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if a 0/0 with 4 +1/+1 counters on it enters the battlefield, wild pair treats it as a 4/4 so you need to search for a P+T=8 creature.

[QUOTE=Seth]if a 0/0 with 4 +1/+1 counters on it enters the battlefield, wild pair treats it as a 4/4 so you need to search for a P+T=8 creature.[/QUOTE]

but i can remove the counters away before wild pair triggers? so that the creature is 0/0 and search for a spike hatcher as example?
or i play a 1/1 and cast two times giant growth and search for a 7/7?

[QUOTE=cillion]but i can remove the counters away before wild pair triggers? so that the creature is 0/0 and search for a spike hatcher as example?
or i play a 1/1 and cast two times giant growth and search for a 7/7?[/QUOTE]

Yeah I think that would work.

[QUOTE=cillion]but i can remove the counters away before wild pair triggers? so that the creature is 0/0 and search for a spike hatcher as example?
or i play a 1/1 and cast two times giant growth and search for a 7/7?[/QUOTE]

That works out because Wild Pair's ability doesn't check p/t when it triggers (at that point it's only checking whether a creature cast from your hand entered the battlefield), it checks p/t when it resolves.

Since it goes on the stack, you can respond to it with instants like Giant Growth and activated abilities like those of the Spikes.

You could even do tricks with other triggered abilities like that of Primal Forcemage - if they trigger at the same time, you can choose the order in which they resolve.

[QUOTE=Aneximines]That works out because Wild Pair's ability doesn't check p/t when it triggers (at that point it's only checking whether a creature cast from your hand entered the battlefield), it checks p/t when it resolves.

Since it goes on the stack, you can respond to it with instants like Giant Growth and activated abilities like those of the Spikes.

You could even do tricks with other triggered abilities like that of Primal Forcemage - if they trigger at the same time, you can choose the order in which they resolve.[/QUOTE]

awesome^^ then i can play an spike drone, remove one counter let wild pair trigger and search for an spike hatcher?

[QUOTE=cillion]awesome^^ then i can play an spike drone, remove one counter let wild pair trigger and search for an spike hatcher?[/QUOTE]

Yes, yes you can.

(Though you don't "let Wild Pair trigger," you "respond" to its triggered ability.)

Also it wouldn't be a bad idea to start playing something like Sterling Grove. People will soon enough realize they need to kill wild pair fast. Sterling Grove protects wild pair and/or tutors it when needed. It would strengthen your strategy.

[QUOTE=Seth]Also it wouldn't be a bad idea to start playing something like Sterling Grove. People will soon enough realize they need to kill wild pair fast. Sterling Grove protects wild pair and/or tutors it when needed. It would strengthen your strategy.[/QUOTE]

sure your right! but i don't have this card and i run out of place for other cards!
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=141402 this is my deck at the time XD

Would you mind going into your game plan because I don't see it. There are powerful cards in the deck but I fail to see the strategy. I see a theme, that's all.

What do you see as a typical scenario?
Goldfish it for me, unopposed with a perfect openings hand what does the deck do from turn 1 to turn X, where X is the turn you win?

not trying to be judgemental, just curious about your deckbuilding approach.

[QUOTE=Seth]Would you mind going into your game plan because I don't see it. There are powerful cards in the deck but I fail to see the strategy. I see a theme, that's all.

What do you see as a typical scenario?
Goldfish it for me, unopposed with a perfect openings hand what does the deck do from turn 1 to turn X, where X is the turn you win?

not trying to be judgemental, just curious about your deckbuilding approach.[/QUOTE]
Hmm well as u said u see a theme that's right!
well i think between all these cards the strategie got lost!
trough the ability of the spikes i can move the counter around as i like, with dubling season should these pump them extrem fast, with triskelion i can shot all these counters arround and with garruk i can make some big attacks!
wild pair is used to get as fast as possible creatures like spike feeder, spike weaver and triskelion.
but i don't got a bigger strategie in this deck!

