Discussion Forum

Man, Chandra Ablaze probably is the worst walker, but she's definitely one of my favorites.

I think this is a pretty good looking deck, as long as you get something in your opening hand. The only thing I don't like is the Trinisphere, and removing it could give you the second Chandra and a Seething Song, though I know what it CAN do when you have it turn one.

Could you check this out?
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=226609
It's a Modern mono black deck using Korlash for the Grandeur ability, then playing Nightmare Incursion and Sadistic Sacrament to remove everything from the opponents deck. I know I need it to be at least a turn faster but I can't think of what I can use right now.
I need something that gets Korlash back to my hand from the gravyard cheaply. Soul Stair Expedition can get 8 swamp when Korlash resolves, if I have 2 others in my hand.
I was also trying out Corrupt for a bit, since it should be able to kill very fast, but I was thinking Ob Nixilis would be faster
I think the new Liliana will work well with Bloodghast, and I will definitely be testing it out, even before Innistrad is released.

try Grim Discovery, it's nice with some other cards in your deck as well.

extraction is only good as sideboard plan against decks like 12 post, extracting their eldrazi or titans can break them or at least make the game more fair. It's good against combo as well. Against aggro decks like zoo it doesn't have any effect.

I know there's a lot of extraction fans on the board but personally I've never seen extraction work on a high competitive level. It's just to slow in a format where every turn counts.

Maybe Im just addicted to the card since I just got 2 foil ones, but Chandra, the Firebrand wouldnt be a bad choice in here either. If you can pump a bunch of mana, drop her, then drop like a Seething Song with her reverberate effect, it really helps the curve out nicely. Just something to consider.

Btw, I threw this modern red deck together the other day and was curious how people would think it would do. It's kind of my version of a modern kuldothacry with some added-in stability thanks to skirk prospector. Also, Im debating on throwing Chandra, the Firebrand in it to reverberate Goblin Grenades, but Im not sure its worth increasing the curve for that.... Here it is: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=228991

Thanks guys :)

Imo, a first turn Trinisphere is not the worse thing that could happen to you ;) It'd absolutely **** most decks. If you wanted to build that and Chalice to be more of the focus of the deck, then Shimian Spirit Guide, Seething Song, and Geosurge would be your friends. I don't know how practical that'd be, though, since you'd need a Rite of some kind and Spirit Guide in your opening hand.

[QUOTE=Seth]try Grim Discovery, it's nice with some other cards in your deck as well.

extraction is only good as sideboard plan against decks like 12 post, extracting their eldrazi or titans can break them or at least make the game more fair. It's good against combo as well. Against aggro decks like zoo it doesn't have any effect.

I know there's a lot of extraction fans on the board but personally I've never seen extraction work on a high competitive level. It's just to slow in a format where every turn counts.[/QUOTE]

That's one of the things I was looking at, but I didn't think it would go well. I'll try it out and I'll also put Corrupt in for the Incursion (moved to sideboard).I'm just gonna use two Corrupts over the four Incursions though. I think Sadistic is gonna work just to remove the last 3 of something I may not want to deal with, then swap it with Memoricide and Cranial Extraction.

What would you think about Ghost Quarter with the Grim Disvovery? Also, how about Sleeper Agent?

[QUOTE=dagbaker]That's one of the things I was looking at, but I didn't think it would go well. I'll try it out and I'll also put Corrupt in for the Incursion (moved to sideboard).I'm just gonna use two Corrupts over the four Incursions though. I think Sadistic is gonna work just to remove the last 3 of something I may not want to deal with, then swap it with Memoricide and Cranial Extraction.

What would you think about Ghost Quarter with the Grim Disvovery? Also, how about Sleeper Agent?[/QUOTE]

Grim Discovery is a solid card, 2 mana for 2 cards that you tutor from your yard is silly good. That said it doesn't really do anything early on and if you get crushed during the first few turns of the game all the grim Discoveries in the world aren't going to save you.
I'm saying this because your deck looks really weak early on. Bloodghast can't block, Thoughtpicker Witch will be used to simply block and die because you'll have no choice. Every spell you play under Spells is slow and doesn't do anything to protect you early on so you're deck will get crushed.

You have a mid game plan, that means you'll need to dedicate a lot of cards to protect you early on.

Grim Discovery/Ghost Quarter is good against some decks but again it's a mid game startegy. Your problem isn't mid game.


I used to play what you are building as a casual deck and I used to run Dimir House Guard. It's better then Thoughtpicker Witch in every way. It's a tutor that can fetch damnation and Korlash and it can be used as a sac outlet. I ran this deck as Black-Green and could also tutor harmonize with Dimir. I also ran Lord of the Undead to reccur Korlash.

[QUOTE=SpippyTheInsane]Btw, I threw this modern red deck together the other day and was curious how people would think it would do. It's kind of my version of a modern kuldothacry with some added-in stability thanks to skirk prospector. Also, Im debating on throwing Chandra, the Firebrand in it to reverberate Goblin Grenades, but Im not sure its worth increasing the curve for that.... Here it is: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=228991[/QUOTE]

Not bad, I see the potential. I would not be playing bad cards like Raging Goblin though. It's just not cutting it. Even Mogg Fanatic would be a lot better.

The problem with your mana curve is that you'll burn up real fast, you'll probably run out of cards long before you can kill your opponent and with a deck filled with thopters and other weak creatures you really don't want to run low on cards.

