WRECK YOUR DAY COMBO - Stuffy ..

How Else can this deck be improved? Should I add CounterSpells instead of Icy Manipulators? Should I play a Soul Ring? How Else can I get the combo Started? If Stuffy Doll get Taped how can I inflict the one Damage?

Please Give Advice and Thanks for any Comments.

Lotus petal, perhaps?

Interesting, mostly I see red and white Stuffy Doll decks, liking the blue instead, I would toss in some Pact of Negation for insurance just in case when your about to finish them off they don't have something up there sleeve. Plus, another card that would be neat to try in this deck is Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir, you could bring out Stuffy Doll then anytime with flash (Surprise!), plus they can only play spells on there turn. Also for mana I would try Azorius Signet and toss in some Remand's and Ponders (countering and drawing cards).

This deck is straight sick! I would play 4 Enlightend tutors, and a few mana ramps, like Sol Ring. Maybe incorperate green to help with the speed?

Something as simple as Llanowar Elf would help, there are a ton of other ramps in green also. Cultivate?

Also with Stuffy Doll, Tinker would be great in this deck, add some mana producing artifacts use them, sacrifice them, and play Tinker. Search for Stuffy Doll and put it right into play.

AH, thats a sweet idea. The Azorious signet would work well. Maybe I could even throw in a few of those artifact lands so I dont impede into my 40 for non land as much.

True, plus toss in Mystical Tutor to search for Enlightened Tutor or Tinker almost like a doubling search engine. But, now the thing that worries me about this deck is -1/-1 counters, Stuffy Doll being a 0/1 it gets one counter it's done. You may think of tossing in some Slagwurm Armor or Holy Strength in your sideboard as a just in case.

Hmmm Damn, you're right about the -1/-1. Deffinately gonna need a sideboard.

Plus, I just noticed you are running Orim's Chant, I would take out the Icy Manipulator's and replace them with Isochron Scepter and copy Orim's Chant and you would be untouchable.

No, you wouldn't be able to search for Sol Ring with Mystical Tutor only sorceries and instants but, for added creatures I would toss in Trinket Mage, a 2/2 plus ables you to search for a artifact 1 or less mana cost, so there could be your Sol Ring searcher.

Isochron Scepter is pretty wicked I run it in a black deck with Go for the Throat.

That sounds like a sick combo. I'm keeping that one a secret from my friends haha. Well, I added some artifact lands. (they are listed with the artifacts which is dumb) That should help with Tinker. Need to add Isochron still. Do you think its worth adding 1 or 2 still even if im only running holy day instead of Orim's Chant?

oh yeah, Holy Day every turn so they can't attack, or another wicked idea is (Silence) with Isochron Scepter, play it on there main phase so they can't even play spell that turn so pretty much freezing there turns.

Yeah it is a dick move mrbig but, it is pretty funny to see the look on the other guys face when you pull it off, lol.

Added Isochrons. That'd be cool to play with any of my instants. Its a shame Tinker is restricted to 1. :(

Yeah, I mostly play with a bunch of buddies who all play deck with about anything, except Unglued and Unhinged unless said. I go to FNM about every other week and play standard or whatever they call for but all in all it's about having fun.

Yeah, I just play with a bunch of my friends but we still try to stick between Vintage and Legacy. I've never gone to an FNM, don't really know what it is. I know its FridayNightMagic but is it like official or what? Maybe I should just be google searching this...

Depends a few I have been to are pretty open to all, but it's mostly block releases (only that block) or standard.

What if instead of Slagwurm armor I played Lightning Greaves? I could just unequip and re-equip when i needed to cast my enchants or tap since it has 0 cost equip. Gives it shroud. And just ignore my question. I googled it.

That would work having shroud and a very good idea, there is the chance of cards that target all creatures with -1/-1 and that would include him like Soul Snuffers or Black Sun's Zenith, it isn't (targeting) Stuffy Doll, so if they were played the stuffy would die from -1/-1 counters.

Yea your right, Slagwurm is still prolly the way to go. Although the lightning greaves let me protect from exile spells. It's a trade off. perhaps Ill put both in sideboard and play depending on deck type.

But, that is were your counter spells would fall into place :)

if it's infinite damage, won't it get caught in a loop, therefore ending in a draw?

Yeah I would give it ago, besides the chances of them having those cards in a deck is pretty slim, you could even toss in a Pithing Needle or even better Meddling Mage (and have a 2/2 creature) to stop the cards even being played.

Can you explain how this creates unlimited damage? I see it doing only 2 damage to itself per turn. which means 2 damage to target player per turn... how is this unlimited? Sorry I don't quite see how this works out.

