Modern Affinity

Thanks man, that really means a lot. This deck is the result of a ton of hard work, I'm glad it shows

I think it shows better than a lot of the tournament decks I've seen, you don't need a team of paid designers for you, and you make better than they do. I've got ways to devastate every main hyper-aggressor except affinity since people started running yours, even the netdeckers are dangerous lol

I think I see more netdecks of your affinity builds than anybody else on this site or salvation, it's gotten insane dude

He's right. On both accounts. I've said it before and I'll say it here too, you have a gift for artifacts, specifically Affinity. This deck is unreal, and I've already played against a few netdecks of it. It's so god damn fast dude...I'd even say these netdecks of your design are overtaking Gobs as the aggro threat to Extraction. I've been having a real hard time beating them.

WnB has Reanimator, I've got Extraction...

Dude, I'm officially declaring you the king of Affinity. =]

Uggh. I composed a long reply to this, which the website unfortunately crashed upon my reporting. Don't wanna take the time to retype it all, but basically my points were

1) Thanks so much for the support guys
2) I have noticed the trend you mention and am very excited - I came up with the idea for this style during the MBS spoiler season
3) It would be really awesome if a big-time was to pick up this list - not happened yet, but it has been discussed on SCG.
4) On M-L, NPH is not legal and Vault Skirge is officially INSANE! I'm running 4 copies over Frogmite

Hey man I mean it. Everyone has their niche...yours is this =]

I just wish there was some magic way to keep people from using this against me...It is DEFINITELY the new aggro threat for Extraction. My extraction decks can deal with Gobs...I've learned how to take them. This though...it's too damn fast and there's almost nothing I can pull out of your deck that really slows it down enough.

Don't take this the wrong way...but I really don't want you to make anything better than this...If you do...It will be like Lands all over again -_-

(By the way...NPH cards make Lands a joke by comparison to before for Extraction. HUZZAH!)

Please explain how artifact lands makes Affinity "easy"... Not getting that part.

I'm with Joe... I took a day to work on the affinity I made for CASUAL, and it still doesn't fire as well as Joe's. Mine is Vintage even...

Honestly, without artilands, Affinity would not really work even up to par. It's a necessary evil really.

Oh god... Affinity in Vintage... with Workshop...

*Goes off and makes a list*

On the artifact lands: I would agree they are a necessary evil. Although they do a lot for the power level of this deck, it makes LD much easier and certain hate cards much more formidable

I dunno to be honest. Such decks are not strong enough to be played comparatively, but seem like they have a good affinity MU. Do you have a decklist in mind?

Okay, so I looked at your lists, and I think I would have no issue eating you. Sorry, but your deck is too slow... I mean, sure, you can kill two or three guys, but that will buy you maybe a turn or two...

How exactly does due respect help? Noone has haste, and its not like you can cast it Turn 1...

Trinisphere is a pain, I'll grant you that, but we have artifact hate to take care of it (kinda). Luckily, you cant exactly throw Trinisphere into any deck, so most people dont use it

It makes you have access to one less land (minor, but it helps), it shuts down the Springleaf Drum bullshit, and also holds off Mox Opal to an extent.

Due Respect, THAT's what I forgot! I've been working on just fighting fire with douchier fire like I usually do, but that could work!

Hahaha good luck with that. Won't help you much vs a good opponent :P

I said it helped, not that it...actually...damn you ragged -_-

Sure thing man... As if I would have a clue XD

If you can't beat'em....

Well I went 2:3 against them, it's just one knew how the deck should be played. I dread the chance I might wind up playing you on workstation, because no matter the victor, it would be slaughter.

Also, since you're the person with more experience with artifacts than pretty much anybody; what's a good artifact creature for one mana? I'm currently using Court Homunculus in a casual deck, and the deck doesn't really attack except to win... It just makes the Homunculus seem wasted really.

Well that really depends on the list. Post it?

Sure thing! I'll check it out

Goldfish wins average turn 3-4 (I did 100 hands, total turns=321). Combo decks are a relatively good matchup, between Canonist, Theropy, and (depending on the deck) Revoker, I find we can slow combo down noticeably.

The issue with Frogmite is that after turn 3 you rarely will be swinging with him. I feelhe just sits there in too many games. For Disciple, I think it is often a dead card, as the best spot removal in Legacy exiles dudes and if I dont have Ravager, Disciple often is useless. On speed, see above.

