Discussion Forum

no, the instant a creature has 0 or less toughness, it dies as a state based effect.

Thank you!

just in case, i am going to also mention that giving it a toughness of 0 doesnt trigger the regeneration shield. i.e. it cannot be regenerated.

And that also works on indestructible creatures as well.

and totem armor'd creatures.

Just to clarify, if a creature has an Umbra aura on it (most have totem armor) and you take -x/-x to bring the creature to 0/0 totem armor has no effect? But if say a Lightning bolt or other such burn effect deals the damage, does the totem armors abilitiy work?

scenario:
Player 1 has rage nimbus with hyena umbra making it a 4/4.
Player 2 has 6 swamps and plays tendrils of corruption where x = number of swamps under players control. Does this mean the totem armor will not work?

The Umbra gives a replacement effect that says the next time a creature would be destroyed remove all damage and destroy the aura instead.

Negative counters are not damage, they simply modify the toughness until it is 0 at which time even an indestructible creature will go to the graveyard as a state-based effect. Indestructibility and regeneration (and an umbra is really just a guaranteed regenerate) both work based on damage so the answer is a profanity-laced no, it will not protect you.

Yes I do run indestructibility, and I do hate negative counters... how could you tell?

So how about shroud? It states that "this creature cannot be the target of spells and abilities." So does that mean something like Tendrils of Corruption would not work against that creature? And so this would in effect be opposite of totem armor where say blocking or attacking creatures can still kill it?

What I am trying to get at is, what would take down Hada Spy Patrol at max level? He has shroud and is unblockable. From what I can tell the only way to kill him would be to a sacrifice, or if you used him to block an attacking stronger creature.

Shroud means it can't be targeted, so it would have to be killed by 1: a global effect i.e. Day of Judgment or 2 Pyroclasms or something; 2: a poor combat decision i.e. blocking with it and it dying thanks to combat damage; or 3: an untargeted effect like an edict i.e. Consuming Vapors.

[QUOTE=NightLoki]Shroud means it can't be targeted, so it would have to be killed by 1: a global effect i.e. Day of Judgment or 2 Pyroclasms or something; 2: a poor combat decision i.e. blocking with it and it dying thanks to combat damage; or 3: an untargeted effect like an edict i.e. Consuming Vapors.[/QUOTE]

To rephrase this from Judgese: Shroud may help you when a bullet has your name on it but splash damage is still addressed "To whom it may concern".

As long as nothing here says "target creature" or similar language shroud doesn't affect anything.

[QUOTE=Shadowex3]To rephrase this from Judgese: Shroud may help you when a bullet has your name on it but splash damage is still addressed "To whom it may concern".

As long as nothing here says "target creature" or similar language shroud doesn't affect anything.[/QUOTE]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Shadowex3, translator extraordinaire. :D

[QUOTE=steelman]
scenario:
Player 1 has rage nimbus with hyena umbra making it a 4/4.
Player 2 has 6 swamps and plays tendrils of corruption where x = number of swamps under players control. Does this mean the totem armor will not work?[/QUOTE]

tendrils deals straight damage, it doesn't lower toughness, so it doesn't really have anything to do with this discussion.

the totem armor would trigger and be removed instead of the creature.

[QUOTE=NightLoki]Ladies and Gentlemen, Shadowex3, translator extraordinaire. :D[/QUOTE]

I'm the guy with the blackberry at most games I play so I've had to get used to translating judgese from the interbutts when someone demands a spot-check for card rulings. Ofc being a prelaw student helps...

if i get hit with a -7 /4 would i gain 7 life. i didn't think so(acutauly i'm pretty sure) but is there a way to make that happen

Negative power is treated as 0 for everything except stat alterations.