Budget Decks: Pillowfort

Definitely. It has been online like, two minutes.

By the way, anyone know any good budget boardsweeps in white?

Day of Judgment is pretty cheap.

planar cleansing is good and fairly cheap.

Hour of Reckoning is pretty nice too, but doesnt affect tokens

End Hostilities is cheap as chips too, and if you got blue in there too, all about that supreme verdict

Nevinyrral's Disk

That would completely ruin all the work to build his enchantments

Azor's Elocutors is great for the deck but would be completely useless against half the decks out there any instant or sorcery card aimed at the player would take a counter of Azor's Elocutors.

then you have the option of running either aegis of the gods, or some counter spells to prevent that.

or better yet, aegis of honor. :)

My guess is that isperia is for if propaganda and sphere of safety aren't drawn early on. it gives a pretty significant deterrent for attackers I think, as nobody likes to give their opponent cards. it is very much a win-win situation for whoever has isperia out. even with propaganda. because it makes them hesitate on both the mana cost AND the draw. do you really want to give your opponent more weapons?

however, any moat cards would be decent as well. but thy should be in the same vein as propaganda. still allowing the opponent to attack, but making him pay for it. a personal favorite is Norn's annex. :) particularly if they aren't running white.

Its great, but I thought that was the key card in non-budget pillowfort list?

it is 2 euros a piece, it is not a really cheap card, but it could fit in a smaller budget if you stick with one. Also, it is about giving inspiration. And I really like that card ^^

It is a great card! I didn't realise that it was so cheap! It would be great in this deck!

Ghostly Prison just costs like hell.

Man... Sorry mate.
I don't mean to anger anyone around here. I just love playing budget and crafting decks. People just seem to like the way I craft decks. When I create a new deck, it is almost instantly at the Hot Page. I cannot do much about it. I can craft a couple fewer decks for the next few days so they should vanish.

Sounds to me like someone is jealous that they don't get that much attention...

AlleywayJack, how would you build a budget deck?

Northy i wouldnt worry about it if i were you. You helped me into magic, something i am eternaly grateful. Like your profile pic says,"haters gonna hate." He just jelly.

suck a big fat magic dick buwalda, this deck blows, just like the last 100 decks on this page. Whats so good about this deck? what does it do against equally shitty decks? how does it win, and better yet, who has the patience to wait that long? Answers in order: Its not, nothing, it doesn't and no one.

You are being sarcastic when you ask how this deck wins, right?
4/4 flyers and 6/4 flyers is how.
He stalls his opponent with counter, walls, control via Sphere/Propaganda.
This is how many pure mono blue decks won back in the day.
They are slow and outdated now, but this deck does indeed have it's basis in a try and true place.

If a 6/4 flyer can't win you the game, what can?
And if Serra Angel is truly outdated to cards like Baneslayer...to the point of now sucking balls...that makes this a sad day. Serra Angel will always have worth.

And I am with Kazzong. With a 20 dollar budget...what can you AlleywayJack and mymobbsdeep make?
I like both of you guys. Jack and Deep. But a deck like this brings back memories of the good old days of magic.
+1 from me.

Look forward to your decks AlleywayJack and mymobbsdeep.
In specific, I want you guys to make a mono red budget deck and/ore a mono white budget deck.
I have a blue one already (bounce with Zephid's Embrace and Cephalid Constable)
A green one already (the land destruction deck, you remember AlleywayJack?)
I have a black one already (Spudshaver's Wall of Blood deck).
I need a mono red.
I need a mono white.

Good luck guys!!
Apparently you guys will not need it because you think this decks sucks...so what you can make I am sure will be lots and lots better. Especially since you have a budget of 20 dollars. The sky is the limit with that huge amount! Not trying to be an asshole...but that is just it. It is 20 dollars. I am sure your point is that you are tired of seeing 20 dollar casual decks at the top of the Hot Pages. I get that. But it is what it is. So, it is up to you. Let us see what you can make.

http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/budget-mono-white-pillowfog/
This is my latest piece of poop.
Hope you have fun ripping it apart.

yesssss jessie i love you, making it a challenge. And yes serra angel is just a decent card at this point. does nothing the turn you play it, has no protection, or etb affects, its just a 4/4 for 5 mana. its just decent, not great, or awesome and far from amazing.


oh and since when is 4 counterspells going to protect your only 5 threats in the whole deck? sounds like a bad plan to me

I always defend Northy. And I love you too Deep! :)
It is a very love hate relationship.
I do hate that sometimes it does not seem fair that really great (expensive) Modern/Standard/Legacy tourney worthy decks do not get likes on here.
I do hate that the website is saturated with budget decks. Decks that could be very much better if money was thrown at it. Maybe 1 out of 100 Budget decks, will you find, that money is not the answer. And for those few decks, I love the Idea of Budget. But 99 out of 100 budget decks are just neat little decks, nothing more.
With that said...I very much love Northy and he can always count on me.

