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Here's my Maniac Deck.
Aimed towards a turn 3 to 5 win.
Built for Legacy & Multiplayer with a budget in mind.
THANKS for all the suggestions and advice - I really appreciate it everyone!
Capable of a turn 3 win if not countered and Laboratory Maniac doesn't cop removal.
Regularly wins by turn 5.
Has cycling, draw and transmute with a few other little tricks.
The deck is VERY dependant on having many instant draw, or free draw spells to follow up it's main combo;
PARADIGM SHIFT into LABORATORY MANIAC. Follow that up with draw/counter and it's game.
It needs to find it's junk quickly, due to lack of defence.
One thing to note - your opponents will SEE THIS COMING!
When you cast Paradigm SHift, your opponent's get to see all the cards removed from the game/exiled etc.
Same with Ancestral Knowledge.
They'll see the remaining Laboratory Maniac's in there....... hope you're ready........
After playtesting this deck, I've found it very vulnerable to land destruction and combo stompy, like putting out Emrakul on turn 3. Discard is another hard match-up, but it's still possible to win c/o the 'Shift.
I've tried to include some creature defence that doubles as tools for the deck.
If you like playing G/W - beware this deck!!!
One of the things I REALLY like about Paradigm Shift is the way you can re-use the draw/counter cards you used earlier, especially Ancestral Knowledge!
Any suggestions on how I could improve this deck are very welcome!
If there's any cards you think I should include, or a splash for another colour, please let me know why also.
My mana base is the main thing I'm still unsure of - any suggestions?
I've tried using Ancient Tomb, but it's not very effective with all the transmute cards.
The sideboard so far is just a few idea's, nothing decided. Any suggestions as to what I'll need is welcome.
This deck has been viewed 25,410 times.
wow. you could end someone in like 5 turns. max. never thought of some of those combos. check out my deck? http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=325938
Yeah I've been working on it for a while. Been trying to get a deck that costs less than $50 win a Multiplayer game in 5 turns or less. This one is fast, but it's also quite vulnerable..not too sure how to make it more resilient without making it take at least 2 more turns to get the win.
i mean this deck has turn four easy. I honestly have very little input for this deck idea, except for how to make it less vulnerable, as you say. two of my favorite defenders ever work well here: guard gomazoa and fog bank. both are super resilient and super cheap.
They're both very solid options. I like Fog Bank a lot. ;D
My original idea used Wall of Tears and Wall of Frost, LOL, so I'm not too far off.
I found by using Owls, especially Augury Owl and Owl Familiar, I was able to get better consistency at the expence of defence.
In a duel, I can almost completely ignore the opponent unless they have some incredibly nasty combo deck. In multiplayer I have serious trouble defending myself, but a Propaganda is such a loss of tempo that It seems to dissuade attacker's before turn 4. In general though,
I think this deck has such a risky combo, the quicker I power it out the better - otherwise I'm toast to counter and removal.
Fog bank is OP but works fantastic in a defender mill deck or in any defender deck, a 0/2 that is almost indestructible. Just awesome. But anyway, the easiest way I can see to counter or make it more resistant, it to put some control cards, with low cost, into it. However that would take away from the amount of cards you have for self-mill. Just a thought
You should think about using Fluctuater and a whole bunch of Cycling 2 cards to mill yourself really fast.
Also, could someone give me feed back on this rainbow deck i made...
I'll have a look and check them out.
The main reason I don't have many cycling cards in here is speed. Basic's are in there mainly for that, whereas I only included some cycling to help with my combo.
I did try the deck with a whole lot of cycling lands, but found that if I draw the cards I need in my first draw, I lose tempo because of the ETBT effect.
There's a fairly common deck in Legacy called cephalid breakfast which involves milling your entire deck using cephalid illusionist paired with an en-kor or any 0 to equip equipment.
Oh...Hadn't heard of that one - I don't tend to play Legacy very often.
I'll look it up - cheers.
I liked this deck well enough to build my own variant and wanted to give you props for the ideas. Thanks for the inspiration!
Looks like our decks are pretty different!
All I can really say is isochron scepter to give you some card advantage, and recurre important spells (ie brainstorm) sorry self mill is a deck I just never really understood. But of what you say is true, kudos man.
Isochron Scepter is actually one of the cards I've been considering.
It's a real monster in decks like this full of counter and draw.
Another I considered was Mimic Vat to get my Maniac over and over if someone nails it.
