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open with a dork and ramp into knight or geist. use snare to stop your opponents early power plays like goyf and bob. it aslo handles snapcaster mage and opposing mana leaks, rune snag, etc. Basically just get an early clock out, keep it alive and smash in a few times for victory.
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I honestly don't know how to build a straightforwards tempo deck in Bant. I've never bothered to try in Legacy, and in Modern the closest I came was with a Blue Zoo deck that ran Punishing Fire. Ethan will probably be a lot better at helping you than I can. I really don't know what to make out of this list, except that in very cursory testing it feels a bit weak overall.
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i agree. not owning goyf is killing me. the lack of real cantrips is killing me. the lack of wasteland, daze, force is killing me. hahahaha.
It's not so much that you don't have 'goyf even, I think it's that a REAL tempo design just isn't entirely possible in Modern.
agreed. ethan was explaining to me on another list, shadow of doubt, basically being moderns stifle, shutting down fetch lands. but im not sure if a 2 mana stifle is worth it. although it does cantrip and thats pretty great. another biggy is serum visions and sleight of hand are NOWHERE near as powerful as ponder or brainstorm. neither help flip delver, and they both baaarely help my draws. i saw U/w tempo list running pride of the clouds, delver, judges familiar, squadren hawk , spectral possession, midnight haunting that looked bad ass. i might end up trying something like that
I'd rather say that Trickbind is the Stifle of Modern, but my opinion is pretty much the same as yours. I don't want to pay two mana for it. Shadow of Doubt is mostly good because it shuts out Valakut, but if I'm expecting enough of it that I won't play any of my usual lists, I'd probably just build a random D&T/ww deck. UW tempo is an idea, but I'd still probably rock RUG if I tried my hand at a real tempo idea in this format.
Modern seems like a fun format, never gotten to really play it much. I do gotta say, your spells make me cringe thinking playing this deck one on one. I like the spell lineup. I dont think any of my advice will help ya out too much, never played this style of deck much. But if it helps cyclonic rift has been pretty effective in my eyes recently. But I like this deck, have you gotten to play test it yet? Do you run into any problems only running 8 creatures in here?
12 creatures ^_^ cyclonic rift def seems good, and could be worth testing. trying to keep the mana curve as low as i can though, even the 2 mana on azorius charm bugs me. but it does so much, its definitely worth while. but yeah modern does seem fun. im a complete and total newb when it comes to it though. haha. just trying to get into the format now pretty much. i love that you dont have to buy duels. and im so used to legacy, building a deck for modern is a whole new, and fun experience.
haha yea i meant to put 12, i noticed that after i posted the comment, i posted a comment trying to correct myself but i guess my computer decided not to =p Modern makes me happy to think about tho, a whole new world that wont cost an arm and a leg to play competitively =]
Okay, so, after reading some comments, hear me out; PLAY SHADOW OF A DOUBT. Why? Think about it. 2 mana to put them back a land and draw a card... yeah, sounds pretty good, but consider this; What are two of the most anticipated/tier decks you can expect to see in the field; Valakut and Jund. With the release of Deathrite Shaman, what are the jund decks doing? They're changing their landbase to more fetchlands to accommodate that. Jund's mana is garbage, and attacking their fetch lands AND drawing a card? Gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous. What's (usually) valakut's win con? Scapeshift, but a lot of lists run boseiju. Why counter it when you can just completely null the effect? At worst it's a think twice, and even then, it's so solid. I can't emphasize how much I think you need to run this card, especially if people start playing Gifts Ungiven again. Okay, so, time for the deck. Creatures; You will want 4x Snapcaster, hands down. He's an auto-4-of. Always. If you don't own the other 2, seriously try and find them. 3x Geist of Saint traft is usually good, and I seriously recommend adding the 3rd, especially where you don't own goyfs :( 3x Restoration Angel ; she's really good. Just a flat out solid card, that can't get bolted or Inquisitioned away, and she can reset your geist before damage during combat. 4x Knight of the reliquary, because you can do some seriously fun shit with this guy, and this way you can make your mana base awesome. I honestly don't like delver in this list. I think while it could be good, you'd be better off with something else. Preferably a tarmogoyf, but again, I understand why you can't. You could try like.. blade splicers, or wall of omens, or some combination of both, but believe it or not tempo decks aren't my thing at all. I've made so many Delver lists that you'd think by now I have a grasp on it, but I just know Burn and Disruption... not so much tempo :/ However, let's continue. I'm a total counter slut, so in this deck, with access to KotR, you can get silly. I'd try like, 2 cryptic command, which you can support with your knights, and in addition to this, you could try 4x mana leak, and 3x Spell snare. This deck I think could realllly use Spell Snare, because it needs to make it until the middle game to really be effective. Hell, you could even run 4. Jund will be a pain, for any deck (fml) so you could try like, 3x Mana leak, 3x Spell Snare, 2x Cryptic and 2x spell pierce, but like I said, I'm a counter slut and feel completely comfortable with 10 counters, hahaha. You want to run 4 path to exile, always. 