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Legacy Elves
This deck has been viewed 66,414 times.
Summoner's Pact really helps this deck go off.
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I feel the same way. What's your opinion on Spirit Guides?
Not needed, same with Pendelhaven.
I see Spirit Guides useful, only to pop early. The only thing is, I'm not sure how consistent that would be.
I honestly don't think it's the best plan, cause if you draw it off Glimpse it's a dead draw most likely. Pact will give you gas when you need it.
You could always play it as a creature on down the road, but I see what you mean by not having it in hand, and drawing it too early. It could cause a waste of a Glimpse
And four mana isn't what you wanna do when combo-ing off, even if it's for another body.
True, true Pendlehaven would be better swapped out for a Forest. Can't bounce Pendlehaven with a Quirion Ranger.
I think you could shave off two lands and go two Summoner's Pact.
I'll try that out. Thanks for your advice =)
No problem. Also, burn is one of your worse match ups so prepare a bit for it.
I've already experienced that, it's rough. The only card I can think of, that could help, is Dense Folige
Biggest issue is even with that, the burn goes to your face. I played straight burn in Legacy, and never lost to elves simply cause you kill the mana producers and burn their face.
I agree that this deck doesn't have a lot of answers for other decks. Burn, Control and turn one decks are tough to go up against.
Well against combo, you can run Thorn of Amethyst. Shouldn't slow you down, but should stop them.
Not a bad idea. All this burn talk, wants me to through a few white leylines in ;)
kaim_arouet has deleted this comment.
Honestly, Thorn isn't terrible against burn. They don't run a ton of lands normally, since they fetch a lot, and turning bolts into two mana spells seems good. Leyline just means they kill all your creatures.
Seems Thorn is the best possible answer to burn
I never really thought of it as such, but yea it is. Totally never expecting it... new tech just happened?
Yea...I believe we've may have started a revolution...
When you start the combo on turn 2 and you begin to run out of mana you can tutor a ESG with the Summoner's Pact. This can ensure a 2nd turn win in some cases if you have the other pieces in hand.
Very nice. BTW, one conversation just landed your deck on the upcoming page. My opinion: Add Summoner's Pact, remove Emrakul and Fauna Shaman. You might end up milling yourself with Regal Force. I don't think you should take it out, but just be careful. Very nice, I must say. Would you mind looking at a modern deck of mine? http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=287959
Fauna Shaman would be one of the first ones I would think to take out, but if I did, I would have to also take out Progenitus. She is the only way to pitch him back into the library to green sun into him. But I rarely do so, usually just go all the way for Emrakul. I feel Emrakul is a MUST in this deck. You can easily elf ball into him. Besides, he is the best elf ;)
Emrakul shouldn't come out. It's a great end to the Elf Ball.
Agreed Kaim I forgot to comment regarding Regal Force, thewuest. The way I pilot this deck is by casting or Green Sun Regal Force earlier on during mid pop, just to refuel my hand. Most of the time, once about 10 creature are on the field, that's plenty. I never drop a Regal Force too late, because you're right, milling out could happen.
I have Played this elf trash all day long and it beats the shit out of all my bullshit decks !
All are not easy wins, sir
Eldrazi Monument could help a bit.
I've seen Eldrazi Monument in a different build of elves. They tend to run Elvish Archdruid, Elvish Promenade and Imperious Perfect. In that kind of build, Monuments are a game winner most of the time. It's just in my build, I'm afraid it may slow the deck down a bit.
