I appreciate the impute but I have 4x Grip of the Roil 4x Engulf the Shore and 2x Send to sleep. I think I have enough defense. But since you brought it up do you have any ideas on how to make it better. I would love to know your ideas.
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Ya we kinda ranted on a little to much over a small thing. If you look at my deck I made mine a lot more competitive. I have answers to pretty much everything now that I talked through this.BTW I am not as experienced of a player as you with 20 years or whatever it was you said it was so... Ya.
Puschkin you are right about removal... There are some stuff that can kill you. I COMPLETELY missed Eidolon which justifies removal in itself. In my version of turbo fog, I have 4 side board Detention Spheres already but now I am adding some mainboard answers. I think we were coming form different perspectives. as you had more casual in mind where I was looking at the competitive scene more. Here is a list of every deck in the meta according to http://www.mtgtop8.com/ and weather or not it can beat fog + Witchbane Orb.AGGROEldrazi Aggro 30 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbAffinity 8 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbRed Deck Wins 4 % **CAN Beat Fog Witchbane Orb** (I completely forgot about Eidolon) Jund 4 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbMerfolk 2 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbZoo 2 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbJunk 2 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbHatebear 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbAura Hexproof 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbMono Green Aggro 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbMartyr Life 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbDredgevine 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbUR Aggro 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbRUG Aggro 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbTokens 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbBant 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbBoros 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbSelesnya Aggro 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane Orb4/5c Good Stuff 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbOther - Aggro 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbCONTROLUW Control 3 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbUrzaTron 2 % **CAN Beat Fog and Witchbane Orb** (Contingent of them having Annihilator). Lantern Control 2 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbValakut 2 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbUWx Midrange 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbEldrazi Control 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbBlue Moon 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbGrixis Control 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbGift Control 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbTooth and Nail 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbFaeries 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbThe Rock 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbSnow Red 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbElves Control 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane Orb (Shaman of the Pack targets, it gets blocked by the orbs).Other - Control 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbCOMBOCreatures Toolbox 8 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbInfect 4 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbLiving End 4 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbUR Storm 2 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbAd Nauseam 20 2 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbScapeshift 2 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbInstant Reanimator 1 % **CAN Beat Fog and Witchbane Orb** (Through the breach Emrakul)Jeskai Ascendancy 1 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbTwin Exarch 4 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbSunny Side Up 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbElemental Combo 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Withcbane OrbGenesis Wave 0 % Can't Beat Fog and Witchbane OrbIf you land a Fog and Witchbane Orb in modern against competitive decks they just roll over and die. The one thing I found I could lose to creature wise, can't be removed before you die, being Emrakul. I JUST became aware of another having the possibility of Red Deck Wins beating this deck. You have made your point and I agree, I just hope you can see where I was coming from... I just don't want to come off as an asshole who just didn't want removal, even though I came off as being one. The change I would make is -4 Heroes' Reunion and +2 Wrath of God and +2 Path to Exile.
Ok since you still disagree with me... let me do the math for you using a Hypergeometric Calculator which is just a fancy word for chance calculator... You can do the math yourself if you don't believe me using this link...http://stattrek.com/online-calculator/hypergeometric.aspxThese are the numbers I plugged into the calculatorPopulation (deck size): 60Number of successes in population: 16 (fogs) or 12 (draw artifacts).Sample size (cards draw at this point): 7(opening hand) + the number of other cards drawn.Number of successes in sample (how may fogs drawn): Whatever is needed by this turn.Ok so we can both agree you want to have at least 2 fogs effects in your hand by turn 4... If you are on the play, you have a 81% chance of drawing two or more fogs by turn 4. That is not bad odds. You have a 4/5 chance of this happening. However, from now on, you want to fog every turn. This means on turn 8, you want to have draw a total of at least 4 fogs. This is bad news as you will have a 55% chance of drawing 4 or more fogs by turn 8. We can both agree that that is badHowever if you draw 18 cards (7 cards opening, 7 drawn for draw step, 6 drawn off artifacts) by turn 8, your chance of drawing 4 fogs by turn 8 jumps back up to 80%. And if you play more than one drawing artifact which you have a 60% chance of doing, the success rate increases even more. Based off of this, you can see the artifacts are important.Now in order for this to happen you need to have drawn one of the artifacts by turn 3 or 4. If you have 12 artifacts in your deck you have a 88% chance of drawing one or more by turn 3. If you have 8 artifacts in your deck that number goes down to 75%. This means that cutting down on artifacts will cause this deck's success rate to go from 9/10 to 3/4 just by cutting 4 of the draw artifacts. YOU DO NOT WANT TO CUT ANY OF THE ARTIFACTS. However, you were right in cutting the Atlas for Rites of Flourishing. That does make sense as it has an immediate pay off. You were also wrong in the fact that he needs removal for your creatures that can kill without attacking. He has 4 Witchbane Orb in his sideboard and clearly no one is attacking him through all the fogs, so if you can name one creature that can kill without attacking or targeting him, I will resign this part of my case.
Puschkin you have made a lot of valid points and a lot of invalid points. Here is what I think...Valid Points:-Isochron Scepter needs to be in this deck... end of story.-Annihilator is a problem.-He needs enchantment and artifact removal, especially if he adds isochron... Because Stony Silence and Lantern Control.-He needs to improve his sideboard.-Mana Base needs fixingInvalid points:-You said needs creature removal. He does not. 99% of the eldrazi cast in modern with annihilator are Emrakul. You can't target emrakul so you don't need removal. The only solution I have found is ensnaring bridge but we aren't all made of money. On the topic of redcap combo he has 4 Witchbane Orb and any direct damage combo is now put to shit.-You said he needs less card draw. I think the card draw is fine. Forceing your opponent to draw cards is not bad anymore with fogs. If they have a combo deck you either fog it or stop it with Witchbane Orb plus, it pushes the closer to decking themselves. -Rites of Flourishing. Rites of Flourishing?Howling Mine. He would put in Howling Mine instead of Temple Bell. Plus, Otherworld Atlas is fantastic at any time past the first turn it is on the field. -I count 2 win-cons in the sideboard.My Points:-One word. Planeswalkers. It is a problem... I recommend banishing light in the board.-I will reiterate what Puschkin said. ISOCHRON SCEPTER.-Revamp mana and sideboard.
I am totally with freshswimmerboy. Isochron scepter would be killer in this deck.
If you have any questions feel free to ask them. I am also looking for recommendations for upgrades, I appreciate feedback.
Im gonna beat you. tee hee.
It will just be able to take out the annoying creatures really well and give that creature unblock able You can replace two shrapnel blast or one lighting strike and one shrapnel blast seeing you only have 8 artifacts and dark steel citadel can't be destroyed.
Burning Anger needs to be in this deck... just look into it...
Thx for the suggestion I put it in immediately... Great advice.
Ya the deck is agrrovating to play against to say the least XD.
A guy can dream...
I wish they would print them.
They put in Jace, the mind sculptor, such a beast.The one I'm looking forward to though though is time walk. Taking extra turns is sweet. Mana Drain is awesome too though...But you know they aren't printing but just going on magic online.
By cheap you mean jus not over $1,000 for a damaged P9.It will help but it will be like $100. Thats my guess.
Won'r hurt but it would make the deck a little expensive... ; )
@Nydria I din't even notice! Ya this would be a solid deck if you could pull it off then...
Well I have to say it is impressive but if you face a blue deck, your screwed. Dissolve, Cancel, Dispel, are all cards that wreck this deck.
I guess he does have both type of xenagos in the deck so...
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