I can not honestly say that anyone has looked at one of my decks and thought, "Wow, this Magic the Gathering thing looks neat and cheap to start playing."

Most people on here can't say that.
But Northy can.
He has shown people that Magic the Gathering is
1. Fun
2. Interactive
3. Challenging
4. That there are millions of card combinations which to choose from
5. And that you don't need 1000 dollars to play the game.

Northy to me is like a gateway drug.
A gateway drug that leads new Magic users down the long road of Magic addiction.
It starts out small...learning the mechanics of the game with cheap 20 dollar decks...and before you know it you are paying for 4 Dark Confidants.

His decks are also very sound.
He teaches new players that too.

His decks usually have the basis of a good solid deck.

His decks are budget, true.
But they do show the very basics to people.
Again, look at it like this.
Take 2 budget decks of each color, that Northy has made. 2 mono green budget decks. 2 white, 2 blue, etc etc.
Then ask the person that looks at the green decks to describe what he thinks green does:
He will say: they play big creatures, they pump up the big creatures, they use mana ramp and speed, they win through attack.
And that person would be right.
Or ask that new person what he thinks blue cards do best after looking at 2 of Northy's blue budget decks:
He will say: they play control, they draw lots of cards, they use flyers, counterspells, etc.

I WOULD LOVE for people to step out of their boxes.
I would LOVE to see Northy make a 1,000 dollar Modern tourney deck as much as I would love to see someone who takes themselves very serious like Phyrexian Possum make a 20 dollar budget deck.

LETS DO THIS! Budget decks for all the spoiled rich kids and $1000 decks for all the charity cases! i am gonna try to make a nice little budget mono white, simply because i find red to be entirely boring as a lone color. Il share it when i do so, thought probably not tonight. Love the challenge, and sorry to say but this deck still sucks Northy :(

As you wish people! I'll create a deck with 1000$ budget soon enough.
People can say about it whatever they want. (Like my every other deck too.)

Thanks Buwalda and Jessie. You are both awesome.

Can I throw in as the previous menace, it's not about the price it's about the quality

It is always about quality. I dont give two shits about a deck being budget if its got quality.

If you think i'm jealous of some kitchen table casual ass magic player you're smoking crack

I am proud to be a kitchen table casual magic player.
Those type of games are always the most fun.

Tourney decks where, back in the day, you watched your opponent have one turn take 20 minutes while he beat you with a Tolarian Academy/Stroke of Genius deck...that shit ain't fun. Same deal with some of these Modern elf decks. Not interactive.
I, like the next guy...love a good green destruction deck or blue bounce deck...but if your opponent can't play anything because he has no lands...how is he interacting? He is just sitting there with his finger up his bum.

And that is the point...Magic is suppose to be interactive fun.
Not much interacting you can do when your opponent is averaging Turn 3 wins.
Tourney games, from what I have heard, is seeing who can pull off (most consistently) Turn 3 and Turn 4 wins.
That sounds boring.
Players so damned hardcore that playing any card over 4 mana is considered too slow to win...again...jesus, relax, chill, take a breather...no need to be in such a rush!

I kinda hate about myself that I use to be a Spike.

I am not hating. I think there is plenty of space in this community for budget casual players as well as Legacy Spike players.

mymobbsdeep

"It is always about quality. I dont give two shits about a deck being budget if its got quality."

And there, right there, is what making casual budget decks hard.
It is easy to throw 1,000 dollars on a deck and make it have quality.
It is much harder to throw 50 bucks on a deck and make it have quality.
For me...finding that one killer 50 dollar deck...I enjoy and love it more than I ever will that killer 2,500 dollar Turn 2 deck.

I think i may try a budget deck for Jesse though.

Yes please!!!

I think I have a red one about done...
http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/910652/

Maybe it isn't great. But it clocks in at 30 dollars.

I need a white one, extremely bad.

Played last night with my green destruction deck, a cephalid constable bounce blue deck, and a wall of blood/rite of consumption black deck.

Green= 3 wins 1 loss
Black= 2 wins 2 losses
Blue= 0 wins.

I want a cheap mono white deck and a cheap mono red deck...at no more than 35 dollars.
I figure my wife and I could play, whenever we found the time, and 1 cheap deck of every color sounded like a decent plan.