Pacts are great, but in my experience Elvish Spirit Guides are disappointing, worse than Lotus Petal. You'll never need or want to cast Spirit Guide for the 2/2, but I've definitely Stormed into lethal Grapeshot off the +4 storm from 4 lotus petals. (Remember a Petal can pay the R for a Grapeshot, but a Spirit Guide cannot!) Your intuition is probably correct to run non-Forest mana sources for acceleration, though -- I run 4 Lotus Petal and I'm always pleased to turn one up. The extra speed is nice now that High Tide is seeing play again. I also run two Fauna Shaman and 0 Joraga Warcaller, because the +1/+1 stuff always seems to be a win-more when I've already got the game balled up. Zenithing X=10 for Progenitus is a cool idea, new to me; I might go do some playtesting with it. I always just used Zenith as Heritage Druid for GG, with the option of snagging an Arbor for G if I'm desperate. Consider, for a twist, a fourset of Living Wish, putting one Pendlehaven and one Heritage Druid in the sideboard. The consistency you can achieve as a result is somewhere between "broken" and "OMFG SO BROKEN." Plus, running Living Wish lets you put bombs in the sideboard. You can do some broken gameplay screwery with Living Wish -- I keep a single Phyrexian Revoker to shut down stupid junk like Grindstone, a single Lodestone Golem to hose storm combo, and a single Vexing Shusher to hose permission control. I also always put Emrakul in my sideboard, 'cause I just Wish for him and then pay the 15. (Against heavy control, he gets put in the mainboard games 2-3.) The land bombs you can run 1 of are pretty delicious too. Living Wishing for a Karakas in response to an Emrakul, or a Bojuka Bog to hose Reanimator with is *hilarious* fun -- I never run Leyline of the Void anymore, neither Reanimator nor Dredge can stop the Wish-for-Bog. Also, the most incredible response to problem lands like Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale and Rishadan Port? You can run a single Wasteland in the SB. I run three Summoner's Pact, but usually would prefer a Fauna Shaman, and lately I've been testing without Summoner's Pact. The Living Wish thing is doing a lot of my Summoner's Pact work for me, but for 1G instead of 2GG. Hope this helps! Thanks for posting this! --Salient
The only reason I was considering Spirit Guides, was for speed. The earliest I could pop, without Spirit Guides and Petal, is turn 2. (given I don't see burn or control) But after discussing it, Spirit Guides seem less consistent. I would have to basically have the perfect hand, and I rarely to that happening. So I do agree with you there. I haven't tried using grapeshot, but I do sideboard 2 of them. Reanimator is very popular in my meta, and it would be a good answer for Blazing Archon. I also having tried Lotus Petals either. To get R I use Birchlore Ranger. I run 2 Joraga Warcaller for two reasons. First, he is a one drop that helps start/continue elf balling. And second, sometimes my library starts to run very thin during the pop. I feel like it's a better decision to bounce a Warcaller with Wirewood Insect, and re-play the Warcaller kicked with Concordant Crossroads on the field. I know that most of my creatures will be tapped from elf balling, but Nettle Sentinel and a super kicked Warcaller usually does the trick. I ran 1 Pendlehaven at one point, but decided to take it out. Rarely got to use it (besides for mana). I've never considered Living Wish, it's a neat idea. I may throw a few in and do some play testing with them. I thought about only running 2 Summoner's Pact. The would believe the mana difference would be than big of a deal, seeing where it is elves, and I plan to go for the win the same turn I use them. Thank you for posting your thoughts and ideas! You've opened up a few more options for me.
I personally like GIlt-Leaf Archdruid because it screws up an opponent and gives you card draw.
That is a good card, but I think it may be too risky running in this deck because of the high casting cost. Thanks for you input =)
wow this deck is fast ! wow you sir Are plague on the curious
I'm diggin the idea man...summoners pact is genius, but what about the mana though??you are playing it under the assumption that you will have enough mana to not lose...
They are just used when I run out of fuel. Most of the time, I'm going for the win the same turn I use them.
ok i see...regardless its a cool deck
Thanks for commenting
that's a reasonably affordable build, looks effective and competitive. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=288553 Comments or ideas?
I didn't see anybody has said anything about it yet but your first turn play is in violation of rule 212.6j if an object is both a land and another card type it can only be played anytime that a land could be played. Can't be played as a spell. Also can't be played by a spell that lets you play with a creature.
Because it's absolutely legal. Dryad Arbor is a green creature, therefore targetable by Green Sun's Zenith.
