Enduring Ideal

by Couch312 on 30 July 2020

Main Deck (60 cards)

Sideboard (15 cards)

Submit a list of cards below to bulk import them all into your sideboard. Post one card per line using a format like "4x Birds of Paradise" or "1 Blaze", you can even enter just the card name by itself like "Wrath of God" for single cards.

Deck Description

A pile of my pet cards to play at FNM approximately 3-4 years ago. Whenever Amonkhet came out.

How to Play

Buy time with leylines, Runed Halo, and Porphyry Nodes to cast Enduring ideal to get Form of the Dragon and Phyrexian Unlife.

Deck Tags

  • Modern
  • Tier 7
  • jank

Deck at a Glance

Social Stats


This deck has been viewed 216 times.

Mana Curve

Mana Symbol Occurrence


Deck Format


NOTE: Set by owner when deck was made.

Card Legality

  • Not Legal in Standard
  • Legal in Modern
  • Legal in Vintage
  • Legal in Legacy

Deck discussion for Enduring Ideal

Yeah, I'd sideboard 9 cards in.
3 echoing truth
3 extirpate
3 force of negation

I'd side out:
1 damnation
2 darkblast
3 oona's prowler
1 archive trap
1 fraying sanity
1 Merfolk secretkeeper.

What would you sideboard in and out ?

Posted 31 July 2020 at 05:23


Hmmm, not sure. I'm pretty sure the sideboard would be different for the new modern meta. For the sake of the hypothetical game I'd side in the 4th wheel of sun and moon and 2 eyes of the wisest, taking out 3 porphyry nodes.

Like I said though, this isn't supposed to win tournaments or anything, just a pile of cards I enjoyed playing at fnm to catch people off guard. An updated list would probably be blue white with less enchantments in favor of things like detention sphere, force of negation, serum visions, 3 mana teferi and 3 mana narset.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 12:54


In this match, my advantage is through your graveyard.
By removing all graveyards you ensure I can't use surgical and extirpate.
Wheel of sun and moon folds to extirpate, so rest in peace would be better.

This is a game where I'm unlikely to win, so my efforts will be directed at preventing you from winning.
My best bet to win will be through dovescape by having a bridge in play and only attacking when I have most doves

Using explosives and echoing truth to control the populations. If I can manage to get two chancellors in play and echoing truth them I'm likely to win after a reset dovescape. Playing 4 chancellors in a row would be my thing.

A thing I forgot when I recklessly challenged you was to get you to pick an aggro deck, because my deck has only evolved into what it is by facing aggro, so it's sort of in deep deep waters ;)

I'd like to say it's far more resistant than I thought it would be.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 14:13


Why does Wheel of Sun and Moon fold to Extirpate? It's does the same thing as Rest in Peace in that it is a replacement effect. The card never hits the graveyard to be targeted.

You'd also have to deal with Phyrexian unlife if I have a form of the dragon or solemnity out. Which becomes harder if I've found a greater auramancy. With 2 Auramancy my permanents are untargetable by either of us, so yay. I know I would try really hard to Nevermore the Explosive Engineering. A lot of games boil down to who decks first, and with Gaea's Blessing, Sun and Moon, and Mistveil Plains, I usually don't.

Also, Ensnaring Bridge is useless against me. I usually never find Starfield, I was going to cut it before I quit modern. And I know it looks like Dovescape counters the Enduring Ideal to give me 7 birds, but it doesn't. Epic simply puts the spell on the stack, it doesn't cast it, giving Dovescape no chance to counter it. Kind of like how storm doesn't cast the storm copies.

That being said, I personally haven't played against much mill, so I don't know how the matchup plays out. I have played this plenty against Burn, Infect, Valakut, Storm, Bogles and Dredge, which was the meta at my lgs when I played modern. The addition of Force of Negation to the modern format will probably push this deck out entirely. Turns out if you just counter my Enduring Ideal the deck becomes really bad, and Boseiju isn't always around.

