Discussion Forum

[QUOTE=lasfdjfd]1. i attach viridian claw to a creature after declare blockers and before regular damage. there are no creature with first strike in combat. Does my creature get to deal first strike damage?[/quote]

So long as you do it during the Declare Blockers Step - after blockers have been declared but before the Combat Damage Step begins.

That's a good time to do it, because blockers are locked in by then.

510. Combat Damage Step
...
510.5. If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike. After that step, the phase proceeds to the end of combat step.

[QUOTE]2. I unattach viridian claw from a creature after after declare blockers but before first strike damage. Does it get to deal regular damage?[/QUOTE]

No, that's unworkable. If it loses first strike before the combat damage step, it won't deal first strike damage. If loses first strike after it deals damage in the "first strike" damage step, then it won't deal damage in the "regular" one unless it has double strike.

In the "regular" step, it doesn't matter whether the creature currently has first strike, it only matters whether the creature had first strike during the first damage step. From the above rule:

The only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are the remaining attackers and blockers that had neither first strike nor double strike as the first combat damage step began, as well as the remaining attackers and blockers that currently have double strike.

[QUOTE]3. I block with a creature with first strike. I cast rally the forces before first strike damage is dealt. Did i just kind of cast a red safe passage?[/QUOTE]

That wouldn't be a good idea, as it would simply give your opponent's creatures a boost.


Manipulating when a creature has or lacks first strike cannot cause that creature to either deal damage twice or deal no damage.

thank you for the help

1: yes, assuming your Brass Squire used it's ability in response to the Declare Blockers step(at the latest) then the equipped creature would be dealing First Strike damage.

2: you can't un-equip whenever you want, to detach an equipment from a creature you must attach it to a different creature. If you used the Squire's ability to equip say, itself, with the Claw, then yes, the first creature would deal regular damage.

3: hum...how is this anything like safe passage? you simply gave your opponent's attacking creatures a power boost AND first strike.

[QUOTE=lasfdjfd]what if i do 2 and 3 after first strike damage?[/QUOTE]

In the case of 2, the creature still won't deal damage in the second combat damage step, because it did have first strike as the first combat damage step began.

In the case of 3, the attacking creatures would still deal damage in the second combat damage step, because they did not have first strike as the first combat damage step began.


The key here is that first strike is only relevant as the first combat damage step begins. Changing who has it after that one point in time won't change how they deal their damage.

wait, are you implying that priority is passed and instants/abilities can go on the stack between first strike combat damage step and the regular combat damage step?

i looked up the part that aneximines referenced and he's right.

first strike is only checked for once so it doesn't matter after the first combat damage step.

[QUOTE=Seras]wait, are you implying that priority is passed and instants/abilities can go on the stack between first strike combat damage step and the regular combat damage step?[/QUOTE]

Who, me?

Yes, players receive priority during each combat damage step.

510. Combat Damage Step

510.1. First, the active player announces how each attacking creature assigns its combat damage, then the defending player announces how each blocking creature assigns its combat damage. ...
...
510.2. Second, all combat damage that’s been assigned is dealt simultaneously. ...

510.3. Third, any abilities that triggered on damage being assigned or dealt go on the stack. ...

510.4. Fourth, the active player gets priority. Players may cast spells and activate abilities.

510.5. If at least one attacking or blocking creature has first strike (see rule 702.7) or double strike (see rule 702.4) as the combat damage step begins, the only creatures that assign combat damage in that step are those with first strike or double strike. After that step, instead of proceeding to the end of combat step, the phase gets a second combat damage step. ...

It is a full second combat damage step, with all the parts listed above, including players getting priority.

hum....now that i think about it it makes sense given that 'on combat damage' effects do get triggered by first strike and resolve before the regular combat damage.

guess i forgot about it for a few minutes /shrugs

wait a minute... if i understand this correctly, he's doing the equiping on the combat step. but equiping a creature is treated as a sorcery...

702.6. Equip

702.6a Equip is an activated ability of Equipment cards. “Equip [cost]” means “[Cost]: Attach this Equipment to target creature you control. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.”

and casting a sorcery means:

307.5. If a spell, ability, or effect states that a player can do something only “any time he or she could cast a sorcery,” it means only that the player must have priority, it must be during the main phase of his or her turn, and the stack must be empty.

so he cant equip the artifact to the creature during the combat phase because of these rulings, right?

he's using Brass Squire's ability to do it.

oh.. ok hehehe

[QUOTE=jiggs]
so he cant equip the artifact to the creature during the combat phase because of these rulings, right?[/QUOTE]

Brass Squire

[QUOTE=jiggs]wait a minute... if i understand this correctly, he's doing the equiping on the combat step. but equiping a creature is treated as a sorcery... [/QUOTE]

He's using Brass Squire (at least Seth and I are assuming that that's what he means by "Myr Squire;" the thing is certainly cute enough to be a Myr), and the issue may come up through other means, such as instants like Rally the Forces that can give a creature first strike.

hello, wanted to ask something about first strike. if i have a 2/2 creature with first strike and i attack with it but the defender has no creatures, does it deal 4 damage?

no, First Strike doesn't change the amount of damage dealt, just the timing

[QUOTE=Aneximines]Manipulating when a creature has or lacks first strike cannot cause that creature to either deal damage twice or deal no damage.[/QUOTE]

Do you have any ruling links to back this up? Until now I didn't know you could do things between first strike and normal damage (though it makes sense). And as wrong as it seems to me, I don't see what would stop you from giving creatures first strike between the two steps to stop them from doing damage during the normal damage step. Of course you would need a creature on the field that already had first strike to make sure there were 2 steps.

What happens if a creature has both double strike and first strike?

double strike supersedes the first strike