421. Handling “Infinite” Loops

421.1. Occasionally the game can get into a state in which a set of actions could be repeated forever. The “infinity rule” governs how to break such loops.

421.2. If the loop contains one or more optional actions and one player controls them all, that player chooses a number. The loop is treated as repeating that many times or until the other player intervenes, whichever comes first.

421.3. If the loop contains at least one optional action controlled by each player and actions by both players are required to continue the loop, the active player chooses a number. The nonactive player then has two choices. He or she can choose a lower number, in which case the loop continues that number of times plus whatever fraction is necessary for the active player to “have the last word.” Or he or she can agree to the number the active player chose, in which case the loop continues that number of times plus whatever fraction is necessary for the nonactive player to “have the last word.” (Note that either fraction may be zero.)

Example: One player controls a creature with the ability “: [This creature] gains flying.” Another player controls a permanent with the ability “: Target creature loses flying.” The “infinity rule” ensures that regardless of which player initiated the gain/lose flying ability, the nonactive player will always have the final choice and therefore be able to determine whether the creature has flying. (Note that this assumes that the first player attempted to give the creature flying at least once.)

421.4. If the loop contains only mandatory actions, the game ends in a draw. (See rule 102.6.)

421.5. If the loop contains at least one optional action controlled by each player and these actions don’t depend on one another, the active player chooses a number. The nonactive player can either agree to that number or choose a higher number. Note that this rule applies even if the actions could exist in separate loops rather than in a single loop.

It repeats over and over dealing the damage to it's self then dealing it again and again over and over in an infinite loop of 2 damage.

So Wait does this mean the combo would result in a draw? Cause that's total B.S >:[

...sorry i ruined your whole idea, lol

Well shit... Now what? hmmm... Could i prematurely end the infinite just dealing a few thousand damage instead?

basically, the cards don't read "you may", giving you an option. the actions WILL follow out, and seeing how one will automatically trigger the other, it will never end. even when your opponent's life hits 0, because the action isn't resolved the game can't end.

sorry man, seems like a loop to me, unless i'm missing something.

I meant via the use of an Instant. Like Sword to plowshares or something similar.

Ok, what I have read the loop continues by choosing a number then removing (destroying the creature, enchantment process of the infinite loop) stopping the loop at the core of chosen number, huh? So, breaking the loop stops the loop and damage is done with chosen number decided?

ALright well, I play Legacy or Type 1 Vintage so maybe this rule isn't even implemented? I sure hope not. And I've never heard of it, or my father who has been playing in tournies since '93. Ill check official ruling.

seems more "cute" than practical.

Guilty conscience has a triggered ability that triggers whenever the enchanted creature deals damage. Stuffy doll also has a triggered ability that triggers whenever it deals damage. Stuff doll uses its activated ability to damage itself triggering guilty conscience and stuffy doll's ability. At this point the controller of stuffy doll and guilty conscience (assuming they are controlled by the same player, other wise they go on the stack in APNP order) chooses the order put the triggers on the stack. If stuffy doll's trigger goes on top (2nd) then it deals damage to the chosen player and guilty conscience triggers. That resolves dealing damage to stuffy doll and the loop continues until the chosen player reaches 0 life and loses due to state based actions (barring something like worship). If guilty conscience's trigger is placed on top then resolves and your back where you started with one of stuffy doll's triggers on the bottom of the stack.

The game is only a draw if the combo could loop forever with no change in the game state (using grindstone on someone with 2 progenitus as the only cards in their library for example). Because game loss for having 0 life is a state based action, what is on the stack does not matter.

Damn it infinite loop rule

The way I took the way they work together was that it would be only 1 damage from stuffy's tap and one from Guilty. Assuming they both resolve at the same time it would mean it only does two damage 1 time. It wouldn't result in a loop unless they resolve separately. Otherwise when you play an equipment that says, "Equipped creature gets +2/+1" and the creature has a original 2/2 then you would have to first do the 2 damage from the creature then add in the extra 2 from the equipment after combat. Meaning that the +1 toughness would really be useless and the creature would be destroyed if it was blocked by a creature with 2 attack. Otherwise the normal way of doing things were equipment and enchantments that are attached to creature resolve "at the same time" meaning that there is no infinite loop between stuffy and guilty. That is my understanding on it. Hope you followed.

However, if you got a creature to earn infinite damage and then somehow assign its damage to stuffy doll it would mean that target player took infinite damage. Which means an infinite damage combo is still possible, just not that way.

Noxwalrus has deleted this comment.

I'm going to research this a little more, so far I'm not sure. I thought the loop would continue until the other player was reduced to zero then damage would come to a holt, 2 on 2 on 2 until dead, but reading the infinite loop and some ruling it's questioned still.

