Discussion Forum

Targeting/Not targetable

Last night my buddy was using Heartseeker and tried to destroy one of my creatures. Fortunatly for me I had Plaxcaster Frogling out and payed the 2 mana to make him untargetable by spells or abilities.

Now my question is since I just made my only creature an illegal target for Heartseeker what happens next? I say that since my creature is an illegal target he would have to target one of his own or another opponents creature because Heartseeker says "Destroy target creature". With that being said he also tried in one instance to do the same when I had 2 creatures out. In response I made one untargetable. Then he tried to change the target to my other creature. Im sure he is wrong somewhere, but im not sure if the spell fizzles or needs to target a legal target(even his own).

To top this off my friend is as hard headed as a mule.
Posted 07 July 2011 at 23:51

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I believe that the card fizzles, I have never heard of a rule where you are forced to change targets. The spell fizzles and gets sent to the graveyard, if I am correct.
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Posted 08 July 2011 at 00:28

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First, if your creature gains shroud before the ability targeting on the stack resolves it is countered. Here's the ruling:

608.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target
that’s no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game
state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed
or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it
was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if
all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not
countered, it will resolve normally. However, if any of its targets are illegal, the part of the spell
or ability’s effect for which it is an illegal target can’t perform any actions on that target or
make that target perform any actions. The effect may still determine information about illegal
targets, though, and other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still
affect them.

Secondly,

114.1. Some spells and abilities require their controller to choose one or more targets for them. The
targets are object(s), player(s), and/or zone(s) the spell or ability will affect. These targets are
declared as part of the process of putting the spell or ability on the stack. The targets can’t be
changed except by another spell or ability that explicitly says it can do so.

Note the bolded part. Your friend can't make the Heartseeker pick a new target, as that was already decided upon the ability's activation.

Frogling's 'instant-shroud' is sort of like a Counterspell for targeted spells and abilities.
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Posted 08 July 2011 at 02:01

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I was gonna start a new topic, but this seem fitting enough to ask the question here.

My friend attempted to play Dispense Justice while I was attacking. I casted Swerve targeting him. Now is this legal considering he obviously has no attacking creatures, and if it is I assume the spell would just fizzle?
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Posted 08 July 2011 at 02:36

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I believe swerves rulings say the new target must be legal.

EDIT: Rulings according to the gatherer:
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=175010
10/1/2008
Swerve targets only the spell whose target will be changed. It doesn't directly affect the original target of that spell or the new target of that spell.
10/1/2008
You don't choose the new target for the spell until Swerve resolves. You must change the target if possible. However, you can't change the target to an illegal target. If there are no legal targets, the target isn't changed. It doesn't matter if the original target of that spell has somehow become illegal.
10/1/2008
If you cast Swerve on a spell that targets a spell on the stack (like Cancel does, for example), you can't change that spell's target to itself. You can, however, change that spell's target to Swerve. If you do, that spell will be countered when it tries to resolve because Swerve will have left the stack by then.
10/1/2008
If a spell targets multiple things, you can't target it with Swerve, even if all but one of those targets has become illegal.
10/1/2008
If a spell targets the same player or object multiple times, you can't target it with Swerve.
3/1/2010
An Aura spell on the stack targets the object or player which it will enchant upon entering the battlefield. Thus, an Aura spell is a "spell with a single target", which means you may use Swerve to change that target. Doing so will cause it to enter the battlefield enchanting the new target rather than the original one.
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Posted 08 July 2011 at 03:45

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Thanks for the reply. I understand Swerve needs a legal target but I assume each player is legal as long as they can be targeted. (for instance they don't have a leyline).

If you do play it where Swerve cannot target a player with no attacking creatures, wouldn't having metalcraft on Dispense Justice not allow you to cast the spell on a player with only 1 attacking creature since he would then not be legal.
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Posted 08 July 2011 at 12:40

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As long as a creature is attacking you can use it on the attacking creature's controler.
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Posted 08 July 2011 at 15:55

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[QUOTE=jamike84]Thanks for the reply. I understand Swerve needs a legal target but I assume each player is legal as long as they can be targeted. (for instance they don't have a leyline).

If you do play it where Swerve cannot target a player with no attacking creatures, wouldn't having metalcraft on Dispense Justice not allow you to cast the spell on a player with only 1 attacking creature since he would then not be legal.[/QUOTE]

You can swerve the Dispense Justice at him even if you are the one attacking. He doesn't have to have attacking creatures in order to target him with Dispense Justice. The Justice just doesn't do anything then. Now if it said "Target attacking creature's controller sacrifices it", then you wouldn't be able to because then you have to target a creature, but as it reads you are targeting a player. It's kinda like casting Mind Sludge targeting a player with no hand.
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Posted 08 July 2011 at 17:02

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[QUOTE=pete_h]You can swerve the Dispense Justice at him even if you are the one attacking.[/QUOTE]

Thats how I understand it. I'll try and convince him thats how it works :p. Thanks again for the replies.
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Posted 08 July 2011 at 18:57

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