[QUOTE=Seth]try Grim Discovery, it's nice with some other cards in your deck as well.

extraction is only good as sideboard plan against decks like 12 post, extracting their eldrazi or titans can break them or at least make the game more fair. It's good against combo as well. Against aggro decks like zoo it doesn't have any effect.

I know there's a lot of extraction fans on the board but personally I've never seen extraction work on a high competitive level. It's just to slow in a format where every turn counts.[/QUOTE]


Yup. Extraction doesn't work in Modern, Seth's got it right. All our "toys" are gone and without those, everything's too fast. Ah well, at least there's always Legacy =P

Your deck is interesting, but with all that chained mana, my main concern is card draw. Being able to dump out a ton of mana is one thing, doing something with it is another =/

As for Chandra, she strangely enough seems to work for the deck...each one of her abilities actually. Maybe go to 2 and see how it works?

[QUOTE=surewhynot]Yup. Extraction doesn't work in Modern, Seth's got it right. All our "toys" are gone and without those, everything's too fast. Ah well, at least there's always Legacy =P[/QUOTE]

Actually I was talking about both Modern and Legacy :)

[QUOTE=Seth]Actually I was talking about both Modern and Legacy :)[/QUOTE]

See, I still don't get why people say that. I currently only lose to Affinity. I have been playing the archtype for over a decade though...so that might be a factor, I dunno. Not saying you haven't seen otherwise, but for me, it's a hell of a contender.

ok, I'm interested, show me this killer list.

[QUOTE=Seth]ok, I'm interested, show me this killer list.[/QUOTE]

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=208040

and

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=177627


Two different designs, but the two dominant ones. Currently I've been enjoying the first one more :D

[QUOTE=surewhynot]http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=208040
and
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=177627

Two different designs, but the two dominant ones. Currently I've been enjoying the first one more :D[/QUOTE]

First list looks playable and it's certainly very interesting. I would have tons of fun playing this and testing against it. Doesn't look like it handles dedicated Aggro matchups all that well but then again dedicated aggro hasn't been popular in a while. Playing this is very thight and a hard fight though.

Now I would not go as far as calling this an extraction build, extraction isn't the focus of the deck, nor the power. It's enlightened Tutor into trinisphere and then lock them with Tabernacle and other fun stuff like that Tainted Æther. Destroy them with pox, crucible and wasteland. It's a mix between what pox wants to do and what stax wants to do and that is deny an opponent the resources to play.
It's my kind of build though, it's not a silver bullet deck, it's a deck that can do a lot of different stuff. I like that. I do believe legacy has become to fast for toolbox decks though, unfortunatly, because they are fun. I believe you have to be either very agressive (preferrably combo) or go pure control like creatureless landstill to stand a chance.
If they mistep your enlightened tutor chances are your deck crumbles because you're stuck with a bunch of incompatible pieces of locks.

Second list looks like a weak (slower) version of the first. No way this would beat Tier 1 legacy decks. it just doesn't cut it.

I must say I love the Psychic Surgery, I mean again I think it's to slow for the format and against many decks most of the time it won't break them but it sure is a fun card.

Looking at these decks I must admit you're one of the few people I've met here that I would seriously enjoy dueling against. Also what you call extraction is nothing like any of the many extraction decks I've seen people post here. 99% are real crap, heavily focussed on extraction but unable to defend themselves.

What I do notice is that most if not all of the extraction cards you use are Modern legal, what is not legal is the core of your control/disruption shell so your defense is gone.

I think of all cards I will miss Hymn to Tourach the most in Modern.

I hate to butt in and shamelessly advertise again, but, Seth, would you mind taking another quick glance at the Modern Goblin deck I made before? I've done a bit of tweaking and I think I might be on the verge of a somewhat viable Modern deck right now. Mainly Im concerned with consistency of T1 as well as currently debating about adding Slate of Ancestry over Infiltration Lens and potentially throwing 2 Chandra, the Firebrands in.

Again, I really hate to advertise, but I actually really like the looks of this one.
Thanks very much :)

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=228991

Thanks Seth, appreciate it. Like I said I've really been enjoying the first one a lot, and it seems to be the way that Extraction is headed over all. I think a number of people have a skewed perception of Extraction to be honest. That "99% of crap" out there, to me, isn't really Extraction at all. Technically it is, because it has the appropriate cards that do what the archtype does, but what you see in my lists, the frames with Extraction interwoven in...THAT is modern-day Extraction.

I gotta say, you impress me with your finesse of this stuff. You "get it", so to speak, and that's pretty cool man. I think you'd likewise be someone I'd enjoy dueling. :D

[QUOTE=SpippyTheInsane]Again, I really hate to advertise, but I actually really like the looks of this one.
Thanks very much :)

http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=228991[/QUOTE]

No problem but maybe you should create your own post, this is the Modern board, not the modern thread :)

Anyway the deck looks ok, but it's hard for me to guess at how well it will survive a long fight. It probably wont. So you want speed but not at the cost of cards. Are the Simian Spirit Guide and Skirk Prospector really that important? Is it just for early game Slate of Ancestry that you play them?
And Slate is great and all but with only a few lands even with cheap spells it's not like you are going to dump your entire hand on to the field like affinity does.
Have you created a few proxy netdecks yet to play test against?
check this site for Modern decks

http://www.mtgdecks.net/formats/view/Modern


[QUOTE=surewhynot;28230]I gotta say, you impress me with your finesse of this stuff. You "get it", so to speak, and that's pretty cool man.[/QUOTE]

likewise, cheers bro!