I don't know about you, but I see Wasteland everywhere. Additionally, Citadel survives a broad range of things from Grip to Energy Flux to Shattering Spree to Deeds. Really marvelous. I run only 2 Vault of Whispers because that's all I need. I don't need much B

What type of draw gets the turn 3 kill? Jw. I used the sample hand viewer and did not see many likely scenarios (admittedly with a smaller sample size: about 10 hands).
And Wasteland is a valid point, though honestly, with a deck like this, I'd probably most often want them to waste their own land to take out one of mine when I'll still just drop everything anyways... Shattering Spree is sick stuff regardless but I guess I can see your point.
I love affinity but I feel like it's just very fragile and a bit slow vs. combo...

My bad... 421 turns, not 321. Wins T4-5. It has a decent combo matchup post board with all the hate I can bring in. I do not feel this deck is very fragile, quite the opposite actually! Why do you think it is?

Well, besides the nice list of hate you already provided? How often do you slam through a turn 2 Kataki, War's Wage?

My point here though is that affinity is a solid deck choice, for sure. However, to me it is similar in nature to Dredge/Reanimator decks in that against an unprepared field they can do lots of damage. When sideboards begin to bring in hate against them, you're doomed. Artifacts are easy to get rid of. Hell, even a quickly powerd out card like Creeping Corosion will rock a deck like this. The biggest reason Affinity builds are fragile though, is that they have little to no defense against those types of cards. Many other aggro builds have awesome "reset buttons" like goblins with Goblin Ringleader, Goblin Matron, and such. Other decks have ways to stop problems by running cards like Force of Will. This deck lacks that ability. In short, it's very narrow and does little to interact with the opponent short of beating down.

So... I feel it's justified to say it is a fragile deck. Good, powerful, fun - no doubt about it, but fragile. Speed is necessary to beat the combo. This deck is somewhat short on that. High Tide is one of the "Slower" combo decks in legacy right now and it consistently goes off by turn four. If you don't win the die roll, that means you've just lost the match. Even post-board, they have hate and Force of Will for yours.

If you find the right field without fast combos and prepared sideboards, this looks awesome. A more average field of combo decks though, and I'm sorry but I'm not seeing it. However, NPH should help eliminate some of the High Tide validity thanks to a certain "free" uncommon - perhaps a misstep on the R&D from Wizards.;)
(Yes, pun intended)

I've never really run into enough hate that they could stop Reanimator... I run that as my main deck, and usually my loses come from me getting a hand that is absolute dildos, hate just doesn't do much against a good pilot. Dredge however, can be devastated sooo much easier.

Also, with Surgical Extraction and Mental Misstep coming out, I see combo taking a bit of a back burner for now. The amount of hate cards for the basic Storm, or Tide deck is astonishing post NP...

2 Mindbreak Trap
3 Mental Misstep
3 Surgical Extraction

And only Mindbreak isn't a general purpose card, so that setup could easily be slid into a vast number of decks. Hell, you could even throw in Revokers in a lot of decks if you see to much storm, name LED and we're boned.

How does your reanimator fare vs. the black Leline? 1 card that beats the deck basically stone-cold, before play has even begun.

Look, I'm not trying to pick a fight or anything. Mental Misstep will change the face of Legacy, no doubt. The other two are cute but very hard to use effectively or correctly. You can't just shove them into any deck and expect to beat combo with them. Surgical Extraction is fine but unbelievably overrated right now. I just don't understand all the hype. You cast it and fine, but they've already cast their win condition. Make 'em discard it but they'll Misstep you or use FoW.

Graveyard hate is hardly uncommon and hardly impossible to use in ANY deck. Revoker is pretty weak, btw. It is soo easy to get rid of and against a skilled player will maybe slow them down by a turn at best. I've said my part, and if you don't want to believe any of it, fine. However, being prepared and aware of weakness is crucial to both becoming a better deck builder and magic player.

Except when there is a difference between what kills q deck and what you see...

I have never in my life seen anyone at a PTQ or major tournament with Leyline of the Void, except for leylines.dec. Kitaki is also very rare, as WW is not a great mana cost right noes and most ppl don't think it's needed. But we do have spot removal for him if need be.

Kitaki only cost 1W which is incredibly easy to cast in legacy. You basically have Dispatch is all and that's if you draw one of the 3 right away, have the correct mana for it (admittedly not too hard to get), and have the mana open before your upkeep. Oh, plus that's assuming you sided it in...

Leyline is less played for sure, but the point is that it is NOT hard to hate reanimator if you feel there is a need, same as affinity.