(Dryad Arbor isn't a spell, it's affected by summoning sickness, and has ": Add to your mana pool".) it's considered a land first and primarily.
He never said he was tapping it turn one for mana. Forest, tap, GSZ for Arbor, end turn. Nothing is breaking a rule.
rulings: 5/1/2007: Forest is a land type. Dryad is a creature type. 5/1/2007: Dryad Arbor is played as a land. It doesn't use the stack, it's not a spell, it can't be responded to, it has no mana cost, and it counts as your land play for the turn. 5/1/2007: If a Dryad Arbor gains flash, or you have the ability to play Dryad Arbor as though it had flash (due to Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir or Scout's Warning, for example), you can ignore the normal timing rules for playing a land, but not any other restrictions. You can't play Dryad Arbor during another player's turn, and you can't play Dryad Arbor if it's your turn and you've already played a land. 9/22/2011: If Dryad Arbor is changed into another basic land type (such as by Sea’s Claim), it continues to be a creature and a Dryad.
He doesn't break a single one of those rulings. He is a creature as well as a land, and he is using a spell to bring it to the battlefield. The ruling that supports that is "305.4. Effects may also allow players to "put" lands onto the battlefield. This isn't the same as "playing a land" and doesn't count as a player's one land played during his or her turn." You realize this is a very common play in Legacy, and no judge has ever said you can't do it. In the reasoning to ban Green Sun's Zenith from Modern, Wizards even said "On turn one, this can give the acceleration of a Llanowar Elves by getting a Dryad Arbor" as a direct quote from http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/feature/161b&dcmp=ilc-mtgrss If the mothership used it as an example to ban a card, seems like it'd be legal.
Q: I have Primordial Sage in play. Can I choose to play Dryad Arbor as a creature spell so I can draw a card with my Sage? A: No. Druid Arbor can only be put into play using your one-per-turn super-special land-playing ability. You cannot play it as a spell, so there is no way you can use it to trigger your Primordial Sage. Quote: Originally Posted by 212.6j If an object is both a land and another card type, it can be played only as a land. It can't be played as a spell.
He's not casting it at all, he's putting it directly into the battlefield. You're allowed to put lands directly onto the battlefield through effects. The effect of Green Sun Zenith resolving is to put a green creature onto the battlefield. It was a major reason NO RUG was allowed to exist in Legacy. Here's an forum post exactly about this. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=371246
I've seen people cast Green Sun to put in Dryad Arbor on their first turn in legacy tournaments. So I figured if they were able to do it, with judges around, why can't I? I'm not saying any of you are wrong, just making a point. Thanks Kaim for getting my back
also your biggest weakness discard like mine where i play a traumatize second turn and lay out keening stone third then play its ability fourth and the first four test draws of your deck i did had no mana till the third or fourth turn personally i would cut some creatures and few more mana add bramble wood paragon get rid of the fyndhorns everything else you have one of and the insects and throw stuff in that pumps up your elves
joraga treespeakers and elvish archdruids get rid of the summoner's pact
just because they let you get away with something doesn't mean its not against the rules
So you think at a tournament, with thousands of dollars on the line, judges would allow hundreds of players to repeatedly break the rules? Yea, that makes sense.
in sports like baseball and football where millions of dollars are on the line players take steroids and teams cheat and do they get away with it yes until somebody says something
You honestly believe judges watching every single play made wouldn't catch such a break in the rules? This is different from your example because athletes aren't being watched all the time. Which one of these situations sounds more likely? Hundreds of people, across thousands of games, are all cheating and getting away with it, sometimes on film? Or that you're wrong on this ruling?
The key word is "Put". When something is put into the battlefield it pretty much gets to ignore the rules and nothing triggers. It is not being played or cast. So essentially you cast green sun zenith, it resolves and then Druid Arbor or any green creature appears on the battlefield. By the logic you are using terramorphic expanse and all other fetch lands are non functional.
Thank you!