Also this deck cannot beat Tron. Ugin, Karn and Oblivion Stone are really good against the all colored permanents deck. I used to sideboard Bribery and Negate to pretend I had a chance against tron, but I gave up on that a while ago.
It also doesn't do anything against blue white control. Counterspells are really good against this deck. Also, this deck is really slow, which benefits control more than me.

Aggro with a lot of differently named cards is also decent against me since Runed Halo is often how I protect myself against aggro. I used to run Ghostly Prison, but Porphyry Nodes did most of what I wanted to do anyway.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 14:46


I mean, Dovescape makes non creature spells into doves, so Echoing Truths, Engineered Explosives, and most ways to deal with on board enchantments will no longer resolve.

I think Mill just wants to focus on speed more than anything against this deck. Just try to hit all those chancellors and surgical the gaea's blessing with the trigger on the stack. After that as long as you deal with Wheel of Sun and Moon I think you got it.

I know this deck looks like it targets mill, but that was never my intention. I've never played this against mill, and as I said, a lot of rounds in games 2 and 3 boil down to who decks first. There have been several matches that my opponent managed to exile my Form of the Dragon which left me with no way to realistically win, but I've named the cards on nevermore and runed halo that would have been their out or I just have dovescape with 2 auramancy in play and Phyrexian unlife and Solemnity. I wanted to make sure that I would never deck myself.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 15:27


You are right on moon/sun, the cards never touches the grave. But you should at least go all in on gravehate to stop the surgical/extraction.

It all boils down to whether or not you start with leyline of sanctity in play. When someone uses 4 of the same cards in a deck, the odds of starting with one is less than 41% I don't remember the precise % but it could be a lot less than 41% but it isn't 41, which means that I will get an opening in minimum 59% of the games.
Now how many cards do I have that can start disrupting your gameplan?
I got 7 cards that can mill your top of at least 4 cards, and after sideboard I got 6 cards to remove keycards.
It will be you, thats racing to stop my gameplan. I got 4 turns to wreak havoc and get my first force of negation.
My first priority will be cards that remove the graveyard, because if that happens I can't win. Second comes gaea's blessing.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 20:44


So turn 1, I'll probably get some random selection into your grave.
Turn 2 I'm likely to play mesmeric orb because I see no threats, or it will be glimpse the unthinkable.
Since sun/moon doesn't cover the cards already in the graveyard, I'll get a stock of cards to work on with surgical/extirpate, which means the second you get sun/moon it will hit play. Next logical step will then be to deal with it with engineered explosives.
Can you agree with that logic ? And what would your counteract be?

Posted 31 July 2020 at 21:31


I mean, if you mill a Gaea's Blessing at any time it shuffles my grave back in, and unless you have a surgical in hand it's going to keep happening. I can also use Mistveil Plains to put cards in my grave back into my deck.

I'm not so good at the hypothetical matches. I'd rather grind out 10-12 matches in paper. It's difficult to determine how games will go since there is a level of randomness to the game. What I draw in my opening hand, what you mill. So on and so forth, and even with 4 surgical in the main, sometimes you just don't have it when you need it.
I also just assume I'm going to lose when I play this deck. Any victory is a pleasant surprise.

New mulligan rules makes it easier for you to find surgical, but it also makes it easier for me to find leyline. This deck used to be really bad at mulligans, but now mulling to 5 for a few specific cards isn't so bad.

Statistics and percentages can only get you so far when deciding who would win a match. That's part of Magic's charm. You can try to solve it, but at the end of the day, it's a game of luck. We do our best to make our decks as consistent as possible, but, nothing will ever change the fact that in Magic, it's better to be lucky than good.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 22:11


That's probably why I've been enjoying commander more and more lately. Anything can happen and it focuses on the part of the game that I enjoy the most, the social aspect.

I don't play magic to go to fnm to crush the opposition to win prizes. I go to play magic with others and to have a good time. Which is why you see so many of my decks have sub-optimal choices. I'm just trying things out as I talk to my opponent. 8 dollars for a night of entertainment is my only goal at FNM. Although, as anyone should admit, winning is nice, it's not the main reason I play.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 22:23


In the case of gaea's blessing you have a high number of them, which increases the odds of them being milled, but blessing is just a means to slow me down.
The real threat to me is the lockdown of surgical/extirpate. Once they are out of the equation blessing makes you immortal. Which is why my first target to extract is the wheel.

