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show and tell + natural order
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I like it it/hate it! It looks very good, but I have a couple of concerns...I'm a math nut that use statistical formulas to build my tournament decks, so I will share a couple of things that jumped at me:To take full advantage of 4 FoW in any deck you NEED a minimum of 16 other cards in the deck to be Blue, anything lower than that you will pitch a FoW to a FoW at some point... (Pact of Negation. Yes, I know I'm beating a dead horse but it is just damned good in your deck!)I understand the Vein, (not sure 1 makes a difference though), but the Arbor is just off. It has too many flaws to justify its use. You will never underestimate the power of a basic land after a turn 2 Wasteland trigger followed shortly by a sideboarded Back to Basics, (common Folk sideboard card), or even something as simple as a sneaky Price of Progress after a horde charge.There is quite a bit of self inflicted pain here with the fetchlands, Tomb and Thoughtseize. Self ping beyond 4 is generally suicide against a turbo/burn that dont give a shit about hand disruption as it is a card for a card and it will swing/sling for close to 30 on turn 3, (you give my Goblin deck 5 free damage and you better win unconditionally on turn 3 because I know I will grill you if you dont, plus I'll have a handfull of blasts in hand after sideboarding for game 2 and 3 to boot).I'm not sold on your sideboard either: You really should consider Living Wish and stash a copy of each of your Big'uns for both easy retreival and security, (Extirpates in a discard deck is killer), and keeping a Blightsteel Colossus in the board for those insta-kill situations is not a bad idea either. 3 Grips are out of control, what are you expecting to face that requires that many and what are you going to pull for all them? 3 Needles are also too many, what abilities will choke you up so bad that you 3 needles? 1 Duress is just junk, how is that going to make a difference? I know Dredge is not as popular in Legacy anymore because of the board hate but you have nothing! Oh, and you still have to remember those pesky goyf/mongoose decks.After just reading my post i realized that I did not mean to come out THAT negative, I really like the deck but I think you can make it quite a bit better with just a couple of tweeks...My 2 cents, take it for what it is worth...
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constructive criticism is fully appreciated. no worries.now to address a few things- there's 21 blue sources and i dont mind pitching force to force if it wins me the game. iv played this deck ALOT, and have yet to run into a problem. again, pact doesn't work because i need 2 turns to swing. granted most people scoop and those 2 turns don't happen, but technically the opponent wont die untill 1 or 2 swings.- crystal vein is fine, because i only pop it the turn im trying to go off.- dryad arbor is actually super TECH against edict effects. in response to the edict i pop my fetch, grab arbor and sac that instead of my big guy. also i can sac it to natural order if my dorks get killed. dryad arbor is essential to any NO deck. lilliana is everywhere and arbor gives you enough time smash her to bits.-wasteland does alot less damage when your running 2 sets of mana dorks, and lotus petals- the self damage has never been an issue either. when i daze your aether vial, thoughtseize your goblin lackey and drop emmy or pro t3 your goblin deck has no chance of winning. depending on if i cracked a fetch or used an ancient tomb, i did about 5 damage to myself. how do you plan on swinging through emrakul/progen? burn you play around and it usually fizzles. or you just race with a t1/t2 emmy/progen. i havent had a problem with burn ever. - your right about the k-grips in the side. those aren't even what im actually playing, i just never switched it on here i guess.. x_x'thats basically my meta flex slot. im currently running divert, to help with all the BUG and Jund decks. helps against burn also, but burn isnt much of a challenge ever anyway. the sideboard usually changes around though.-pithing needle in the side is for things like karakas, jace, the mind sculptor. things that basically auto win against this deck, and get played alot maindeck. its not even sideboard hate, its hate you see everywhere. also pithing needle auto wins against some combo decks. there was a point where rest in piece/helm was gaining popularity and pithing needle shuts that off completely.- duress is incredible. do you play legacy? stops all sorts of combo pieces, counterspells, and most hate.-dredge is a good deck but not consistent enough for me to worry about, and i dont see it enough to worry about. the sideboard is meta dependent. surgical extraction does a fine job at slowing down dredge though. get bridge and they dont have much going on. also. you can just race dredge with an emmy or progen-tempo decks ( goyf/ mongoose decks) backed with force of will, daze, stifle, etc is by far the biggest challenge. if they can get any beater out and stop me from comboing with their buttloads of disruption im done for. abrupt decay is decent in that match at killing their beater but i never feel overly confidant going up against any sort of tempo variation .thanks again for your input. iv put more testing into this deck than you can imagine, and every choice iv made has a reason. but you have made some decent points that ill put some serious thought into! >:D
Your deck, (and its variations), is the reason I dug up one of my old tempo decks and started fiddling around with it. I was sick and tired of running into a variety of these decks everytime I went anywhere and needed an answer that would perform consistently against it. (There is that love/hate relationship again) Besides my Goblin deck containing Goblin Piledrivers laughing hysterically in the face of Progenitus before they Fling themselves at you, (yes, it is still very dependent on the first 8 cards and does need a Lackey or Vial to hit the table to take off), tempo is the only thing I have played that can dominate this. (Relic of Progenitus does do a number on goyf tho...) My point about Duress is that 1 in the board of a deck with 4 Thoughtseize in the main does not scare anyone as its chances of ever resolving against a deck type you need it to resolve against are next to nil... (Have you ever played Cabal Therapy in this deck?)I'll grant you the Arbor, did not consider how Lilliana messes with you...
Turn one: ancient tomb, lotus petal, show and tell, emrakul. lol You might need more targets for FoW in the deck.
this deck pulls insanely consistent t1-t2 emmy/ progen. >:Dand yeah, about Fow, thats one thing suggested to me alot. honestly though i havent had problems pitching to force. you gotta remember, im also running 8 cantrips, so you just filter the things you need. including progen and Fow itself, i have 21 blue sources. which i agree is living on the edge haha. but i seem to squeeze by just fine somehow.
holy crap this deck is good but it makes my bank acount scream in terror