Reanimator does have admittedly a terrible game if they carry leyelines in the board, but as Joe said, it's not common. And Revoker is exactly what you describe, a stall tactic. A turn to live can net a great deal against some decks.

Grave hate is possible the most prevalent throughout magic right now, and I'm certainly not picking fights either, I in fact agree with most of your opinions. I simply wanted to throw out a hate package, not tailored for actual use, to sprout ideas.


However, I do disagree with you on the subject of Surgical Extraction. It's going to have a massive impact on how storm is designed I think.
It rips out Brainstorms, Ponders, or mana production if you play it right. Using it on Tendrils or EtW is absolutely useless, as you said, but taking LED is pretty nasty.

Meh. Have you heard of Extirpate? It's like the same thing but situationally better, occasionally worse as well. I wouldn't say either is hands down better though. But, similar to the Leyline, it sees very minimal sideboard play right now and for good reason. Taking brainstorm won't do enough. Ponder is even worse. In fact, it actually makes their deck 3 cards closer to getting their combo off. It does hurt the deck overall, but it's not terrible for them either. Led usually doesn't reach the graveyard until they're comboing off anyways so it's probably not going to stop them too well either honestly. I think for a while people will try to pack it into decks but it will soon meet the same fate as Extirpate: maxing out as a 2-of in the SB of decks...

Extraction, in general, destroys Storm/combo decks. Surgical Extraction is an arguably better Extirpate, as it can be used faster, and in any deck color. Mental Misstep will indeed change competitive play in a large way, but one of the roles it will serve is as protection against Surgical Extraction.

You can just ask WnB...Storm gets trashed by Extraction. =P

Extraction as a deck for sure would trash Storm/Combo. The card on it's own.. I'm just not sold... Surgical Extraction will often be better, though being "uncounterable" for Extirpate makes it a better option in various matchups (assuming you're running black mana production).

Without question. My most recent Extraction deck uses I think 2 Surgical Extraction and 1 Extirpate, just in case I need to whip out the big ol' "**** you" that is Split Second.

As a random afterthought... While it may not come up often, one more case for Split Second is to prevent them from removing your one card with Surgical Extraction on their own. What I mean is, once you target a card in a graveyard with Surgical Extraction, they could potentially use a spell or ability to remove it from the game (or shuffle it into their library - I'm thinking respond with Entomb into eldrazi or some weird shenanigans), essentially negating the library/hand carnage it would otherwise use. Again, not very probable, but a fun idea to be aware of.

I have actually witnessed the "panic self-grave hate". It's amusing to say the least, as it's like smiling at a full house in poker. Split Second is indeed an unbelievably powerful ability. If S.E. was as it is but also with Split Second, I can say, with no shame whatsoever, that I would have crapped myself right there.

Hahaha. Yes, I would then actually perhaps concede defeat and say it was an excellent card, rather than a decent but over-hyped card.;) That's awesome though. Props to you and the opposing player, btw. Many wouldn't catch that line of play, but yet it's hilarious to force upon them.:)

Definitely. When he did it I was like..."You sneaky bastard..."

Also, long post chain is long...

Back on topic... How many sb spots are you willing to devote to Kitaki? 2? 3? I seriously doubt anyone will make a quarter of their sb affinity hate. And even if you run 3, you don't have it game one, game two you have to draw one in the first 5 turns or else it wont matter, and game three I get another shot at killing you, this time with cards to answer Kitaki. Good odds for me. Although it's true plenty of affinity-hate cards exist, that is slightly different from saying affinity is easy to hate.

There are soo many cards that it is incredibly easy to hate. I'll say it one more time... Against an even moderately prepared field, this deck will have a rough time. Against a totally unprepared field lacking fast combo decks, this deck can do excellent. I'm not saying it's a bad deck or a bad list, even. I do still believe a bit more speed would help it *cough* disciple *cough* ;)

As it stands, it's basically an aggro list which is fine, but not incredibly unstoppable. It runs out of gas fairly quick. Tezzeret is the major key to helping prevent that but it still can easily happen.

I love affinity, but there is a reason it's no longer the "boogeyman" it used to be back in the days of the orignal Mirrodin block, even post-clamp.

Oh, and if you need/want more to work the Disciple into comboing with, you could try a red splash for Atog or something like that. Not quite as good as Ravager (ok, nowhere nearly as good) but still pretty sick. If they can't block it on turn 3 or kill it and you even have 1 Disciple out... Ouch.