Here is my rebuttal

I think the 20 minute combo turn, is just 1 of the cool things in magic you can do. It may not be fun for the person losing, but it's fun for the one that's winning. But honestly the same can be said for almost every archetype, except maybe midrange. but at least with combo you are doing something interesting, and challenging.

Aggo- It's not very fun getting ran over by a bunch of super efficient creatures t4 every game.
Control- It's not very fun getting everything you do countered or answered and then slow wasting away to whatever few win conditions kill you on turn 20.
Tempo- It's not very fun getting beat down by 1 ultra efficient under costed creature while every thing you do gets countered or answered.
Prison- it's not very fun getting locked out of the game.
etc,

You see what i'm saying? What's fun for 1 person may not be fun for the other. But the main point to get to, is that if both decks are constructed well enough, none of these worst case scenarios should happen, because both decks will be fully capable a answering the opposing decks.

Like that green land destruction deck. Awesome deck, and super annoying to play against. but would that deck stand a chance in Modern? no way. In legacy? no chance at all. So while the decks strategy is effective, and super aggravating to play against, a well constructed, competitive list can break it in half.

In a competitive format, where both players are playing equally efficient decks, whether your winning t2, or 3-4, or even 5, there will be huge amounts of interaction. Because the cards are so good at what they do, and so efficiently costed, even when the game is sped up dramatically, there is a lot happening. I would argue that more happens in 4 turns of modern, than 8 turns of casual. And if we're talking about legacy, you can have more happening in 1 turn, than turns and turns of casual.

In competitive formats the gameplay is far more complicated, intricate, and interactive than you think. I would suggest playing the formats before making judgement on them. Standard is basic, and honestly less complex, interactive, and interesting than casual. I really don't understand the appeal there at all. But Modern has a ton going on in it. I know it seems like games ending on t4 is crazy, but honestly, it's really not like every deck is destroying you t4. it's more like, a lot of decks can "goldfish" a t4 win, but against an actual opponent with interaction, t4 wins aren't very frequent. But even when a player does win t4, or even t2 or 3 in Modern, almost all the cards are so cheap and efficient, there has been a ton of meaningful interaction that has sculpted the outcome of the game. The fact that the decks, and cards are so powerful makes the game that much more difficult and unforgiving. Every play counts 10 fold. In casual you can get away with screwing up and still get by. In a format like Modern, you need to make every play count. To me this makes the game far more interesting, and puts a larger emphasis on player skill , and strategy. All this can be said for Legacy as well but even more intensely. Legacy is by far the most interactive, complex, skill intensive way you can play magic. Having access to so many efficient spells, and such good deck manipulation makes decks far more consistent, which again places more emphasis in player skill, and strategy.

I guess the casual players like 20 turn games where they can fuck up over and over again and still somehow win, but to me that doesn't seem like a good time. I want to play a game where my player skill matters, and where every play has a purpose.

And honestly the whole Spike thing.. I'm not even a Spike, and this place still drives me crazy. I love playing out of the box combo decks. I'm not the guy playing the latest flavor of the week that is killing the current meta. I'm going to play what i wanna play, and i want to be doing something interesting, stylish, and unorthodox. But you can do those things and still be competitive.

I also want to add that i've seen plenty $1000+ piles of garbage on this site. Playing expensive cards doesn't mean you have a good deck.

Well spoken, Alleyway Jack.

Jack is right in so many ways, probably same number of stars for the number of times he is right. As a competitive player, the best magic games aren't ones on the kitchen table, the best games are the close 'win and in' or final games against your mate/a nice person where the last flip wins or loses it and you laugh about it whatever way it goes. I don't think many players are fans of the eggs combo that take forever, however most decks don't do that, you always have a shot in modern even when the combo begins. It feels like 'casual' is an excuse for poor.

Here's my budget Mono Red. Going old school with this guy.
http://www.mtgvault.com/alleywayjack/decks/mono-red-ponza/

My 500$ Modern deck.
http://www.mtgvault.com/northernwarlord/decks/modern-abzan/

its goyf/lilianna/abruptdecay/lingeringsouls less Abzan deck

god, its not that bad

lol its def not this good either

no but thats not what i'm saying

but don't buy it

your 7th, 8th and 9th post of your entire experience of this website are dedicated to down voting and arguing with me over THIS deck? Man i feel bad for you

...and I feel good about him/her.
Jeez mymobbsdeep, don't scare the shit out of new accounts...

I'm not that new to magic I just was informed about mtg vault

Yikes guys, I'm all for powerful decks, I have 2 tier 1 modern decks on the hot page, but that's a bit far the way you're going about the 'I don't like it'. Moaning like so won't help the community, putting good decks on might

actually putting good decks up doesn't mean shit anymore, everyone has their day in the sun. and once your moment passes, you will be replaced by a nice budget deck that wins with serra angel and fog bank

I'm with you, I think its bullshit, but it won't help our cause if we get very pissed, hopefully the time of budget will pass

in all honesty I think that whining is the most annoying thing here on the vault. do you really put decks up for the sole purpose of stroking your ego and brag about how much money you spent on them?

