells are usually a bad thing in mill. In general you mill to kill. The less mill you have, the slower you kill. To protect yourself you start to think on how to handle it, and counterspells pop up in your mind, so you remove mill, getting even slower, needing more defence, and soon you've watered the deck out to some weak thing that just get's stumped. If you take a carefull look at all the decklists with modern mill that has ever won top 8, you will notice that discard has a higher successrate with mill than counterspells have it. Test out some inquisition of kozilek for measure and see how it goes. If you insist on mill, either have it in sideboard as a surprize effect or use stuff like remand (which softcomboes with surgical extraction) or spellpierce, these are the best in counter mill.Your sideboard seems more refined, but there is one contradiction.When faced against a creaturedeck you are likely to use blight, which will kill of your crabs or stalkers, while spellskites will survive.The reason for using stalkers is that they bypass creatures, but you also use blight against creatures so one of these "teams" has to go. ditch the stalkers and consider adding creeping tar pit which may not be easy to equip but will fit the idea. (Plus against landdestruction you get some more lands)
Alternately you may use blinkmoth nexus instead of tarpit if you really want to use sword of mind and body.What decktypes do you defeat the most, and which do you lose to more often?
As of right now I've just been doing some play testing with my playgroup and myself. Haven't taken it to a modern event yet but I know my local meta fairly good. It's generally a safe bet to say, any given week I'll be going up against 2 versions of 5 different tier 1 or 2 decks. Ranging from Infect, Twin variations, Discard, Bloom, Company, Zoo, Burn, Creature burn. To name a few. It's pretty competitive and there's usually 15-25 players any given week. Which is why I want to make it as strong as possible before bringing it there. I think your slightly mistaken about the S/B contradiction. Blight would only effect the specific creature and all other with same name for 3. Good against non hexproof things like Tokens, Swiftspears and generally good spot removal with the chance of hitting another copy as well. Damnation would be my choice pick over the Drown in Sorrow so I'll main deck my one copy (swapping it in from my EDH deck). I've found both to be really good against creature based decks which I imagine I will have the most difficulty with. I do agree about the counters and have been thinking that it's not the way I want to play this. I've replaced them with the Orb's which are now waiting for me at one of my local shops. Now that you've mentioned Inquisition which happens to be one of my favourite combos with Extraction from my Discard deck so now I ask where can we squeeze them in???
As well I have been thinking more and more the Sword and Stalker are coming off to cute. Tho I've never actually played them but like the idea.
Hmm! must have misread blight at a time, thought of it as -3/-3 to everything :C It may still have some use against tokens, but should perhaps become sb.As for mesmeric orb I have just been testing it against affinity. And in my own setup I will cut down to 1 mesmeric. (Had 3 against merfolk) and those replaced were replaced with mind sculpt. Affinity has too many ways around the orb. In all cases I've tested within you draw an amount of cards, and the times where you draw more than one mesmeric orb it will mill less than those played first. Enough of these incidences and it becomes measurable. Having 4 mesmeric orbs will statistically degrade one of them to work less like a mesmeric orb and more like a mind sculpt, so a full transformation is justifyable. Consider them as a package where you have 3 mesmeric orb and 1 mind sculpt.When I test I use paperstrips inside sleeves to keep track of each individual millcard and how it performs. I always play out the highperformance cards first so when I draw multiples I can see the effect of a card being played later than the others, which is why I claim 4 mesmeric is 1 too many if you meet merfolk, while 1 is the best number against affinity.Using the same arguments I have some preset numbers you might use:3 hedron crab (When using 4, one performs more like a tome scour) 3 mesmeric orb (When using 4 one performs like a mind sculpt)3 archive trap (The pro's never activate the trap, so 4 dead cards as you die a lot around turn 4)4 tome scour (optimize those surgical extractions)Using my knowledge on topdecks:2 damnation in main2-4 mind funeral. The longer your game takes the more lethal it becomes, but the longer you play the more you draw, so a more controllike deck will use 2-3 of these.a lot of designs exclude breaking//entering for more space. use 0 or 3.
Using the line up as you see now I'm pretty happy with the performance of the deck last night. 2 wins 2 loses.First off went 2-0 against RU twin. Surprisingly easy win after extracting opp's combo pieces turn 2 in game 1 and on turn 1 in game 2. Game two 1-2 against grixis control. All 3 games were a grind fest. Came down to my opponent winning game three with 4 cards left in his library. I learned I need to have answers for delve, Big zombie fish area pain on turn 2 or 3. Probably Leyline of the void in S/B will help. Game three was an easy 2-0 win against some RG brew that wanted to be RG Tron without many of the things which make RG tron strong. Then I lost the final match up 1-2 against BW token control. Again went to the third game one turn away from being able to win. I believe I made the right play but ended up being the wrong move. I played a Mind Funeral while my opp had 11 cards left in his deck while holding on to a Drown in Sorrow. My opp proceeds to turn 4 lands over within 6 cards then I pass and he drops an Intangible Virtue and swings for the win. We then looked at the remaining cards in his deck they had no lands and figured out if I just had patience and played the Drown and passed the turn. My opp would have drawn a land and not have had a spirit to swing with letting my Funeral win the match. After all that I'm really happy with how the deck performed and my piloting of it.Had a great time being the "Mill Guy". LOL
As well I'm debating splashing white for 3 Path to Exile. Other then the obvious use of being able to exile a creature but it will also add the extra search to trigger the Traps. Would do this by adding 2 Flooded Strand, 1 Godless Shrine 1 Hallowed Fountain and 1 Plains. Any opinions on the subject from any one?