I personally think disciple, while good, is remarkably overrated. It might at times make this deck faster, but other times it could end up as a complete bust. DotV's main glory came from the Mirrodin block, where it was so unanswerable in affinity builds, that tournaments became who drew their Ravager first. Now, he's still good, and probably will never be considered "bad", but he is nowhere near the level of power he was at back then.

Disciple can drop the average kill of this deck by 1 turn and even have a new "God draw" of turn 2 kill.

Turn 1: Vault, Opal, Drum, Ravager, Memnite, Disciple
Turn 2: Disciple, Disciple, All out attack and sac all artifacts to Ravager. Combo also works with Atog, btw.

Not too likely, but holy S*** fast! The fast kill before was turn 4...
THIS is the power you often need/want to beat the fast combo decks.

On a completely different note, I commented back on my Bant deck Raggedjoe. I'd really appreciate some follow up feedback.:) Thanks for your help.

Oh, I definitely am not saying it couldn't add in speed to the deck, as you have shown, and is clear anyway, it would. However, I worry that it could also lead to "dead draws" and moments of slower play. Don't forget, to put in Disciples, you have to take other things out, which could slow down the deck more than its addition might speed it up.

Obviously, ragged knows more about what to take out than I do, provided he chooses to add Disciple or not. In the end, it does come down to his decision...and in both cases I can see an argument that makes sense. Put him in and risk dead hands for more possible speed, or leave him out for overall more consistent play.

=/

(Btw, link to said Bant deck?)

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=173886

^^ Bant deck (Standard)

Yeah, I guess I can see the argument for consistency. I just love the explosive power Disciple offers, though I guess I could see why you may not want it..

Mhmmm. A "good" hand with this deck is rather insane. I once got what is definitely the best possible hand before (on play):
Tezz, Tomb, 3 Mox, 2 Ornithopter

I grabbed a third Orni with my T1 Tezz and he resigns before his 1st turn

Thanks man! Ive been wondering about MoE, but I don't think I can support any more 3 drops and Etched is usually better than MoE in my experience. Pro colored is sweeter than you can imagine until you start using this deck competetively. Sick with Basically everything

My only issue with Crusher is his CMC. I spend 4 mana on cards that win the very next turn.

Yeah....the ravanger is way better, when u consider disciple of the vault.

... except most people don't run disciple because he is dead without Ravager. I'd much rather have a Vault Skirge or Pest most of the time

I've never liked Glimpse much, it seems like an extremely conditional card and a horrid topdeck. Dobyou have a good list with it I could see?

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=179046 it is pretty pre tezzeret tho

My main issue w ur deck is it is very very threat light, like all Glimpse Decks I have seen. What happens when you don't find a threat?

Yep! This deck is on track to become my most popular deck ever! Awesomeness!

Thank you very much :) I'm glad you enjoy it. Please take the time to check out some of my other decks

I feel this deck falls under the Affinity archetype because it is the natural evolution of that deck. Tooth used to be good, but today is massively underpowered. Many people have completely dropped Enforcer, and I expect people to realize Frogmite is underpowered as well. Although this list only runs 4 Affinity cards, this deck follows the same strategy that old-style affinity ran, and, if looked at over time, is the obvious evolution of Affinity today.

Ah, I dig it :) So Affinity has graduated from just a mechanic to being a theme.. not surprising :P Mind you, I was wrong in my origional post, Ravager, Ornithopter, Cranial Plating, and art-lands are as much affinity as cards with the actual text "affinity"

Only reason I was asking is because a friend of mine runs an affinity deck, which was beyond good in it's day but is somewhat lacking now. He's helped me out quite a lot by giving me some cards I'd never be able to acquire otherwise, so I wanted to look through my collection and see if I could find anything to help modernize his affinity deck. I think he wants to keep the elements of traditional affinity, so this would be a bit too far removed from that. Still, maybe there could be a happy middle ground to keep it casually competitive? Any suggestions?

There are many ways to alter the original Affinity to be more competitive and still keep to the same theme of getting as many cards in play and swinging with a large creature.

It depends on your knowledge of what cards are out there and what cards are available to you.
Raggedjoe's example is just one way of making an Affinity deck.

Yeah, if you've ever noticed, even from the original affinity decks, the most "broken" or powerful cards were the ones that didn't say affinity anywhere on them (Ravager, Skullclamp, Vial, Artifact lands, etc.). This deck just pushes the power level far beyond the original deck (short of Skullclamp which is still banned for legacy) by updating the old affinity cards which were once good, but now a bit more underwhelming.