I like it when people put up decks to teach people, or are fun in a unique way. some people, heck MOST people, can't afford $200-$500 decks, and thus are more interested in the decks that are more in their budget.

now I have nothing against good solid tourney quality decks, but to see people complain about them not getting attention amid the hundreds of decks posted each day is just stupid. When all you do is complain about other people's decks then no one is likely to look at your decks, as nobody wants to with your whiny attitude.

and for as much as you complain about these budget decks, the more that you comment on them, the more popular they appear to be, and the longer they stay on the hot page. so you should either not comment on decks that you think are bad or, and I think this is the better option, give GOOD advice for the chosen format of the deck builder.

People wouldn't complain if the deck would still be decent but more often than not they are run-of-the-mill, lack synergy and are suboptimal even within their limitations (budget).

There we go, Puschkin was succinct and correct. If a deck is decent I will like it, a deck should be on the hot page because it is good.

kazzong, i probably vent on 1 budget deck for every 30 that show up on the hot list. if you can afford to buy a deck that is 50 dollars every now and then, then you can afford to buy a 500 dollar deck over the course of a couple months if you wanted to really get one. Thats what pisses me off, no one is actually going to go out and buy this deck... no one is play testing it, its just another cheap ass deck that northy throws out every week, just for the sake of throwing something out. I dont want to hear that no one can afford a good deck, if you think i dropped 500 on every deck i own straight up, your wrong. I have bought decks in pieces, and if you want a good deck badly enough, you will find a way to get it.
This site is a popularity contest now, and all these people just swarm all over you guys because your on the hot page, and you are disgustingly nice to everyone who comments and likes your deck, no matter how bad and unthoughtful their advice might be, just to keep your numbers up. If someone made an insulting comment to you, you would have 7-8 random kids come defend your honor for no reason at all, other than the fact that they want to please you, so maybe you will make one of their decks popular in return. Its cheap political tactics, everyone likes you because everyone else thinks everyone else likes you

So true, I built a Mardu Midrange deck in standard and it took me a while to make, only just got the last Bloodstained Mires, and yes it took me a while, but play testing it and shuffling it gives me a sense of achievement, and when it wins, it feels wonderful as something you've carefully put your time and money into performs. Sure if you lose you don't get that, but unless its the final of a pro tour it doesn't really matter and you can come back and win! Money is not as important as enjoyment in my opinion, and everyone gets a buzz from a win, and you know that if you put time into a powerful deck you WILL win games.

Guys, if you want to have a $500 competitive deck, then do it up. Nobody is keeping you from doing so, but there are a lot of people who probably don't care to have the same. I'd wager there are more budget decks on the hot page because there are a lot more people who play magic casually just to have fun than there are people who play it to be seriously competitive. I am in no way knocking you guys for wanting to make those kinds of decks, nor saying your wrong in that they have their own version of being fun. However, for me (and I would go out on a limb saying this covers a chunk of other folks as well) the buzz of a win is not why I play. I have never played in a tournament, and I never intend to. I play on kitchen tables with friends, and I enjoy it because it is a fun way to hang out with my friends. I could over time spend $500 on a deck, but for me what would be the point? My friends would be annoyed that I just auto win every game, and I'd have only one deck to play with. That would get pretty boring for me. I like to play a variety of decks cycling through totally different strategies. Usually my friends and I build decks around themes or certain mechanics or combos rather than the competitive collection of "I win" cards. My friends and I will even put all our decks on the table then roll a die and count off to see what deck we play (which means you could end up playing one of your buddy's deck). That $500 deck could be 25 $20 decks. By my definition of fun those 25 "weaker" decks are going to net a lot more fun for myself and my friends than that one $500 deck ever could. For your definition of fun it's the exact opposite because a variety of budget decks doesn't do you any good at your tournaments. For you that's just a variety of no-fun losing decks. That's cool, you are entitled to having fun with the game in whatever way works for you. It would be cool if you understood others are entitled to enjoy the game their own way as well. There will probably always be more players that enjoy the game casually than there are truly competitive players, so I wouldn't get hot and bothered about the time of budget decks needing to pass. There's no point in hating northy either. Yeah he seems to be a pretty nice guy to everyone, and crazy thing, people like people who are nice to them. It's a wild concept you could give a whirl sometime. At the end of the day why are you even putting decks up on a site like this? If you are looking to get advice on improving your deck you probably shouldn't even care about the hot page. It sounds like you are pretty experienced players and would do better just having the closer knit group whose opinion you trust help each other with your decks. The casual shlubs like me looking at decks on the hot pages probably don't know enough to actually be of any help to you.