I disagree. This deck sucks, and is illegal in every way to play! LOL, Great stuff! Wish I would have seen the combo first...

All in all Pariah is still a wicked card plus with the specter and stopping spells it still a wicked deck, plus you made front page so hopefully it didn't WRECK YOUR DAY COMBO, lol

Peace Everyone Going to bed. Thanks for frontpage and all the help.

No pro, still a sick ass deck :D

For a infinite combo that works look at my Artifact deck. It causes infinnite mana until I say not to. Then I use it to do whatever I want.

This deck's weaknesses are 1) the combo cards being countered, 2) Stuffy getting a -1/-1 counter, 3) Guilty Conscience being destroyed and 4) either card for the combo being exiled. How to solve this is simply to counter thier spell, so I suggest adding 4 to 8 counterspell cards.

Tossing in Counterspell's with the Isochron Scepter, is a wicked combo and Pact of Negation is still a great choice when going in for the kill just in case they have something in there hand.

Just on this "Infinite Loop" thing. The game ends as one person "loses" by getting to 0 life. I've played this same combo (stuffy doll + guilty conscious) on MTGO and it works and as soon as they hit 0 life the game ends. Now maybe its just a way the coding works, but I'm fairly sure even with an infinite loop, once a player wins or another player loses, the game ends, and all actions are cancelled. Its sorta like saying after you lose the game you can still play stuff. You can't. You've lose the game, actions can't be made. Same with you've won the game.

Just my thoughts...

But to be clear, the combo does work on MTGO if you would like that :P

And then what you could do in case i'm totally wrong: screw lightning greaves, let the combo fall, then after you've dealt enough damage with stuffy doll use path to exile.

omfg one of my friends at the school i am currently attending LOVES Stuffy Doll decks, he built one and i refuse to play him when he's using it, the combo is some real BS.

Ded you have a great idea, but what about instead of Boomerang, do Isochron Scepter with Remand counter the spell return it back to there hand and draw a card.

I decided to give a try at this deck, hope you don't mind. Let me know what you think, links below.

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=156182

I switched out 1 enlightened tutor for 1 mystical tutor. With that I could get out an Orim's Chant or Tinker or even search for an enlightened tutor if i needed to perhaps even a land if I really must.

She is a great card, I mostly like using her with a artifact land or cheap card and then use her ability to trade out a Darksteel or Blightsteel Colossus, also an idea you could try running Flooded Strand, great slimmer in this deck, play it sacrifice it get a land in play untapped and use it. Less cards to draw in your deck and better chances of getting something you really need.

Plus, I found a great guy for the Stuffy Doll, incase of -1/-1 counters Steel Overseer or also Energy Chamber just keep adding +1/+1 counters on him.

Scepter with Remand, would be more of a decoy (or a nuisance for the other player so probably first thing targeted) and ables you to draw cards as well, plus depending on there lands in play, they would have to pay double for each spell each turn if you keep bouncing it back to there hand, plus if so it would take them awhile to play something bigger giving you some time to play the stuffy combo, then game over.

Yeah, that is a bonus with Boomerang, I think I would stick with the Remand I always enjoy concept of drawing cards, but returning lands would be a pain (mostly beginning of the game) if they have to replay the same land over and over because you return it each turn.

Hey D, this is AB. If you're worried about having Stuffy Doll get tapped, you could put some Pemmin's Aura in your sideboard? It is a great blue enchant. It seems to me that this card fits in here perfectly. If you dont have your Orim's Chant out you can protect your Stuffy Doll with it. If you get attacked by a flying creature you can give the Doll Flying and then block with it, and initiate your loop that way, and you can just untap it aswell. It could also give you a chance to play multiplayer with Stuffy Doll. You could give it +1/-1 and kill it and then find a way to get it back out of your graveyard and then play it again and pick a new target after you have eliminated your first one.

hmm... playing in multiplayer, you could always think about Followed Footsteps, copying the Stuffy Doll every turn picking new target, or the same doubling (tripling and beyond) up the damage.

Bonzai820 has deleted this comment.

yeah, but that is always one more Stuffy Doll they have to deal with, plus it only cost two mana to play, so it has it's bonus, you could always toss it in the sideboard and try it out in multi games, I tossed one in my deck so far it plays pretty well, plus use one as a blocker and the other as your combo set-up.

Easy and imba combo! Can't believe i haven't thought of that before :D

Btw, would love if people could check out my new dragonauts fast win deck:
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=157636

improve the mana flow a bit.

Also, This combo would work, http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtgcom/academy/31