Discussion Forum

My experience with multiplayer (which I play a lot) is that every few turns poeple reset the board (as in Akroma's Vengeance, Oblivion Stone, Planar Cleansing, Austere Command, ...) which is really bad for enchantment based decks. The only really good enchantment that makes people think twice about resets is Karmic Justice and even that just slows people down until they find spot removal.

I would trim down the amount of enchantments you play by a lot and play something like Replenish to recover from sweeps. I would also try to make the deck curve better. You're mana acceleration is all temporary and will be destroyed once people reset the board. It's better to accelerate using cards that increase your land count.

Thanks for you input. The group I play with doesn't play a ton of board clearing cards really, my biggest worry with that is a tranquility. I will go ahead trim some of the enchantments. I have the sterling groves in there so that has to be the target of any disenchant type spells, which do get played quite a bit, and I try to keep the one mana open to search for another enchantment when it gets destroyed. What would you suggest for the mana acceleration, something like harrow? I definitely like the replenish for this deck and I like the karmic justice in general, I have a few decks with white in them where that could be useful. Thanks a lot for the suggestions.

Okay, I've made some changes to the deck based on your suggestions. I also took out a couple of the mana creatures and added a couple others as better blockers. I think part of why there's not a lot of reset happening in our group is that about half the games we play are usually some sort of team or allied games and people don't really like it when their partner is destroying their permanents.

Harrow isn't very good, it's instant but that's about the only benefit and in most decks that doesn't matter. It's useful if you're playing landfall.

Your usual good land accelerators are Sakura-Tribe Elder, Solemn Simulacrum, Cultivate, Kodama's Reach. If you play duals or just a lot of forests there are a few very good ones that get forests like Skyshroud Claim and Seedguide Ash.
The new Burnished Hart is pretty good and very abusable with Sun Titan.

As far as multiplayer goes Boundless Realms is pretty broken. I didn't like it at first but now that I play it it's just crazy. Best accelerator ever in a deck that can draw cards and maximize the use of its resources each turn.

If your friends don't play sweepers that might be a good place to start for your next deck. Punish them for playing decks that build up a complex board position. If they don't expect it it must be good.
Besides multiplayer games with complex board situations are the worst as no one can really commit in fear of retaliation once their open.

As for your current deck I would probably play around

- Purphoros (as you already do)
- Vicious Shadows (which is a very good finisher)

both are in the same colors so that's a great start

- Eldrazy spawn creators will be awesome for both win conditions. cards like Emrakul's Hatcher, Eldrazi: Kozilek's, Nest Invader

- a single Kiki-Jiki Mirror breaker will make the deck better
- something like Goblin Bombardment might be good
- a Wild Pair or 2 might be awesome
- Bloodbraid Elf is obviously good

anyway, lots to play around even in a 2 color RG build

PS: just ordered Purphoros on ebay for my Prossh, Skyraid of Kher Commander deck. that card is sooo good as long, to good as long as you don't have devotion. Once you have devotion he becomes easier to remove.

Thanks, you've given me a lot to think about :D I forgot about skyshroud claim, I'll put a couple of those in there since I already have them. The sakura tribe elder would be a good early blocker that I could then search for land. The nest invader would be useful too to move things along early. I like the burnished heart with the sun titan, I think I will do that in my mono white deck.

You pretty much described a lot of our games-standoffs. Yeah, maybe I'll build my next deck to speed things up a bit.

I like purphoros in this deck because I most likely will never get the devotion to red.

I appreciate you taking a look at the deck for me and the great suggestions.

And boundless realms would be great late in the game when you want to be drawing things other than land. I'll have to see if I can squeeze that in too.

[QUOTE=natlee]And boundless realms would be great late in the game when you want to be drawing things other than land. I'll have to see if I can squeeze that in too.[/QUOTE]

I've played commander games where I played boundless realms as early as turn 5 setting me to 14 lands when my opponent only has 5. Games like that are utterly rediculous. I've follow up plays like that with constant card draw enabling me to use all my land every turn. You end up playing games where one guy is still playing one spell a turn when you are playing 4-5 spells a turn or more and still end every turn holding 7 cards or more with reliquary tower and the likes.

Haha, that is pretty broken. What kind of stuff do you use to keep your hand full?