[QUOTE=cillion]Hmm well as u said u see a theme that's right!
well i think between all these cards the strategie got lost!
trough the ability of the spikes i can move the counter around as i like, with dubling season should these pump them extrem fast, with triskelion i can shot all these counters arround and with garruk i can make some big attacks!
wild pair is used to get as fast as possible creatures like spike feeder, spike weaver and triskelion.
but i don't got a bigger strategie in this deck![/QUOTE]

that's what I thought. You assume you will win when you get all these power cards out but the problem is that they cost a lot of mana which will cost you a lot of turns to get it in place. There's nothing wrong with relying on cards like doubling season but you need a means to survive the game long enough to get to the point where you can actually play your expensive power cards and crush your opponent. You also have to be realistic about boardsweeping. If it takes you a lot of turns to set up your board position you must realize that it only takes one turn on your opponents end to cast a single Akroma's vengeance or Austere command or Oblivion Stone or Planar Cleansing to wipe your deck out. That's serious card advantage on your opponents end.

A lot of guys on this board think the key to deckbuilding is maxing out playsets. They see doubling season, they think this card is strong so they add 4 to their deck and call it consistent. It doesn't work that way. A 5 mana cost spell that doesn't improve your board position when you cast it is not something you want to max out in a 60 card deck. And if you do want to play it you need a damn good strategy to make it work.
A good rule of thumb is not to max out cards you don't want to hold in your openings hand and in case there is any doubt you don't want spells in your openings hand that you can't cast the first 3 turns of the game.

[QUOTE=Seth]that's what I thought. You assume you will win when you get all these power cards out but the problem is that they cost a lot of mana which will cost you a lot of turns to get it in place. There's nothing wrong with relying on cards like doubling season but you need a means to survive the game long enough to get to the point where you can actually play your expensive power cards and crush your opponent. You also have to be realistic about boardsweeping. If it takes you a lot of turns to set up your board position you must realize that it only takes one turn on your opponents end to cast a single Akroma's vengeance or Austere command or Oblivion Stone or Planar Cleansing to wipe your deck out. That's serious card advantage on your opponents end.

A lot of guys on this board think the key to deckbuilding is maxing out playsets. They see doubling season, they think this card is strong so they add 4 to their deck and call it consistent. It doesn't work that way. A 5 mana cost spell that doesn't improve your board position when you cast it is not something you want to max out in a 60 card deck. And if you do want to play it you need a damn good strategy to make it work.
A good rule of thumb is not to max out cards you don't want to hold in your openings hand and in case there is any doubt you don't want spells in your openings hand that you can't cast the first 3 turns of the game.[/QUOTE]

Yes i know but always i got a good start and stay with a bad or not really good end!
i think i have to get some other ways to winn and some tutors or something like that to get the keycards ^^
well i'm still a beginner who needs some advice. (and a better english :>)
well i rebuild this deck again and ask you again in few days.
thanks for helping me!

A traditional green way to solve the big-mana-cost problem is cheap mana acceleration, and green has a ton of one-mana options:

Llanowar Elves, Arbor Elf, Fyndhorn Elves, Wild Growth, Birds of Paradise

I use six one-mana, mana-producing Elves in my casual green creature deck. The Birds might work well for you too, because they're harder to block, making them good recipients of your +1/+1 counters.

If you prefer sorceries, Nature's Lore is great, because the land it fetches out doesn't enter the 'field tapped, so if you can use it that turn, Nature's Lore effectively only cost you one mana.

Cheap mana acceleration makes your mana supply much more stable, and those 5- and 6-mana cards more feasible.

I have a simular approach, though I try not to rely on creatures to supply me with the mana I need because a well timed wrath of god effect can be crippling. I usually start most of my casual decks with 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder and 4 Cultivate or 4 Solemn Simulacrum. When playing Wild Pair creatures are obviously better then sorceries to accelerate your mana base because if you happen to have wild pair out those utility creatures become tutors.