I say I have the better odds, you call out luck, sure, I'll lose to luck any day, who wouldn't.

The start of this conversation was triggered after I told alfred that it isn't what you side in against mill, it's what you side out. I'd like to errata this with a "most of the time" in front, because I do believe that you would stand stronger with rest in peace in the deck also. Because it takes just 1 surgical extraction to remove all the wheels.
A good part of my deck is based on reusing my own grave, I'd be crippled on that point as well as you, and when all is said and done my mill is pretty lazy if it can't access the grave.

In the other hand if I have access stream of thought let's me replay engineered explosives and surgical over and over.

None of us may win game 1, but I'm pretty sure I'll have you at game 2 and 3 unless you go with rest in peace.

I'm telling you how to win... not how to loose.

(Then of course, by doing that, I win the argument that most people don't know how to sideboard against mill)

Posted 31 July 2020 at 22:53


I'm willing to believe if you say you have the better odds. You say you put in hundreds of tests with your decks, so I'm willing to believe what you say about this match up.

I do firmly believe that Rest in Peace and Wheel make no difference as far as this particular match up is concerned. I mean, if you mill Rest in Peace with Surgical in hand, you just take that. Rest in Peace might be marginally better than Wheel, but not enough for me to care about. So yes, I'm calling out luck. It depends entirely on what you see when you mill. It is also dependent on whether or not I see a Leyline in my opening hand, or do I see a Leyline but you see your chancellors and don't hit a gaea's blessing, giving you time to remove them with extirpate? Do I find Nevermore before you cast Engineered Explosives? Do I find Greater Auramancy to make it difficult to interact with my permanents?
Or, do I get the hand I need to cast Enduring Ideal on turn 4?
Or, do you just 2 Chancellor and 2 surgical and take out all my win conditions before I even get a main phase?

If you want to know what my counteract would be it simply depends on how lucky you get with your milling, or how unlucky I get if you want to look at it like that. All I can hope for is put down a leyline and get a Mistveil Plains on board as fast as possible and just wait for you to try to surgical things so I can respond by putting the target back into the deck.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 23:13


I recently told alfred that the speed of mill is pretty fast.
At turn 1 I mill 4, at turn three I mill 8-10, at turn 3 I mill around 12. That's minimum 22 cards and you would have drawn 9 cards, total of 29 cards left in your library.
That means that you have 10 cards available to you, while I have access to extract what's equal to 3 hands in your library.

But if you are lucky you win.
I get it...

Posted 31 July 2020 at 23:27


You don’t have to bring me into all conversations, you should have said I believe that speed mill is fast, or speed mill is fast at turn 1 I mill 4 etc.

Posted 01 August 2020 at 02:15


Well he entered our conversation on you elemental deck, so I felt you were still part of the topic :)

Let's call it a draw, alfred won't choose side :(

Posted 01 August 2020 at 05:12


Should you maybe add enchantments like gift of paradise or dryad of the ilysian grove?

Posted 31 July 2020 at 12:26


Idk, maybe. I haven't played modern in at least 3 years. This is just an old list.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 12:46



Posted 31 July 2020 at 15:59


Why not add [Paradox Haze] and [Reverberate] or another copy spell to double up on the effect of [Enduring Ideal]?

Posted 31 July 2020 at 17:21


I've found that paradox haze is incredibly win-more, unless I load up on more upkeep triggers it has been unnecessary when I've tried it. Copy spells mean I would need at least 9 mana of 2 different colors, which is really hard to do in 60 card decks.

Posted 31 July 2020 at 18:02


That makes sense. I thought getting out [Enduring Ideal] was the win-con or at the very least the enabler so [Paradox Haze] would be effective.. Is [Leyline of Anticipation] too much to play out on your opponent’s turn? [Pernicious Deed] is optionally good removal as well.

Posted 01 August 2020 at 02:12