I've changed the deck a fair bit - it's packed full of instants now, most creatures and Propaganda are all gone in favour of powering out my combo and protecting it with instants.
In regards to Self-Mill being a deck you don't understand;
It's an idea I'm trying to make work.
The Obvious choice is Painter & Grindstone, so you can mill your opponents entire deck by turn 3, or mill yourself with the maniac if they're running Leyline of Sanctity.
I just thought I'd try a more budget friendly version of that, and so far, this deck is just as fast, and a little more likely to "go-off" due to having more options for library removal.
......although it is a little more vulnerable to decking yourself cos the Maniac just got hosed.
This version doesn't care if the opponent has Leyline of Sanctity, Bojuka Bog, Tormod's Crypt etc., you can win all the same.
So yeah, it's risky, but a win in any format of the game, multiplayer or otherwise, by turn 3 is something I wanna make work better.
I understand the overall concept, its just not my flavor. I always prefer midrange decks, for their versatility . I use the stick in a control deck and it just oozes power. Just having it out is often more threatening than any creature. Just be prepared to counter defend it if you decide to use it. ( or if you can handle colorless mana, use buried ruin to get it back. Good luck
This is a sound strategy, but if you are running this style, you need to run a single card backup. play to your strength, but i would suggest adding a card with some kick.
I couldn't agree more.
I have Thought Lash in there to back up the Shift, but there's no other cards that could do anything close to the Maniac. Maybe I could chuck in a single Illusions of Grandeur & a single Donate into the sideboard?
Or I could splash some white or black for something like Living Wish, Death Wish or just use Cunning Wish should it get removed, or I chuck in a really unfair creature maybe?
This awesome i have all these cards ever really thought to put em together i always thought of doint black and blue in this style.
I agree on what you said with wall of tears and wall of frost both very effective walls. And iso hron scepter is just unfair. Other than that i dont really have alot of options to offer. This would probably pick me apart lol
I had black in this deck originally. For Demonic Consultation.
It's vulnerable. No defence! But i've been havin fun with it.
I propose Dispel instead of spell pierce, since people will tend to kill your maniac at the same time as you can't draw anymore crads and let y ou die, thus, instant, thus dispel is good. But I never tested your deck.
Check out my deck ^-^
Yeah I never thought of that.
Dispel is a much better option for same turn as the Maniac, and doesn't have the drawback of "pay two".
That said, It's highly situational....but I will definitely pop some in.
Yeah, self-mill is never a realm in which I dabbled much at all. I've always been fascinated by it, though. I know that a friend or two of mine built Standard self-mill decks that used Mirror-Mad Phantasm and either Phantasmal Image or Seance or something similar to that, but I personally think your way is much more efficient (not to mention quicker). Lotus Petals are always fun if you're still looking to up the speed you can combo out.
Have you tried this against a straight-up burn deck?
Now that you mention it, no.
That would be the obvious downside of a deck like this.
I'll have to test it against a decent burn list and see how it goes against a burn deck that knows when you use their burn, and knows the tricks this deck has.
Some of the really good burn decks can toast you by turn 3 to 5, depending on what other cards they're running, so I may just end up putting in a single Delusions of Mediocrity, sideboard some Hydroblast maybe?
Dunno - I'll test it out. Cheers.
If you're going the more casual route, check out my creature-combo deck. :-P
Check this deck out. Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=286845. I made it when M12 came out. And i revised it when the Innistrad Block came out.
Congrats on making the front page. :)
I wasn't aiming for it - just looking to make my deck a bit better with some helpful advice.
Arachnophobia at it's finest this will give you opponents the fear of spiders within minutes!
Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=330832
Just add cavern of souls and maybe side board some spellskites.
Cavern of SOuls would be great.
No that's wrong, they'd be flippin awesome. What a card!
But.......they're a little pricey!!!!
I was trying to keep this deck competitive, quick and relatively cheap.
The Ancient Tomb's are the most expensive card, followed by Daze.
Apart from the Maniac & Shift, the whole decks' made up of common/uncommon's.
Boseiju, Who Shelter's All may be another alternative, as it'll make my shifts/counters etc. uncounterable.
But yeah - great suggestion mate - I'm not swish enough to drop $80+ on 4 cards though.
check out leveler, a sick self mill creature.
I did try it out in this deck - as a back-up for the Maniac.
It does the job, but I found most of the time it was too slow.
If I was gonna make it work I would need to include more creature defence, which would make the deck a whole lot slower.
