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planeswalkers don't have +1/+1 counters they have loyalty counters so no he wouldn't inherit any abilities from them

[QUOTE=thegathered]planeswalkers don't have +1/+1 counters they have loyalty counters so no he wouldn't inherit any abilities from them[/QUOTE]

true yet one could get a +1/+1 counter on a planeswalker it's still a permanent...what then?

edit; let me explain; Liquidmetal coating and march of the machines + steel overseer/any modular creature

[QUOTE=Lexusthegreat]So I have tried to look it up but only found fora's bulking of nonsense and jabber...

can Kraj inherit the abilities of a planeswalker?[/QUOTE]

Only if the planeswalker is somehow turned into a creature (like, say, Liquimetal Coating + Karn, Silver Golem, or Gideon Jura's self-animation ability) and also given a +1/+1 counter. Then Kraj would have the planeswalker's activated abilities.

They would function, too. You'd have to use the loyalty-adding ability first, of course, to get some loyalty counters on Kraj, but then you could use the other abilities no problem. Kraj won't inherit the ties to those counters that planeswalkers have; he won't die for having none and damage dealt to Kraj won't remove any of his loyalty counters, since these are properties of planeswalkers.

The abilities he gets from the planeswalkers, however, are still limited to their restrictions - one per turn at sorcery speed. This is because those abilities themselves are defined as "loyalty abilities," a term that carries those restrictions, and while they are activated abilities - allowing the Kraj to copy them - they don't stop being loyalty abilities even if they're not on a planeswalker.

606. Loyalty Abilities

606.1. Some activated abilities are loyalty abilities, which are subject to special rules.

606.2. An activated ability with a loyalty symbol in its cost is a loyalty ability. Normally, only planeswalkers have loyalty abilities.

^thus, those abilities are still loyalty abilities even if they're on Kraj the non-planeswalker.

606.3. A player may activate a loyalty ability of a permanent he or she controls any time he or she has priority and the stack is empty during a main phase of his or her turn, but only if no player has previously activated a loyalty ability of that permanent that turn.

^this keeps Kraj from activating those nifty +loyalty abilities over and over during a turn. This also means that if Kraj is getting abilities from multiple planeswalkers, he can still only use one of those loyalty ability per turn (not one from each planeswalker).

606.4. The cost to activate a loyalty ability of a permanent is to put on or remove from that permanent a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the ability’s cost.

606.5. A loyalty ability with a negative loyalty cost can’t be activated unless the permanent has at least that many loyalty counters on it.


So, it works, but isn't an "infinite" combo. You just get duplication of the planeswalker abilities at the cost of having to turn the planeswalker into a creature.

thanks! that was exactly what I needed...:D

haha still think it's pretty cool...not that It matters for the indeed only once per turn activating of a loyalty ability but still...........pretty cool

that makes me want to use like nicol bolas + jace the mind sculptor use nicol bolas for faster counters and than copy jace to use his last ability that would be sweet!

So does that mean that you can basically use a planeswalkers ability twice a turn? Like say, you use Jace's "Brainstorm" ability, and then gave his abilities to Kraj, could you then "Braistorm" again from the Kraj?

yup =)

you could also use Fate Transfer to hijack the loyalty counters from enemy planeswalkers to speed you along


sadly i haven't found any other ways to add/change the type of a permanent to creature.

liquimetal+march of the machines isn't really a good idea if you're not playing with artifacts hehe

it would definitally be an interesting casual deck.

[QUOTE=Seras]liquimetal+march of the machines isn't really a good idea if you're not playing with artifacts hehe[/QUOTE]

That particular combo is just dandy on its own, though, as you can use it to off your opponent's lands.

(for extra viciousness, add Dross Scorpion)