[QUOTE=Seth]I have a simular approach, though I try not to rely on creatures to supply me with the mana I need because a well timed wrath of god effect can be crippling. I usually start most of my casual decks with 4 Sakura-Tribe Elder and 4 Cultivate or 4 Solemn Simulacrum. When playing Wild Pair creatures are obviously better then sorceries to accelerate your mana base because if you happen to have wild pair out those utility creatures become tutors.[/QUOTE]

so i tryed to rebuild it as good as i can and this is my deck at the time
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=141402
i play sterling grove as protector and tutor for the other enchantments, even if i play no white mana in this deck i think there should be no problem to get an utopia tree in a useable time!
kozilek is some kind of filler or i don't know how usefull he is in this deck but i think with wildpair and some mana i schould pump an spike easy on 10/10 an search for him!

[QUOTE=cillion]
kozilek is some kind of filler or i don't know how usefull he is in this deck but i think with wildpair and some mana i schould pump an spike easy on 10/10 an search for him![/QUOTE]

That's the kind of abuse I like to see and exactly what I mean by overpowering your opponent. Also with good mana acceleration you should be able to hard cast Kozilek by mid game and he becomes a kick ass draw engine.

By the way, didn't you play Gaea's Cradle? where did it go? Such a good card!!!
I play 2 in a 60 card deck and wish I owned 3.

Also, I would drop heartstone and up Sterling Grove to 4. I would also replace Utopia Tree by Sakura Tribe Elder and add 1 plains to the deck that can then be fetched either by Sakura Tribe Elder or Cultivate. It's more uncommon for opponents to attack your land then it is for them to shoot down creatures.

[QUOTE=Seth]That's the kind of abuse I like to see and exactly what I mean by overpowering your opponent. Also with good mana acceleration you should be able to hard cast Kozilek by mid game and he becomes a kick ass draw engine.

By the way, didn't you play Gaea's Cradle? where did it go? Such a good card!!!
I play 2 in a 60 card deck and wish I owned 3.

Also, I would drop heartstone and up Sterling Grove to 4. I would also replace Utopia Tree by Sakura Tribe Elder and add 1 plains to the deck that can then be fetched either by Sakura Tribe Elder or Cultivate. It's more uncommon for opponents to attack your land then it is for them to shoot down creatures.[/QUOTE]
:>
yes i played it but i don't own this card and this card is to expenisve for me. i'm still an apprentice!

hmm and how should i cast the spikes ability much without heartstone?
well okey that's a good idea but i like my tree much XD well i should got enough mana in turn 3 to cast some stron units^^
thanks a lot

[QUOTE=cillion]:>
yes i played it but i don't own this card and this card is to expenisve for me. i'm still an apprentice!
[/QUOTE]

yeah, stay away from expensive cards until you have a good grasp on the game.

[QUOTE=cillion]
hmm and how should i cast the spikes ability much without heartstone?
well okey that's a good idea but i like my tree much XD well i should got enough mana in turn 3 to cast some stron units^^
thanks a lot[/QUOTE]

Ok, you make a good a point. But Heartstone is an artifact and doesn't have a synergy with Sterling Grove. So add 1 plains and 1 island to your deck and go with the

4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Cultivate
4 Sterling Grove

package and try to fit in 1 Training Grounds. It's the same as heartstone but slightly better and it's an enchantment which means you can tutor it with sterling grove and protect it with sterling grove.
If you notice they shoot it down to often add a second training grounds, but start out with just the 1.

[QUOTE=Seth]yeah, stay away from expensive cards until you have a good grasp on the game.



Ok, you make a good a point. But Heartstone is an artifact and doesn't have a synergy with Sterling Grove. So add 1 plains and 1 island to your deck and go with the

4 Sakura Tribe Elder
4 Cultivate
4 Sterling Grove

package and try to fit in 1 Training Grounds. It's the same as heartstone but slightly better and it's an enchantment which means you can tutor it with sterling grove and protect it with sterling grove.
If you notice they shoot it down to often add a second training grounds, but start out with just the 1.[/QUOTE]

ur a genious.
my problem is that i'm not a walking magic database XD
thanks

you're welcome