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My attempt at a Dubious Challenge deck. Originally wanted to go Junk / Abzan (WBG) because of a personal dislike of blue, but cards like Peer Through Depths are just too efficient to ignore. Not 100% sure on the big threats, nor the quantity of key cards and would appreciate criticism of the Big beasties. Please don't suggest Noble Hierarch. I refuse to pay over $60 per card for a mana dork.
Play Challenge and (hopefully) reveal a big threat and Flickerwisp / Glimmerpoint Stag. This way, it doesn't matter what the opponent chooses, you will end up with the big threat.*Peer Through Depths tutors for Dubious Challenge. Effectively taking us to 7 Challenges mainboard. Birds of Paradise and Arbor Elf** supply us with early mana, allowing us to cast Challenge on turn three. *Remember, Dubious Challenge has the opponent choose first and puts his/her creature onto the battlefield first, then you get the other one. So, if the opponent chooses the threat, you get to "flicker" it, which returns it under the owner's control, and you are the owner. **Arbor Elf untaps forests. Breeding Pool and Temple Garden are forests. What this means is that Arbor Elf can effectively tap for any colour the deck needs.
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I think you need to restart the deck.First make sure that you draw dubious challenge during enough of your games.(May be fixed with serum visions or my fave sage of epityr)Then make sure you won't be interrupted at your plan.(discard or counterspells. thoughtseize/dispel) Third you toy with the amounts of big critters and bouncers.fourth fix the mana.fifth use whatever is left for alternate gameplans.
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Well, most of that means blue instead of black. Was avoiding Bant, but the more I think about it, the more Bant seems to be the best. Still going to keep the Ravnica duals + Arbor Elf thing, because Noble Hierarch costs WAY TOO MUCH MONEY!!!- Dimir House Guard + Pear Through Depths - Removal (Path stays)+ Counter / Draw / Scrying 6-7 flicker creatures 5-6 threats How's that?
I kicked out the Black in favour of the Blue.
I think I once tried out some eldrazi turbo thing that demanded big critters being played cheap through something else. I think I ended on 7-9 large critters, but if you go with scrying you may be able to land on 6, though you have to test it a bit. The number of flicker critters is probably around 5-6 if I should take a guess.By the way I releas v6 of the bridge-deck, which has included 2 lingering spirits at the cost of 1 collective brutality and 1 ensnaring bridge. I've also managed to finally build the sideboard...
Testing is the biggest part of deck construction. I plan on buying what I'm missing during Black Friday this year, so only time will tell what exact numbers I will end up with.
When I buy cards close to a tournament I usually buy 1 extra card than my research shows, because I might need more in a future deck or I may get new results supporting 1 more card for the deck.If you wont use noble hierarch, use ordinary elves, like the arbor elves you already got. Since your only way to win against the most aggressive decks will be to combo through, you need to do it at turn 2-3, which means elves and birds will be very important. Probably a mix of 5-6 of these. (8's too much)
Had a few test games on Xmage last night (against the stupid bot). I had more misfires off Dubious Challenge than I'd like. Considering working in two or three Congregation at Dawn. Fetch a mana dork, Flickerwisp, and a threat. Then arrange them so that the dork is on top to draw it, then Challenge into the other two.
How about cutting the bounce effect and relying on big critters alone?It's much easier to hit two large than it is to hit 50% a blink + 50% a large. Simple is always better...
The flicker effect is to counteract the biggest down side to Dubious Challenge: the opponent gets to take one of them.
Ah, but if all the creatures are large enough to win the game it shouldn't be a problem :DI know they aren't so large, but chancellor of the tangle could get you some early elves into play and a 6/7 ain't that bad. Besides it's 10 cards we are talking about. If a third of your deck is big critters you will get an average of three biggies with the dubious. You could make it into a different ponza deck, where elves will be able to hardcast your stuff.
Was considering including Utopia Sprawl for abuse with Arbor Elf. Will need to up the fetch count and lower the dual count in favour of more forests. Could even include Fertile ground and Voyaging Satyr. Another way to regain control of your creatures is Gruul Charm and Brooding Saurian. Gruul / Naya opens me up to the Inferno Titans I have too, among other Gruul / Naya big beasties.
Got it. The key is to fill the deck with creatures that only let's you get the advantage:Myojin of life's web is a good example. (you get to play all your biggies if you get it into play)Moldgraf monstrosity is another. (you block their biggie or kill your biggie to get 2 biggies)kruphix, god of the horizons. (If they choose it they get a 4/7, if you get it you can double your mana every second turn.)worldbreaker (when it dies, you can use it's graveyard recurring)Using creatures like this will allow you to cut down the flickering...If your deck is the only deck to really gain something from playing any of the large critters, then you wont mind that the opponent has a large critter as well.Some other cards to consider:boldwyr heavyweights (If you get two of these with dubious you prosper most)doomgape (You have lots of elves)Dread defiler (only helps you)supreme exemplar (if you can get some elementals? maybe. might not work)
Another approach would be to let them choose the "best" creature, only to play a lowcost card that suddenly turn the best into the worst. (or you may have already set up something like æther spellbomb long before)
Rough Gruul build taking into account what you suggested:http://www.mtgvault.com/dedwards/decks/gruul-challenge/Naturally, testing is required.
Idk, that's my first reaction...The premise and the colors look good (for a freaking Dubious Challenge deck that is), the threats that you want to get also seem quite well diversified, I don't like that Norn is not present but you can't have it all I guess....Flickerwisp is quite the nice way to break the synergy, I really don't know what to add, yeah, nothing...
Elesh Norn was in, until I realised that if the opponent chooses it, any Elves; Birds; and Flickerwisps that where on the battlefield before I cast Challenge will die before I can flicker it. Very counter productive. Similar reasoning for not including Massacre Wurm.
So, I know this deck is old, and the idea is probably done with... But I want to know your thoughts on this...https://www.mtgvault.com/thevanished/decks/honorable-challenge/
Did you ever nail this?