Sure thing, I'll check them out!

Go right ahead! I actually have a deck I made recently that is vintage Affinity, you'd have to drop the moxen for art lands and the P9 spells for something else, but it's a good blueprint you can use.

Well.. wish I could help you but I'm not sure how. Oh wait... maybe by commenting.;)

Congrats man! Almost over 200! Crazy stuff!

Bleep Bloop!
Achievement unlocked, it's over two-hundred!

Congrats dude. I present you with your first 200/100 deck award! (not technically your first 200 deck though, I don't think)

This deck is certainly worthy of such an achievement. It's been giving me a hard time since you made it...well, since you made it, someone saw it, ordered the cards, and then brought the netdeck to my shop...but I digress =P

Ummm.... confusion...

Frogmite is barely faster than Skirge, and is useless after turn 2-3. Dunno what your saying about Enforcer, because I don't run it.
"It may be good but 4 drops in legacy are usually suicide dead draws. Play at your own risk." This isn't exactly true, but Tezz can be a problem sometimes. The trade off is that it is a "next turn I win" card.

"Ancient tomb and glimervoid are going to screw you over in competition. Your mox opals and springleaf drums substitute your mana base so you are going to find them dead drops. Your better off running blinkmoth nexus to combo with pest, plating, or ravager. It is a wasted investment. "
--I take it you would be suprised to learn I play this deck in 100+ man legacy tourniments? Anyways, Tomb and Glimmervoid you are dead wrong about. They win games. Ever heard of Null Rod? Most popular Affinity-hate crad out there. How about all the ways to kill artifacts? Non-art lands are important. Tomb also provides speed and Glimmervoid gives me more color access. I think you should also count my mana sources, because your missing something there.

I don't think you have much experience with this deck (or maybe playing legacy?), because you would know that ANT is not a threat, and Belcher is not played enough to be called a threat either. Goblins... well, read some tourniment analysises. Gobs's deck matchup is the mirror. High Tide is not the best matchup, but the deck is too expensive for more than a handfull of people to play per tourniment. I DO have Revoker in my sb, but noone plays Helmn of the Void, its for UR Painter and Horizons mainly.

I must have missunderstood what you meant about plating... it has Equip {1}....

Also, about your deck... You draw SFM and Paladin AND have metalcraft by turn 4? That's, well... really really lucky.

Ravager really shines as a removal magnet, turns extra mana sources into damage, and can do some sick combat tricks too. Its better is meh hands that aren't bad enough to mull.

White is on the SB.

Consistency... Sometimes he's a dead draw

that makes sense. i also don't like to add something just for that occasional cool combo or win.

i can back up surewhynot, this deck is a semi-frequent sighting at our shop.

do you think, by the way, you could maybe tell me what you think of my deck?

Awesome-sauce. I kinda took over the mtgsalvation Affinity thread once MBS came out because I knew this is what Affinity should turn into :)

This deck will beat any KRed deck. Dunno how much competitive play you know, but this deck is competitive in Legacy play. Easily would take apart any standard deck, KRed, Caw-Blade, or RUG

That spell will never be used on a deck like this. It's just too slow.

Ummm.... No. Just no. Energy Flux is dangerous. Gust is laughable. Besides, what deck would possibly want to run it?

that new card creeping corrosion works pretty well against the newer tezz decks, do you think it would give you trouble with this deck? it's 4 mana, but green can get to that very fast. :|

Ummm.... No. I can't see anyone using that card since every deck that runs green has strictly better options available, except for elves, and elves is a rough matchup for Affinity already, though luckily that deck has an unfavorable percentage v the field as a whole. As far as Legacy is concerned, Creeping Corrosion is as playable as Koth.

The #1 mistake I see people make on this site is the trap you just fell into: thinking about the wrong format. Very very few cards are good in legacy unless they merely enhance a pre-existing synergy. The only T2 cards that come to mind as exceptions are Goblin Guide, GSZ, and some of the phyrexian mana cards. Think about it this way: Tectonic Edge is playable in T2. now look at Wasteland.

hmm good point.

Sure thing man!

Thoughtcast has Affinity...

Affinity has developed into an archetype, not just one deck. The name was never a great fit as even in the original deck, the non of the best cards (and no card that would be banned in some format) had the word "Affinity" on it.

I have tested it over and over and sadly there just isnt room :'(

Definitely a cool idea, I'll test it out! Thank

Seat of the Synod and Vault of Whispers are banned in modern...