3x Shadow of doubt (TRUST ME) And where this isn't really tempo anymore, but midrange, rather, you could get rid of the Vapor Snag and the Azorious Charm - charm's aren't really the best in modern, well, the newer ones, anyway. A really good card to have, lately, is Lingering souls. With KotR, you could put in like 1 swamp, and try it out? 3 - 4 LS have always done me well, but there may be other options. It all comes down to how you want to play. If you want to play super aggressive, maybe Naya holds better options, if you'd like to play Tempo, maybe USA holds better cards. Without goyf, the strong allure to green kind of dies.. D: But, the landbase is still cool with KotR, and you do get gaddok teeg and even qasali pridemage. Who knows, you can try a few things out :) However, lands you MUST run; 1x Vault of the Archangel (if you decide to splash black, this land is amazing) 2x tectonic edge (way better than ghost quarter) 2x celestial colonnade 5-6 fetches only 1 horizon canopy (the damage actually sucks) 1x Stirring Wildwood 2x Mystic Gate (cryptic) 1x Flooded grove (same deal) either 1x gavony township or 1x moorland haunt, your choice. then your choice of the other shocks and whatnot. You could also maybe run like, My mind's a little cloudy at the moment, and a lot of Bant things aren't really coming to mind, but basically, if you can just slam a geist and protect it, you'll get there. Maybe you want some board sweepers, like Supreme Verdict, but it all comes down to how you want to play. P.S, run 25 lands. This deck relies on KotR and Geist, so you NEED to get to 3 lands each time, Hope I helped :)
thanks for all the excellent advice! i agree with most everything your saying, i upped the lands to 23. the ghost quarter is there for any problem lands but also to pump knight more by destroying my own land. sacking a forest with knight, grabbing a ghost quarter, destroying another to pump him 3 can be a great play sometimes. added hierarch for ramp and exalted.also birds to really push the t2 giest/ knight. or t3 with snare/pierce. . not to sure on serum visons anymore. i would run goyf in that slot if i could, but maybe a set of qasali pridmage to push exhalted. i was thinking of rhox warmonk as a possible contender for that slot also. i think that lifelink might be pretty great. it really bums me out his art is so incredibly terrible though.. i like the idea of playing cyptic command, but i dont own them, and its something ill never use in legacy so i cant justify buying them really. : / i actually have never heard of gavoney township before, but its great, so thats added. still have some tinkering to do but i think its coming along.
Shadow of Doubt is going to be a huge thorn in my side while running Scapeshift! Thanks for pointing that out Ethan.. LOL You absolutely need more land, I agree with 25. Remember your not cheating out S&T turn two, like Legacy. You may want to consider a few Tree Top Villages.
Told you Ethan would be better help for this, if it's Modern, and not running LftL, I'm pretty much useless lol. The deck shaped into an x-Blade deck, which I dislike, but it's pretty damn solid. How is it playing for you Jack? Also, glad to see you've joined the ranks of "counter slut"s Ethan! It's a wonderful world when you're able to counter every move your opponent can make :D
Counter Slut, meet Thalia and Extirpate... http://www.myfacewhen.com/images/112 Jokes aside, Ethan puts forward a lot of good points, especially about Doubt. Jund is why we can't have nice things, so any way to hold them down is a good thing. In addition, Valakut is essentially a combo deck disguised as a ramp/midrange deck. Combo decks can't really do things twice...So throwing a giant ass monkey wrench in their plans like that will give you a huge advantage. One of the endless reasons I hate Modern is that without some critical cards, a lot of decks aren't available in any powerful form. One of these is Tempo, and the issue with that is it lets things like Jund run rampant. Jund is, to a legacy-style Tempo, a slow deck. This series of "checks and balances" in legacy is what makes it so good. Like WnB said, Tempo just doesn't exist in modern. Branches of it do, like X-blade, or any kind of Teeg, USA, or UZoo (kinda...gotta blur the lines here). It might help to shift around to grab parts of other "tempo" off-shoots instead of just trying to make an actual tempo. Lastly, be careful if you use Snapcaster. There's a hell of a lot of hate available to Snappy right now.
Even more enjoyable would be Smallpox and Extirpate. http://www.myfacewhen.net/view/22-aaaaaaaaaaay Shadow of Doubt is pretty slick, I've come to use it in my SB for my Poxless Pox projects. I already have a good match against Jund, by way of BG debauchery, but it gives me that little boost to be comfortable in the match. Being able to remove the "combo" from Valakut slows down the clock enough that have a shot, but that is still one of my worst matches other than Fish. :/ I still kind of regret making that list public. I actually enjoy Modern, but I will agree that the lack of a viable Tempo design is painful. I'd personally just be happy if they lifted the ban on Ancestral Vision, and maybe Punishing Fire. A better presence of UZoo, and UGx would do the trick against this Jund filled meta.
The price on this is crazy, considering it's a modern deck. Maybe i should just sell all my commander decks and jump into this format. The problem in doing that is i wanna build legacy U/R delver, aaaand if i play modern, i have to play jund. It's just to good. :P