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I've wondered about that.

I have similar situtations sometimes, where my friend who uses tons of goblin tokens uses them to block, then sacrifices them to deal me damage while they are on the way to the graveyard.

A ruling on that would be useful as well since it usually causes conflict between everyone.

Well I know from reading the rules that you can block with a creature then sacrifice it. You cannot however attack with a creature then sacrifice it because the attacking creature becomes tapped.

I think that tokens would be too powerful if you could just bring them out when something is giving all creatures of a chosen type -1/-1 and you can just sacrifice it the moment it comes out. Hopefully the creature dies the moment it hits the field, but still waiting on confermation

"[If a creature comes into play with] . . . 0 toughness, It will be put into its owner's graveyard as a state-based effect immediately upon entering play unless an effect puts it into play with a counter on it (such as Chorus of the Conclave would) or a static ability boosts its toughness (such as Glorious Anthem would). A triggered or activated ability that boosts toughness [or would be used to sacrifice it] won't have its effect fast enough to save it."

- 5/1/2007 Gatherer Card Rulings

Let's look at the stack for an explanation:

You play a 1/1 creature, it goes on the stack:

>Creature<

You play the activated ability in response to the creature being played:

>Activated Ability<
>Creature<

The ability would resolve first, and since it's target is the creature, and the creature isn't in play yet, you can't sacrifice it. The second the creature resolves, it is put into the graveyard, and again, can't be sacrificed.

Hope this helps!

Okay, we got a ruling on this when we were playing with vampires vs angels (luminarch)
I had Vampire Hexmage
She had douchebag Luminarch.

The way the stack works, the ruling we found, is that there must be a two step to something to stack on it.
Example - Tap seagate - draw cards
you may stack on the tap to kill it or w/e before the draw, because the tap is a payment

As to your ruling and what we had, Vampire Hexmage - Sacrafice to remove all counters
There is NO payment, just sacrafice. You cannot stack upon a sacrafice since the "payment" that doesnt exist technically is the creature going to the graveyard. SO! If you are sacing to remove counters, as long as it isn't a tap sac or pay sac, then you can do it without a stack going on to prevent you from removing counters

As it was explained to me tapping and abilities along with sacrificing were counted as instant speed and the only thing faster than instant speed is a state-based effect.

The real trick is when state-based effects are checked, it's actually possible to do things BEFORE a state-based stuff is "cleaned up". The thing is your -1/-1 isn't state based, and he can activate abilities and sacrifice things in response to it even if it's an instant. So if you cast an instant to give all sporelings -1/-1 then the sporelings will be dead the instant they hit the field but if his fungus creature becomes a 1/1 in the process of making a sporeling he should (if I understand priority and state-based effects correctly) be able to sacrifice it before priority returns to you and state-based effects are cleaned up.

I think you simply restated what I said, but in a different way.
A SAC not tap sac, or pay sac, only SAC to effect can be used at any time anywhere and can't have soething stacked on it, but it can stack on someting.

ok, quick clarification on some things, especially surrounding sacrifice abilities;

Let's use Vampire Hexmage as an example here.
Text:

First strike
Sacrifice Vampire Hexmage: Remove all counters from target permanent.

Notice the colon after 'Sacrifice Vampire Hexmage'. Anything before a colon like that is a cost, and costs can not be responded to. Playing an activated ability like this goes through a number of steps, which are:
1. Declare the ability is being used
2. Put the ability on the stack
3. Pay any costs for the ability. If you can't, rewind the game state to before you declared the ability.
The ability is now on the stack and paid for. You and your opponents can now respond to the ability. The Vampire Hexmage in this scenario would be long gone before any player had priority to kill it.

In layman's (because I get overly technical sometimes): the sacrifice cost of the ability can't be stopped by a kill spell, but the ability itself still goes on the stack and can be responded to like any other spell or ability (not counting split second)

so if the first half is divided by the second half the first half is a cost? so sacrafice : whatever... you cans till stack because there's a break in the sentence?

Not divided by but yeah, everthing before the colon is a cost. Sacrificing vampire hexmage is the cost of putting the ability "remove all counters from target permanent" on the stack. There ARE cards that allow you to interfere with the ability going off or hitting the stack such as the Azorius Guildmage, but in general short of just casting a land destruction spell when you see them start tapping stuff there's not much you can do.

Sacrifice and tap abilities are annoying as all hell because even if you try to kill the creature they can just sacrifice it on the way out and STILL screw you. That's why vampire hexmage is basically a giant middle finger to planeswalkers unless you have shroud somehow.

if it said

sac hexmage and remove all counters
vs
sac hexmage : remove all counters

you can't stack #1, but you can stack #2 right?

The first one is ambiguous in wording, the second is obvious, but the first could be taken to mean that removing the counters is part of the COST of something. That's why unless it's on some old card I don't think you'll ever see that.

So can you or can you not stack so hexmage cannot remove.

You can put an instant on top of the "remove all counters" effect and pray it helps. Shroud or I THINK protection might work (not sure on protection), phasing if there's a legal option for that in standard would work and afaik might even let you use a planeswalker twice in one turn (REALLY not sure about that), and countering an ability would work.

Sweet so I could stack a path on it and not have my stuff removed?

No, sorry maybe my wording was a bit unclear. Only the effect goes on the stack, sacrificing the hexmage is the cost for that ability to be placed on the stack. By the time the ability "Remove all counters from target permanent" is on the stack and priority is passed back to you the hexmage is already in the graveyard.

The only way to deal with a vampire hexmage is to counter the ability itself (azorius guildmage, some counter spells) or to make sure it has no legal targets.

Protection does work for that, fyi. Also, you can't respond to someone playing or tapping a land, you can only cast a spell when you have priority. I can do a quick write-up on priority and what it means if you guys want, I just need to know if people want/need it.

That would help me as that is where I usually stumble on rules

And that'll go under MTG Rules, now I just need an idea for my new column...Eldrazi Green Deck Tech probably

Eldrazi green extended: Imperious perfects and skullclamp. Clamp the tokens, feed the clamped tokens to eldrazi, draw extra cards.

Skullclamp's not legal in extended, else I'd totally do it. As it is, combo elves is better.

Didnt know that.

*Shrug* Well Umbral Mantle is and combos with literally every creature that taps as long as you've got an archdruid and 3 other elves on the field. Infinite tokens, infinite life, and whatever you use it on gets infinite power and toughness.

Combo Elves in extended uses Cloudstone Curio. It's ridiculous.