Thanks, Mursh
This looks rather nice, I used to play elves rather much. +1 Could you please comment on my new U/W Deck I made recently. Want some comments on the mana curve also. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=286706 Thanks
Sorry to tell you but Gaea's Cradle is banned in Legacy. Nice deck though. I suggest mabey adding Genesis Wave with all the mana u have.
Gaea's Cradle is not banned in Legcay. Tolarian Academy is though, and they are part of the same cycle. http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/resources.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrlegacy
Really? 'Cause I swear it was banned in legacy, I must have gotten confused with something else.
Nice deck! Please comment mine: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=212506
Well really this is a good deck good jobs
Thanks man!
To settle the issue, I am an official judge as well as a competetive magic player and GSZ for Dryad arbor is perfectly legal. Kaim is dead on for this. I use it in several Legacy decks myself. On the deck: Elfball seems to need ~16 lands in my experience. How has 14 been for you? I would play Staff of Damnation over Progenitus. That card is just sweet, and drawing Progen is kinda awkward. Crossroads is a very interesting idea that I have never seen in this deck before, but I definitely like it. I really don't like your sb however. I would recommend Null Rod for Affinity, StoneBlade, etc. The Leylines don't really do much for you, instead Tormod's Crypt (which you can cast) and more Grips seems like a good idea. Mind checking out an idea for a green beatdown deck I had? http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=291363
So far so good, running 13 lands. Rarely run into the problem with having no lands in my opening hand. I have thought about adding one more, maybe. I'll give Staff a try, see how it goes. I seem to hardly go for Progenitus anyways. Once I start elf balling, I always go for Emrakul. The sideboard I can agree with you. The only reason I have a playset of Black Leylines is because of my meta. I see soooooo many mono black res decks. Null Rod would be a great replacement in a more tournament setting. Also thinking about Surgical Extraction. Thanks for commenting and solving the ruling issue!
No problem. Mind explaining the purpose of the green leylines? It gains you a lot of life while going off sure, but if you go off you win so that hardly matters....
I'm using the old green leyline ;) Just using them against heavy counter decks.
Ah! Never mind than :) Thought tbh I would think something like Guttural Response would be better as they are much more interested in countering Glimpse.
Have you tried dropping Progenitus and Elvish Visionary and replacing it with another Fauna Shaman and a Fyndhorn Elves. By adding another Fauna Shaman it would make it easier to negate being milled and make it so that you could have your Emrakul in your hand sooner, also making it so you can pick out what creatures you need if you are in a jiffy such as mana lock... and for a side board why not go 4x Leyline of the Void 3x Leyline of Lifeforce 2x Grapeshot 3x Thorn of Amethyst 2x Steely Resolve just to knock out nuiasance decks like burn decks and reset decks (like with Emrakul :P). steely resolve would be good for lockdown decks.
and Fyndhorn for more easy mana.. BTW im stealing this deck build to own my friends burn decks and lockdown decks :P
I see where you're coming from, but in my experience Visionary really helps me out sometimes. Sometimes after I pop, my hand is looking pretty low on creatures. Visionary let's me get those few extra cards to keep me going. It makes good card draw with Wirewood Symbiote. Steely Resolve would be a great addition, if it was "control shroud". If all my elves couldn't be the target of spells or abilities, I couldn't use Wirewood Symbiote or Quirion Ranger to bounce or untap. I like how you're thinking though, thanks for commenting =)
What do you do about turn one Nicol Bolas?
So... the only way to get Progenitus out is if you play Green Sun's Zenith...
You can get some any color mana... but not enough so, yeah Green Sun, Tested this deck, it gets it out on turn 3 if you do it right. :D
response to :Ah! Never mind than :) Thought tbh I would think something like Guttural Response would be better as they are much more interested in countering Glimpse. 0 likes 07 Feb 2012 by raggedjoe i would personally run Autumn's Veil instead of Guttural Response Autumn's Veil: Oracle Text: Spells you control can't be countered by blue or black spells this turn, and creatures you control can't be the targets of blue or black spells this turn. If they counter it, you use up one of their counters if they do not counter it they are screwed! overall a very solid and fun looking deck. I plan to build something similar myself.