Lets get one thing very very straight here. Its NOT the price, its the quality, and you need to play a tournament to understand it, I've played both so I feel I can comment a bit more, and when I played casual, for me, it cheapened magic, it seemed an excuse to play bad decks.

Frankly bub, I don't think you "understand it." You don't need to play tournaments to enjoy the game, and that's the point. If it weren't for all the "low quality" "cheap" casual players there would be no magic. There aren't enough players like yourself to actually make the thing commercially viable. When you get to the point of telling people you "can comment" more than them because you are more high and mighty or their way of playing is just "an excuse to play bad decks", you've made it pretty clear you are just being an arrogant arse. I think we're done here. Carry on being annoyed that people enjoy the game differently than you...

Actually I do understand it, i'm not saying you need to to make th game enjoyable, im just saying it does! I don't give a crap if a deck is cheap, my wallet likes cheap, I just want it good! You have never playing in a tournament so you dont have that experience, thats like me saying bacon is tastes crap cus im a vegan and ive never eaten it

Actually, what I'm telling you is a lot more like a vegan saying, "Hey, I'm sure you really like that bacon. That's great for you. Me an my vegan buddies are pretty happy with our roasted asparagus and don't feel the need to try bacon. Please stop hating just because I don't want to eat a strip of your bacon." (For the record I love me some bacon)

You love bacon, my respect went up. And honestly, play magic as you like, enjoy the game that you're paying money to play

what is he writing a journal entry!!!!>>????thekraken

Beer + Keyboard = Rant

AHAHA I know the feeling Kraken, some on my posts on NYE are rather... er... dodgy xD

Mono white prison?

How about mono red land destruction without any rares?
http://www.mtgvault.com/kjsj3/decks/shock-to-the-system/

land destruction is always fun, and evil.

My green deck is land destruction.
As is I want 1 budget (35 dollars and under) mono deck of every color. 5 decks to play with my wife.
So far I have:
1 mono green land destruction deck
1 mono blue bounce deck
1 mono black creature sack deck
I need a mono white and a mono red

I am thinking the white one should be the most well rounded and defensive.
Able to withstand losing mana. Able to withstand being bounced. Able to withstand opponent manipulating life with black creatures. Able to withstand any speed/burn red might bring.

So...in short, red land destruction is out of the question as green already has that.

Mono white prison.
I have a few white decks I just made.
Very heavy with fog, creature removal, enchantment/artifact removal, damage prevention.

Not sure what I want with red beside these 2 cards:
4 Fireblast
4 Furnace of Rath.

I want to Play the 4 mana for Furnace of Rath, and then sack two mountains to do 8 damage to the opponent.
I am thinking, with red...a mixture of both creatures and spells.
Old school sligh...maybe.

your blue bounce is nasty.

hey, Jessie, can you check out the mono white deck that I just put up?
http://www.mtgvault.com/kazzong/decks/mono-white/

are you talking about my deck

No, he is talking about his deck

what is that ment to mean

It's a double meaning lol

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/its-magic-gif.jpg

Yup seemed like ugin was opened all around me but none for me :(

I did go to the prelease. Went 4 - 1.
Got Ugin.

ye that happens when you pull Ugin!

I ended up 2-1-1 in a 2 headed, our draw was all my fault cus i kept a dodgy hand as i got greedy seeing my Phoenix and shaman of the great hunt and 1 land. The loss was to the overall winners of the tournament. My team mate got the alter art Ugin... lucky motherfucker

Pricey!! The normal Ugin is 30 bucks.
He is a lucky prick, that is for sure!

My friend (Shadowdusk13) and I took 1st (6-0) at our 2hg. Still no Ugin. However I now have a kolaghan edh deck. Dude is awesome.

basically he should just replace the deck with a better one lol

actually Pongify states that the creature destroyed cannot be regenerated, as does Rapid Hybridization I think... :)

The 2 mana exile one from FTR seems better though

My bad on Pongify and regenerators ... I read "destroy" and think regenerating is viable because it doesn't say "bury" ...
... still a bad choice for a multiplayer control deck without any mass removal or token control.

whelming wave is pretty cruel to tokens

Ok Puschkin, here is a question. I have been told that Bury is both Destroy and Sacrifice. which is it?

Bury is exile

then why does it go to the graveyard?

to my knowledge it doesn't its an outdated term, waaaaaaaaaay before my New Phyrexian time!