Made the changes and am feeling really good with the current build.
I like it, we'll done. Congratulations on a fun build.
There is one miller in modern that used to advocate the esperbuild, and historically he's been the one to win the most with espermill. I have gathered all of his versions into one build by using statistics.Steal his mana, and you should be able to prosper.http://www.mtgvault.com/wickeddarkman/decks/godica-king-of-modern-mill/
This is one kickass Mill Deck!!! +1 for u!Yeeeaaah! This is where the Ghost Quarters should be! We talked about ;)Did u thought about Jace, Memory Adept? I played against a Mill Deck including him few days ago...and he really did a good job.Also Jace's Phantasm would fit in here greatly but i'm sure u already know that - there's just not endless space in our decks right? ;)Like it! Peace out!
Thanks for taking a minute to check it out and the positive feed back. I play tested Jace's Phantasm but it just never worked out for me. With everyone in modern running so much removal it never stuck. I like how this build nearly renders my opp's removal useless. I'd cut Hedron Crab for the same reason but that little bugger simply wins me games and is to good to cut. I've been on the fence about Jace, Memory Adept, I had him then cut him and now I believe I want to run him again. LOL I'm so indecisive sometimes. Thanks again.
Keep data on how well jace works for you, then stay with what works the most :D
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I'm trying to establish a forum for fully competitive millers, and you are within the category.If you know of others worthy of such a forum, give me their name and I'll list them as possible members.First attempt at a layout is here:http://www.mtgvault.com/wickeddarkman/decks/forum-competitive-modern-mill/
Nice, I'll take that as a complement Sir. There's only one other person I've met who would fall into that category but I don't think he's on Vault and I haven't seen him at my local store for about 3 months. We're a rare breed.
I've sent an invitation to 7-8 people in here, and each may possibly know 1-2 others, so it could potentially become a clique of 30+ but with 4-5 different design strategies, leaving perhaps between 3-7 defenders of each type.There are plenty of millers in the vault, but tournament goers seem to be rare or not too talkative about it, so it may look like we are rare, but I think there are plenty of millers and are meeting more and more at tournaments, though most have cookie-designs and does not play that competitive, but they are getting there slowly.WOTC has also consistently produced millcards in each cycle since lorwyn, so it is only a matter of time before the decktype matures.
Been Playing the Painter's Servant Tutelage combo and have been having really good match up against Eldrazi. Surprising myself and others.
Looks okay so far.Lot's of tradeoffs to compensate for eldrazi, but the core is more or less true to the deck.
After some more testing I've decided to cut the combo. While being very effective against Eldrazi it seems to be slowing me down against other decks in the format. Especially when I don't get both pieces in play early on.
Now I'm currently testing 2 Rebuffs in main to protect my Crabs and Orbs.
YOU DARE TO REBUFF THE WICKED!!!I feel "tested" here...What are your thoughts on "invasive surgery" from darkness over innistrad?Someone claimed it was very good at foiling eldrazi, but I just don't see how.Anyways it's a card that I might plant in my own mill-decks, at least as an sb option.
Well I think it will be worth testing out at any rate. Bringing it in against Scapeshift, Or RG Tron, or hitting a Grape shot against Storm. Even tho I've never lost against storm considering this is such a great match up. Lingering Souls would be nice to hit. Now that I think of it, we finally have a really good SB option against Living End which has been a really bad match up.
My main concern is the fact delirium wont trigger that often in this build. Only 4 creatures or 4 artifacts to turn delirium on for me. However an early Orb will help this.
How fast can you build up delirium?
turn 3 consistently.
Do you selfmill for that purpose? (not counting mesmeric orb)The most positive thing about manic scribe is that it bypasses leyline of sanctity, which has only been done by mesmeric orb so far.
I generally never hit myself with a mill card. With all the fetches, 4 Baubles, 4 Mesmeric Orb It's active on T 3 or 4 consistently. Which is fine since Scribe is more of a T4 play along with removal usually. I also really like the Leyline factor you mentioned.
I tested mill versus ad nauseam this morning, and mill would more or less win game 1, so I went on to playing with sideboards.I tested with ad nauseam always having a leyline of sanctity in the opening hand (drawing 6 other cards normally)I also tested with my own hand starting with manic scribe in my own hand. (drawing 6 other cards, but not the 8th)I also exchanged 3 crypt incursion with 3 echoing truth (I usually only use 2 echoes)In general ad nauseam wins this matchup unless you get an early lucky mill and use surgical extraction.I tried out some other configurations, and the most interresting is when you sideboard 3 chalice of the void, but stony silence was also a bit fun, but even then, the major flaw is that you can only beat it through surgical extraction.(weird idea, spoils from the vault to get surgical or archive traps in early games could be a fun idea)Next I tried out affinity, which tends to win unless you draw crypt incursion. 3 chalice of the void coupled with 3 hurkyl's recall was really interresting to play with, but stony silence was also rather cool to slow it down with. I never tried to selfmill to activate manic scribe, but can see the logic in doing so against ad nauseam because you wont target it with anything, so almost the entire deck is dead cards anyways.In general I think more and more about cutting archive trap permanently from my own designs, which is something I have done in the past with okay results.By the way!I'm trying to start up on a pro grixis variant of modern mill.Since the difference between esper and UB is just a pick between path to exile or damnation, then anger of the gods is sort of a hybrid between those two, which calls for a grixis versionhttp://www.mtgvault.com/wickeddarkman/decks/hot-grixis-mill-for-modern/