Well I play a lot of Commander (Singleton) and I have many decks so all sorts of cards

- Greater Good, Garruk, Primal Hunter
- green stuff like All Suns' Dawn and Praetor's Counsel
- blue stuff like fact or fiction, Recurring Insight, Foresee, Braingeyser, Blue Sun's Zenith, Stroke of Genius, Consecrated Sphinx
- Well of lost dreams
- Seinsei Divining Top + Future Sight combo
- gold cards like Twisted Justice, Cruel Ultimatum, Urban Evolution
- I use a lot of creatures that draw me cards as they are easy to abuse
- easy stuff like skullclamp
- I like Etched Oracle in 5 color builds
- Decree of Pain is always great :)

like I said, to much to list


PS: I forgot to mention Fecundityfor your build, if you play the eldrazi spawn creatures and other token generators with a sac outlet you can really turn Fecudity into a huge advantage for you while it's doing very little for the rest of the board. Even a Sakura becomes even better then it already is.

We have a friend who plays Commander, but I never have. I'd like to try that out. Thanks for the list of cards, I'll definitely check them out.

I did squeeze a Fecundity into my deck too along with an Awakening Zone, so I'll see how that goes.

I made some changes to my mono white deck too based on some of the things you mentioned yesterday, but now I have almost 80 cards in there and obviously need to get rid of at least 15 probably. If you get a chance, would you mind looking at that one too? I think have a lot of cards that are way too expensive to cast, but I can't decide what to get rid of, especially things like the Avacyn, Angel of Hope. It would be nice to have her out there while I reset the board, so then it's only everyone else who gets reset, but she does me no good if I can't get her out. The sideboard isn't really a sideboard right now, just cards I've taken in and out of the deck. Thanks

http://www.mtgvault.com/natlee/decks/white/

I would play 4 Fecundity if I were you, it's your main draw engine and you want immediate access to it provided you can easily sac your creatures. Something most players can't.

I used to play multiplayer using regular decks, I even used to play 60 card decks but that got very boring very fast and in my opinion 60 cards is bad in multiplayer. 60 cards is optimal for 1 vs 1 games where a liniar strategy is enough to win. Liniar strategies don't work in multiplayer, there's just to much going on, to many players doing broken stuff.
80 to 100 cards seems optimal but we often went beyond that. I enjoyed playing a 250-300 card deck. The fun about it was that I only needed one deck that was under constant development. As long as your mana base, mana acceleration, mana fix, card draw, and other numbers are in balance the amount of cards doesn't really matter all that much. The benefit of many cards is that you can adapt your strategy, tutor for solutions you need. Basically build a bigass solution/control deck. Biggest deck I saw someone play was my friends 1700 card deck that he played for years.

Now everyone I know plays Commander so I only have those now. 100 card singleton is easy to build once you get a feel for it.
The only format I play 1 on 1 competitive is legacy which is a nice variation from Commander as it is a totally different game almost. I also enjoy cube draft but I don't get to play that much as it means getting 8 people together and dealing with people cancelling last minute and such and I got fed up with that.


For the white deck I would suggest if you play UrzaTron you at least dip another color that can help fix your Tron. Traditionally both blue and green have been used to do just that. You can dip blue for Compulsive Research, or Green for Sylvan Scrying and Primeval Titan. In pure artifacts you have Expedition Map that can fetch any land.

Aside from that your deck looks very random and all over the place at first glance. Try to focus your strategy, be clear about what you're trying to accomplish. You can start going crazy once you firmly grasp the basics of deckbuilding.

Wow, I can't see playing such huge decks. 1700 cards?! Crazy. But, I will try not to worry so much about how many cards are in the deck. I just don't usually play cards that speed up my draw, so I felt like the more cards I had the less likely I was to draw what I needed, so I guess I should focus more on my tutoring and drawing and less on how many cards I have. With the white deck, my focus is to destroy everything, namely creatures, that everyone else has while my creatures survive. I put Elspeth in there to produce creatures to sac to the Eldrazi Monument until I can get out the Avacyn. I did put some Expedition Maps in there, thanks. I think I will just have to play it a bit and see how it goes.

Well I do suggest you try to play 60 for now for two reasons

- poeple understand 60 and will be more willing to help you deck build.

- the landcount and mana resources of 60 card decks can be compared to other 60 card decks and poeple usually have a feeling or even a system for what works and what doesn't. Landbase and resource management gets complexer the bigger your deck gets and you should only attempt going there once you understand 60 card decks and are successful at optimizing them.

Thanks a lot for all your input and suggestions. I have the enchantment deck sitting at about 80 cards right now and the white one at about 75. I'm going to play them this weekend to get a better idea of what works and what doesn't to trim them down. Thanks again!