Discussion Forum

of the cards revealed so far my favourite is the Angel of Jubilation, it will be such an awesome addition to my main multiplayer deck, I love when a new card fills a hole you never even really realized your deck had in the first place.

the UW and GW angels are also very nice and i'll be picking up one of each for my bant deck

other than those, nothing's really grabbed me yet, the new planeswalker is pretty meh.

as for the new mechanics: soulbind seems pretty interesting and im holding judgement on miracles until the whole set is out.. everyone is panicking over those already, yelling about broken formats and such...let's wait and see how many answers and hate for it comes packed in the set before freaking out.

Still, got any suggestion to a creature as powerful as "Vexing Devil" for just 1 mana?


1 mana do 4 damage to a player? that's pretty nice in my book
or
1 mana get a 4/3 creature

i play bw tokens, and i hate this set!

now that i have said that... my Q for the thread is; do you think killing wave is going to be used over bsz?

and the 4/3 is a threat, not a bonus, if you play that on turn 1 the opponent is going to take the damage, and while that's pretty good, and you may say "but sometimes you will get the creature" you will only get the creature when it suits the opponent for you to get the creature, so, i would prefer a 1 mana 4 damage to a player so that they don't get to have a choice such as;
Hmmmm im on 3 life and your going to deal lethal damage to me and i can redirect it and win the game, what should i do?.

though it may seem strange to read it, you will find that my logic is sound.

In reality, the devil is just a bit stronger than the last red "freak out" card, Goblin Guide. In the same time that the devil can smack someone for 4 damage, GG can also get in 4 damage, and reveal 2 of the opponent's topdecks (a 'drawback' I've always seen as an advantage). With haste, GG can also have a better chance of assuring early game damage. In this sense, the argument could be made that GG is actually better. However, the devil also comes with that other clause...another thing that looks like a drawback, but can really be an advantage. No matter how you spin it, starting off at 16 life against a RDW is an already losing battle.

Is it in the realm of ridiculousness? Maybe a little bit, but not as much as people are saying. However, with this devil guy and that 5 damage "miracle lightning bolt", it's no secret that RDW is going to come back with a vengeance.

I also have to agree with Seras. So far every one of the new legends is amazing to me, and Jubilation Angel's ability is pretty awesome.

http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/tcg/products/avr/z1r6slt3wx_en.jpg

Hi guys. :)

2 mana for a planeswalker... pretty nice.

I had just decided to stop buying new cards unless I really need them for a legacy tournament deck, but they keep printing stronger and stronger sets it's rediculous.

The blue walker looks awesome, really awesome. I'm glad she's 5 mana and not 4.

The new timewalk is absurt, why reprint timewalk??? wtf! I'm not going to buy it as I'm sure it will get banned soon enough, either that or they end up banning brainstorm and I quit playing competitive magic.

well Im glad they decided to make a 2cc walker....too bad they made him so horribly unplayable though

all i know is that i wont be buying a boosterbox for this set, id rather wait for the "lets reprint expensive cards" set that is the reutrn to ravnica.

I like Tamiyo, the Moon Sage a lot. It seems like she will be fun to work with :) However, I am not at all a fan of Tibalt mostly because of the discard a card "at random" aspect of its +1, which can be backbreaking when you have to activate it so much to access his more powerful abilities. Vexing Devil seems like it will be a great RDW card, and I think Demonlord of Ashmouth should definitely see use in RB Zombies over Falkenrath Aristocrat. Temporal Mastery will get banned soon enough, unless they ban cards like Brainstorm and Delver of Secrets. I could ramble about this forever...

I have included the pictures for Tamiyo and Demonlord of Ashmouth for those who haven't seen them.

i may have given the wrong impresion when i said that veximg devil isnt as good as it looks, i still think its one of the best cards in the set, i just wanted to clear that up.

tibalt sux, he is ezy to kill, +1 has little benifit, -4 isnt worth it because of how long it takes to put it into action, -6 is good, but will never be used because of how ezy it is to slow down or kill him, he starts on low loyalty, and has a full red mana cost, even if you argue that he slows the game down, he is only playable in rdw and rdw dosent need to be slowed down and would prefer incinerates.

what do you guys think of blink-soulbond, and ponder/skry-miricle?

i like wing crafter for architect decks and i think silver-blade paladin could be helpful to human/gheist aggro

can a creature with soulbond pair multiple creatures?, the text says [QUOTE]You may pair this creature with another unpaired creature when either enters the battlefield. They remain paired for as long as you control both of them[/QUOTE] so you cant have wingcrafter and silverblade give a titan flying and doble strike. but can you use a single wing crafter to give both the silverblade and the titan flying?