You are both wrong.

"Bury" = "Destroy without the ability to regenerate".

I really do not know why WotC dropped this keyword.

interesting. so it can't be regenerated? but doesn't get around indestructible. I see. Now that makes more sense.

and yeah, it is outdated, but I think it (or somethhing similar) should be brought back.

just exile the buggers!

In all honesty, even though I like exile, it seems a bit... OP, or at least too commonplace. escalation and graveyard recursion has made it difficult to run without it anymore sadly.

Have it backwards there ... the recursion has become too commonplace and OP, exile is just a way to fight back.

ye cus reanimating elesh norn or sphinx of the steel wind t2 is not mean

Why t2 when you can t1?

Puschkin, the further back that I look, the less recursion I see, and the more solid and permanent the graveyard is with a few exceptions. I guess that I can kinda see how it is in response to that...

either way I think that both are too commonplace.

Definately. When they started focussing on the graveyard as a resource I hoped it was just a block thing and would die down eventually but it got worse and worse each year. It becomes an ever increasing problem in multiplayer. Not only does the number of annoying cards grow, there are also more and more ways to bring them back. So, unless you exile, destroying something will only give you a short reprieve. And in multiplayer, where you have more than one opponent and the games are longer, it is feasible to run cards like Tormod's Crypt or Relic of Progenitus (any black deck worth it's salt runs Bojuka Bog in multiplayer for example). You can't blame them. BUT that generates lopsided games, decks that rely on their graveyard just fold when a Planar Void or Relic hits play.

you could use cheap duels like shivan reef and sulfur falls to play treasure cruise

Want it pure mono...or that would definitely work.
My wife plays magic...a little, besides that I never get to play anyone.
So, I thought, let me make a mono deck of every color.
That way she could easily understand the concept of Magic.
She could improve. Get better.
Then we could decide to move her up to more expensive/complicated/dual colored decks.
I need a red one and a mono white one.

For red...this is what i have, right now:

http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/910652/

I actually have all of those cards.
The deck is 53 cards.
I know 4 of those cards need to be draw like Browbeat...besides that...I still need a few cards to have it complete.
It is straight, and to the point...for what it is.

With the white deck I want it all around average and able to disrupt opponent.
Stuff like Hallow, O-ring, Banisher Priest, Disenchant, War Priest of Thune, etc.
And some sort of beat down angel as the win con.

Orcish Librarian is too slow (and fragile for that matter) for a regular burn deck. You would always add a Cursed Scroll to your burn deck before something like Librarian. Orcish Librarian would be used in a deck that wants to thin out and then reshuffle, but meanwhile better cards than that have been printed. The thing is, a deck that would Utilize Orcish Librarian would be controllish and most likely run blue - but if you have blue, you have access to way better cards like Browse, Mana Severance, Ancestral Knowledge etc.

He is a fun card, though.

Thanks Puschkin.
I think I have the red deck completed.
And, amazingly, I only have to buy 9 cards for it to be complete.

http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/killer-mono-red-budget-burn/

It is semi sligh.
The mana curve is sligh with:
Lots of 1 mana cards.
Almost as much 2 mana cards.
Very few 3 and 4 mana cards.
And a very few x mana cards.

It isn't pure early sligh because I am not as worried about using every mana every turn (stuff like Librarian and Cursed Scroll) but it isn't late sligh (straight burn)...it is somewhere in the middle.

Considering it will be running against simple mono budget decks of other colors...it has a chance to win.

if it isn't built to utilize every mana every turn, then it isn't Sligh - because that's the only thing that makes a deck "Sligh". Sligh is not another name for mana efficient red burn spells, it is a deck building principle where you value a proper mana curve and mana uitillization higher than the objective play value of the cards you add ... and this principle could be applied to any aggressive deck, mono red is just the one best suited for this. For example the original Sligh deck had 4 Ironclaw Orcs because the Sligh structure asked for more 2-drops and that was the best there is. (Ironclaw Orcs were bad even for 1993/94 standards)

I think I hit my nitpicking limit for today :P

I thought the original Sligh was more mana extensive with stuff like Orcs and Librarian and Cursed Scroll...the second version (with Mirage) was less mana extensive and more pure burn. Meaning...the first Sligh version was more worried about mana then he second version of Sligh.