I NEED SINGLETONS for this teamwork Deck
I'm just going to leave this here.
Okay, so I gave this a trial run - over at MTG online (I'm *weedslave*) - and I'm surprised how consistent it's been. Sorry to anyone I've played, I'm just starting out on MTGO as of this morning, so I'm very slow!!! ...still workin it all out.....
So far, provided I have my combo pieces within the first three turns, I usually win.
The main problem it seems to have is not against burn (I have Dispel), but aggro decks like goblins, or against land destruction decks. Land destruction is harsh!!!
if anyone can think of anything to add/remove let me know
Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=333701
Give that bitch a Leveler.
Laboraty Maniac LOVES Leveler.
Yeah I know, but it's just not fast enough.
Drop it on turn 4 or 5, and I'll have to mana left to counter/draw etc. if I don't have a *free* one in hand.
I'm sure there are better ways to make this deck work.
The games where this deck wins, it does it easily. But the ones where I can't find my combo I just get owned...badly.
So I'm thinking of including something a bit mor unfair.
Ancestral Knowledge can nuke the top 10 cards of my library, giving me good draw, and it can give me a small library after I've dropped the Shift. More useful than Tormod's Crypt, although the Crypt is better agianst reanimator of course.
Another thing I noticed, is that the deck really struggles against aggro & stompy if they're running land destruction or counter. Sundering Titan out on turn 3 recently was horrible!
So i'm thinking of putting back in some Augury Owl's just for protection and scry.
i'll put my Flash Fire deck against it..but i like the tricks your deck has...mine is a 3 - 5 turn winner as well...
I'll have to search for it.....
turn 3-5 win are the decks I like most, quick games' a good game!
A very good deck but your sideboard can only have 15 cards in it also you may only have 4 copys max of a card.
I know...still haven't got that sorted yet.
nice deck. i would get rid of the street wraith, brainstorm, 1 muddle the mixture and 1 daze. add 2 delver of secrets, 2 curse of the bloody tomb and replace the brainstorm with thought scour
I'm not sure you see how my decklist interacts?
Brainstrom & street wraith are very important to how it works, and both improve consistency. The wraith is a *free* draw card, useful cos cycling effects can't be countered by many cards at all.
Delver isn't a good fit at all. It does nothing to improve draw consistency.
Curse of the Bloody Tomb is tricky as it's an upkeep effect, and I want to win instantly.
Daze (or another cheap counter like Spell Pierce) & Muddle the Mixture is essential.
Having transmute for Ancestral Knowledge or Paradigm Shift is nice, having a counter attached is nice too. In testing, the maniac is ALWAYS a target for instant removal, so instant's are gonna be necessary to either counter or to draw my way to a win.
I did think about Thought Scour.
After I've cast the Shift, I wanna put down the Maniac and cast draw spells to win in that same turn.
I'd preferably want instants with cheap casting costs.
Thought Scour looks useful for this, the same way as Brainstrom. The problem is, Thought Scour also increases the size of the graveyard before I cast a shift, and it doesn't help me get the cards I need like Brainstorm. The reason I have all the cards like Opt & Augury Owl is to avoid ditching what I need into the GY.
Ideally, I want the graveyard to be fairly small before I shift, so post shift, I can cast the Manaic, and easily draw only a few cards to get the win. The larger the graveyard, pre-shift, the harder it is for me to win, especially if I draw into land or other stuff that denies me winning that turn.
would you be able to help me with my EDH
Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=339745
It's a SAC deck based on abusing Bloodghast.
I like it, great deck ! I wanted to make a deck like this but i don't really want to copy you per say i want to throw in green. I will let you know how i did mine !
Check it Out , i wanted green in it ! My Manic Version
Hello, very nice deck! quite similar to my Lab Shift deck (vintage). I see you are using some kind of "free" cycling, I am going to try it in my deck too, should allow me to win one turn earlier, which would be huge! I will also test Ancestral Knowledge and Tought Lash as they look like they could work well (Tought Lash for slower games, as it allows you to wait for the opening in multiplayer). Is the Shelldock Isle actually working for you? Looks a bit unstable to me...
Check mine out and feel free to ask about cards I chose to put there ;)
I made a similar deck. I would suggest putting in Fateful Showdown if you decide to put in anything red, since if you have no max hand size(which in my deck you don't) you can draw upwards of a third of your deck while also dealing a massive amount of damage to something.