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Playing in 3v3 games with Liliana's Caress out Burning Inquiry = 18 damage for 1 red. Nocturnus gets +18/+18 and fear for that 1 red mana as well.Turn 1 dark Ritual into a Vampire Nighthawk is always fun too.Spoils of the vault is a great tutor for getting the last piece of the "Turn 3: 40 damage combo" as listed below.
Turn 1 Dark ritual into a Nocturnus.Turn 2 Liliana's Caress.Turn 3 Duress + Burning Inquiry: Nocturnus is now 22/22 Fear + duress takes care of some possible removal. They take 18 damage from Caress swing for 22, combined 40.
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I don't think that would work...Turn 1. Nocturnus.Turn 2. Liliana's CaressTurn 3. Duress + Burning Inquiry. Nocturnus would only be 6/6. He would get +2/+2 from Duress.He would get +2/+2 from Burning Inquiry. I don't think he gets +6/+6 from Burning Inquiry. The card says whenever he is forced to discard a card, Nocturnus gets +2/+2. The card doesn't say, "whenever he is forced to discard a card, Nocturnus gets +2/+2 FOR EACH CARD DISCARDED."I could be wrong. Same thing with Liliana's Caress. If you play Burning Inquiry...opponent only loses 2 life. So...with above combo. Turn 3. Your opponent would take 4 damage from Liliana's Caress (2 damage from duress, 2 damage from Burning Inquiry) and your opponent would take 6 damage from Nocturnus. 10 damage total. Not 40. Again, I could be wrong.
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All cards drawn and discarded are done one at a time, even if its not made blatantly clear like thats how it is. A "draw three cards" spell is just draw one..draw one..draw one. I'm Very sure it works this way. It triggers for every discard.
Oh...shit. I made pretty much the same deck, last year. And my friends said it did not work. They said Liliana's Caress does damage when you discard, not for every card. Like Mind Twist. I pay and make you discard 4 cards. They said Liliana's Caress makes opponent lose 2 life. Not 8. They said to make my opponent lose 8 life I would have to play 4 DIFFERENT discard spells. That it works by whenever an opponent discards cards, they lose 2 life, not 2 life per card. They say for Liliana's Caress to work like how you want it to, it needs to read,"Whenever an opponent discards a card, they lose 2 life for each card discarded."But instead, Liliana's Caress reads like this, "Whenever an opponent discards a card, they lose 2 life."There is nothing in the wording that says "2 Life for each card."I made a deck with Hellfire Mongrel, Terminate, Lilana's Caress, Burning Inqury. They said it did not work. Maybe they are wrong. But if they are wrong, and you are right, then My deck would of worked!! And I would ask you to consider Hellfire Mongrel and Terminate.
Hellfire Mongrel is a sideboard card for now, I cut down the deck a lot as is. In the format I run people have a lot of draw power anyways
Okay, okay. My friends were wrong.You are right. My bad.So, change your creatures out. They are too slow. Consider Hellfire Mongrel and Ravenous Rats. Same with Mind Twist. It is so freaking slow. I bought 4 of them for 15 bucks. And they suck. Way too slow. By the time I have 4 or 5 mana, my opponent is out of cards anyways. So something like Funeral Charm. Or Wrench Mind is faster. And going to remake my deck like this, now that i know it does work.
I play 3v3 casual, they arent slow at all in that format. Mind Twist is great for making someone discard 4-5 cards at random. The random part is what I like best
As for Mind Twist in and of itself-"The first card the DCI EVER Restricted to one per deck was Time Walk, and at the time, you could still have 4 Ancestral Recalls and so on, and then after a while, they added more cards to it. But Mind Twist flat out Dominated. They actually banned it in Type 1 for a long time because the whole card advantage thing"
Yes. It rocks. Highly rated. But it is slow. Like i said, I bought 4 of them, thinking they were awesome. Got my butt handed to me, over and over. They are too slow.
In the format I play with friends Hymn to Tourach is pretty nasty, it's more or less the same card but it can be used with extra mana if I wanted to. But i do see what you mean, you need mana ramp to make it worth wild most of the time.
Yep. Like this. You play stuff like Funeral Charm, Blackmail, Hymn to Tourach, Cabal Therapy. Plus your opponent is going to be playing his own stuff like Lands/creatures/artifacts.So...by the 4th or 5th turn...when you are finally able to play Mind Twist...your opponent should already be out of cards anyways. So really, Mind Twist is ONLY GOOD LIKE ON THE SECOND OR THIRD TURN, WITH A DARK RITUAL. If it isn't the second or third turn, and you don't have dark ritual...then Mind Twist sucks. It is easier, and faster to make your opponent discard with cheaper spells. For example. To make your opponent discard 2 cards with Mind Twist, you have to pay 3 black mana, right? Hymn to Tourach does it for 1 mana less. So does Chain of Smog. To make your opponent discard 1 card with Mind Twist, you have to play 2 black mana, right? Duress, Cabal Therapy, Black Mail, Funeral Charm all do that for 1 mana less.It is too slow. It was the bomb when it first came out and there wasn't many discard cards. Now there are dozens to choose from, that are faster than Mind Twist.Not to preach, but with discard decks, that faster they are, the better chance that have at not allowing your opponent to play stuff in his hand.
I see your point, realistically for 3v3's theres no way to make them all discard all of their cards. It's mainly to shut down one or maybe two people who are looking to do combos/make big plays. If a game goes long it's not hard to see mindtwist coming out big. I do see that it's not practical though, I figure that and sign in blood arent really needed. But I don't really need creatures in here either, if anything I'd add 4x megrim.The decks purpose is to cause damage via discard, not really to make them discard for the sake of card-loss.. if that makes sense. So BULK discard is my goal, to cause damage.