We are nitpicking there, lol :)

That's because more cards were printed that fit the card slots.
And your timeline is off anyway ... Cursed Scroll is from Tempest which is much later than Mirage. The original Sligh decks had Dragon Whelp to make use of access mana. Dragon Whelp is casting cost 4, you can figure by that, that Sligh became a lot faster, but that is due to the card pool becoming bigger and better. Sligh became more burn oriented when better burn was printed - you only had Lightning Bolt, Incinerate and Chain Lightning (and the latter wasn't Type II). But later, with cards like Fireblast, everything was sped up and the need for creatures dropped and with that the entire structure and mana curve changed, up to a point where the term "Sligh" was applied to everyhing that looked like it.
Yes, it is only a technicality and probably only relevant for Magic historians which I am sure don't exist outside of WotC employees :P

Dude, "Manifest" isn't even a card. What the heck do you want?

manifest is a new mechanic. not out yet. it allows you to put out the top card of your library as a face down 2/2 creature. mostly instants and sorceries have it as far as I am aware.

Kind of.

manifest is a mechanic from fate reforged, it is SO bad, found out pre-releasing

Yep...sorta like morph..but not exactly.

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/mechanics-fate-reforged-2014-12-29

yeah. it is an interesting mechanic, but overall does not seem very... competative.

its simply not good enough, i only once hit something of relevance and frankly, i would have preferred to cast it!

You have to think around corners - if you manifest an instant, it is a creature, so you can bounce it as if it was a creature for example. There are also ways to manifest opponent's cards => again, cards that wouldn't be creatures are creatures now, so you can Swords to Plowshare an Ancestral Recall :) but it also triggers Oath of Druids do give a more practical example.
Manifest isn't weak per se, it always depends what the card does otherwise and at what price it comes. If you can use it multiple times for example, you can build an army fast.

You're talking of living the dream, from experience, its not good

The cards aren't even out yet and if you played them in a prerelease, then you played it in a very limited format. Magic has dozens of formats and roughly 15000 cards to play with. Plus, the block it was released in isn't finished yet. If you dismiss it that early ... well ...

If it does succeed I will be shocked to say the least

I used it during the prerelease and it worked well for me. I could see a jeskai (or w/u/x) deck getting a lot of use from it.

I guess we shall see what becomes of it. it is, at the very least, interesting. :)

Ghastly Concription is a killer in Multiplayer/EDH!

By the way, manifest will be broken in other formats, here is why (and Gothy, you should have seen this with your competitive eye!):
Manifested creatures can be turned face up for the mana cost. The thing is, when you turn something up, it is already in play, so no come-into-play effects are triggered! So, all you need is cheap creatures with drawbacks that trigger when they hit play - for example Phyrexian Dreadnought! Manifest it and then you can turn up a 12/12 trampler for 1 mana!

Bazinga!

however, as far am aware, only certain things can be manifested. or I could be wrong.

I missed that, but I'm actually focusing on standard due to the recent bannings I now don't fully know the meta, so I won't be publishing a deck, apart from the rack because losing dig and cruise helps that deck no end, in the modern formant until after the pro tour

All it needs is a creature similar to Phyrexian Dreadnought withing the next 4 sets! Yes, WotC knows what they are doing so they would not print a brainfart, but that also means they know pretty what to print to make something worthwhile to push certain decks or concepts if they want. If Manifest turns out to be too weak in the Future League, they can still adjust in the upcoming sets by printing one or two cards specifically designed to be played in a manifest deck. They doing this for many years now, I don't see them stopping this habit.

it works well with scry, but it doesnt feel reliable enough, thats just my opinion and I could be very wrong cus Thassa

and see, I felt the same way about allies and landfall, and look how wrong I was about that...
that block was considered the most OP block to have been printed.

Zendikar? More OP than Urza`s Saga block?

that is what I was told.

Portal 3 kingdoms? ;) No, that is very true, I did like manifest before playing, Jim Davis had a nice idea with it, but it screwed me so hard in the prerelease

Urza Saga...by far.
Urza Block was brutal.

In all, The Urza block has had more cards banned from tournament play than any other block. Over the course of the block's history, 16 different cards have at one point been banned in at least one DCI sanctioned format, nine of which debuted in Urza's Saga (Stroke of Genius, Time Spiral, Windfall, Yawgmoth's Will, Goblin Lackey, Voltaic Key, Gaea's Cradle, Serra's Sanctum, and Tolarian Academy).

10 years later, getting back into Magic...did you know how proud it made me to realize that I collected the Urza block right before quitting? That I always thought it was an overpowered expansion...now 10 years later no expansion has come close to being as broken.

Anyone, google the Tolarian Academy/Windfall deck.
Or Memory Jar/Megrim deck.

Turn 1 wins in Standard!!
Yep, let me repeat that, Urza Block allowed for 1st turn wins in Standard.
And not just once in awhile Turn 1 wins...The Academy deck had a 60-75 percent ratio of Turn 1 wins. Turn 3 over 90 percent of the time.

