Discussion Forum

I think, its effect is negelected, and you should survive one round. Well aneximines might have a better explanation.

The general idea is that "can't" beats "can." More specifically,

101.2. When a rule or effect allows or directs something to happen, and another effect states that it can’t happen, the “can’t” effect takes precedence.

So, Angel's Grace is an excellent response to Door to Nothingness, since it makes what the Door tries to do impossible.

You will not lose the game in that scenario. And since that is all that the Door's ability tries to accomplish, the Door's ability does nothing at all.

Allright, thanks.

Now next question... Say I bring in a Platinum Angel and my opponent tries to do the exact same thing as last time. PA reads "You can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game."

When the Door is activated, "you" are removed from the game. Does that mean the angel is also removed from the game? And if not, is "you" still a legal target for the angel's ability?

why do you think Door's ability involves "you" being removed from the game?

[QUOTE=pastahunter]Allright, thanks.

Now next question... Say I bring in a Platinum Angel and my opponent tries to do the exact same thing as last time. PA reads "You can't lose the game and your opponents can't win the game."[/quote]

If the Angel is actually on the battlefield when the Door's ability resolves, then the Door's ability will do nothing, because the one thing it tries to do is impossible.

If you cast the Angel and he Doors you in response, so that the Door's ability resolves before the Angel does, then you will lose, because the Angel's ability is only active while the Angel is on the battlefield.

[quote]When the Door is activated, "you" are removed from the game. Does that mean the angel is also removed from the game? And if not, is "you" still a legal target for the angel's ability?[/QUOTE]

As this is a rules forum, let's get precise.

When the Door's ability is activated, it goes on the stack, and its player announces its target and pays its costs (including sacrificing the Door).

If the Door's ability resolves, then the targeted player loses the game (assuming, of course, that such is possible).

If a player loses the game, and there is no more than one player left who hasn't lost the game, then the game is over.

If a player loses the game, and there is more than one player left who hasn't lost, then the player who just lost leaves the game and:

- All objects owned by that player leave the game.
- All spells and abilities on the stack controlled by that player cease to exist.
- Any effects which give that player control of any objects or players end.
- Then, if there are any objects still controlled by that player, those objects are exiled.

Yes, all great and good, but the Door's ability doesn't make someone "lose", it removes someone from the game. Platinum Angel doesn't read "you cannot be removed from the game", so the you-can't-lose effect will not make any difference, right?

[quote]why do you think Door's ability involves "you" being removed from the game?[/quote]
That's the very question I'm asking.

[QUOTE=pastahunter]Yes, all great and good, but the Door's ability doesn't make someone "lose", it removes someone from the game. [/QUOTE]

the card clearly states:

Door to Nothingness enters the battlefield tapped.

{W}{W}{U}{U}{B}{B}{R}{R}{G}{G}, {T}, Sacrifice Door to Nothingness: Target player loses the game.

[QUOTE=pastahunter]Yes, all great and good, but the Door's ability doesn't make someone "lose", it removes someone from the game.[/QUOTE]

You've certainly made me curious. What card are you looking at? Door to Nothingness does explicitly say that the targeted player "loses" the game. Nowhere does it use the word remove (or the word "you").

http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?multiverseid=205329&type=card

Now granted, if a player loses the game, that player does leave the game, so in an indirect sense I suppose you could say that the Door removes a player from the game, but in a rules sense it is relevant that it accomplishes this by making the player "lose."

That is why Angel's Grace and Platinum Angel make the Door's effect impossible to carry out, just as, for example, Indestructibility makes Aftershock's effect (on the enchanted permanent) impossible.

Ah, I am indeed mixed up, but I'm interested in which card I'm mixed up with. I am wondering tho which card I'm mixed up with.

Sorry 'bout that. I'll be searching the card I was mixing up.