And the Memory Jar deck was banned in two weeks!!!
Now, instead of Megrim we have Liliana's Caress. Jesus!
Glad Will and Memory Jar are still banned!

For an idea of how overpowered Urza Saga was...go look at Gaea's Cradle.

Sorry to burst your bubble but surely alpha, Moxen and black lotus

To Gothy.
O.o... those are good, but they can't win the game by themselves. they are purely support cards that allow you to make everything better.

also, I never said Zendikar block was the best, just that on a per card basis, it had the most powerful single cards. emrakul and Iona say hi.

I am with Puschkin on this.

Goblin Guide says "hello" too.
I do feel lucky.
Before I quit magic I collected entirely Urza's Saga.
Lots and lots of them.
I quit for 10 years.
An old friend drops by says here you go. If I keep them I will keep spending thousands of dollars that I don't have, on them.
He gives me a 50 pound box of Magic cards.
90% of them are Zendikar and Worldwake and M10.
Lots of good cards! For free.
And now I here people compare Zendikar to Urza's Saga.
I am one lucky dude...that out of all the Expansions I could collect I picked Saga...and out of all the cards my friend could of gave to me he gave me Zendikar!!

However, that dumbass must of sold all of his Fetch Lands.
Just by the sheer number of cards he gave me would dictate that he pulled several fetch lands.

yeah... that was another thing that I didn't get when I first started playing... I felt almost cheated when I opened a fetch land or other rare land. I traded most of them without realizing how valuable they are/were/were going to be.

stupid me. same with progenitus and Nicol Bolas, planeswalker... yeah, traded that essentially for garbage. felt so stupid... :(

I bet money that he had to trade several fetch lands.
Besides a several hundred dollar goblin deck...I don't see where he got fair money for his lands.
So I am thinking he got cheated out of them without realizing (or caring) about there value.
Maybe not...he hated to play 3 color decks...so he might of hated the Fetchlands and gladly traded them away so that he could buy more Booster Packs.

Want to hear my dumbass story?
Way back in early Magic Dragons were very expensive.
Most Dragons were 5 dollars at least.
Mainly because they rocked...we didn't have stuff like Tarmo or Confidant.
I spent hundreds on Dragons.
An entire notebook of Dragons.
10 years later I join back up with MTG...do a price search for my Dragons...and they are worth around 50 cent each.
And crap like Lion's Eye Diamond...which people couldn't sale or give away went from 3 dollars to the god-awful price it is today.
Wish I could go back and spend all that money on Force of Will and Lion's Eye Diamond.
As of now, I just have several dozen Dragons that no one will buy.
Lame.

Gothy: Alpha/Beta/Unlimited is just one set, the basic set. We are talking of blocks of expansion sets. Urza was the most broken, by far. I actually lived and played to every single block and can assure you that nothing came ever close to "Combo Winter" caused by Urza. From the mentioned Academy and Memory Jar decks that got emergency-banned outside of the regular schedule to others that haven't been mentioned here yet but would be considered insane in today's environment, like Yawgmoth's Bargain-Academy Rector-Phyrexian Tower decks or those crazy ones with Opalessence.

Let's put it this way: In Urza era mono-red Gobo-Burn could kill turn 3 (and quite consistently thanks to Goblin Lackey). But Gobo-Burn was considered *too slow* ...

Bargain deck was brutal.
Skirge/Bargain/Will/Moxes....extremely brutal.

Same with Opalescence...was extreme too.
Turning everything you had into an army of 1/1 or 2/2s. Yuck.

Combo Winter.
Lots of people...me included quit around that time.
Who wants to lose on Turn 1 or Turn 2?
Again, who wants to lose on Turn 1 in Standard?
Nothing has come close to that.

I was just talking prices, and I think price wise, Zendikar may be up there as you had th chance at pulling a mox or a lotus or something else power 9, I like the sound of getting a time walk for £3!

Yeah, I have heard Zendikar prices are expensive. Not sure why.
Maybe they didn't sale that well and not many people have the staples like Goblin Guide.
Or the booster packs could of been very pricey like Modern Masters.

No the block is expensive because if all the crazy staples in it. Enemy fetch lands, landfall, the Eldrazi, one if the most badass angels in the game, not to mention the allies (almost as broken as slivers). I started playing in Zendikar and it was a blast!

yeah, that is what I mean. a lot of Zendikar has become staple cards. and it isn't really the block stuff, but the individual cards that have made an impact. (minus allies, as they are only good in ally decks. still powerful though.)

Friday when it comes out I assume!

That's about when it usually comes up

Fate is now live on vault!

Yeah, saw it on fb. Now I can add my prerelease deck(s).