Ponder isn't actually good with Miracle because if the Miracle card was in your top three, you were going to get it soon anyway. Brainstorm is better because you can but Miracle cards in your hand already on top of your deck. I think that the flicker effects have the potential to be very powerful, and Soulbond seems like a strong mechanic. I think that a creature can only be paired to one other creature so a Wingcrafter would no be able to give both Silverblade Paladin and a titan flying at the same time.

You know, looking at what has been posted on the site so far, the card I find myself most entranced with has to be Tamiyo. Not only does she have an amazing finisher, but her abilities are all well-rounded. No blue "Jace the Big Jerk" is she, thankfully, but she can be abused pretty easily in :manau::manag: format.
The other thing that came to mind when I saw Tamiyo (and I'm sure it came to a lot of other MtG vets and players) is what she represents. The last time we saw her kind (Moonfolk, obviously) was about ten years ago. I'm going to postulate that this is one of Wizards' little subtle hints as to what the next major set will be related to in October. They did likewise with Sorin in M12, so it stands to reason to me that her sudden appearance out of the (yes, no pun intended) blue heralds a sequel to the Kamigawa block. Kamigawa was one of those sets you either really liked (as I did; I still use it often), or you really, really hated. Imagine, if the Kami return, we could see a lot of power plays in W/U spirits and tokens. I for one would like to see how this plays out.

EDIT: Sigh, looks like MaRo intends for a return to Ravnica first. While this makes me happy, I'm somewhat disappointed by his statement today.

So far of the new cards the one I'd like to get a couple of the most is: "Cavern of Souls"
Pretty much looks like an improved "Primal beyond"
many strong cards, though not many that'll fit into one of my 3 decks.

[QUOTE]Ponder isn't actually good with Miracle because if the Miracle card was in your top three, you were going to get it soon anyway. Brainstorm is better because you can but Miracle cards in your hand already on top of your deck.[/QUOTE]
i agree with both of these statements to some degree, but i only play standard, so brainstorm is out of the question, and with ponder you can plan when to play your miracles, such as choosing to use entreat the angels on turn 4 in stead of turn 2, or not casting any more creatures because you know that you are going to cast a terminus in a few turns.

[QUOTE=FFS L]tibalt sux, he is ezy to kill, +1 has little benifit, -4 isnt worth it because of how long it takes to put it into action, -6 is good, but will never be used because of how ezy it is to slow down or kill him, he starts on low loyalty, and has a full red mana cost, even if you argue that he slows the game down, he is only playable in rdw and rdw dosent need to be slowed down and would prefer incinerates.and the titan flying?[/QUOTE]


I have to completely disagree with this statement, just because seeing how good tibalt is, with the cards being printed...

Think about this one for example. Tibalt's -4 Ability, deals damage to your opponent, equal to cards in hand. so lets try something.

I've made a deck list, wthats BRW, using heartless summoning.
so, example

Play Gisela, Blade of Goldnight. She makes it so any sources you have deal double damage to players and permanents.

next drop good ol' Tibalt. Drop a volt charge, it deals 6 damage to your opponent, or a creature they control. That kills any 6/6 unless they can stop it from hitting, or can pump it. Then it proliferates Tibalt. and then drop another monster of a creature.

next turn, if you get a reforge the soul on miracle, thats a 2 cost. or even cast it for 5. you casted your gisela, you can cast reforge. now your opponent has 7 cards in hand. pop tibalts -4. thats deals 7 damage to your opponent. BUT WAIT! Gisela says sources deal double. so thats 14 damage, for using an ability, that simply says take off 4 counters.

i can not see anything bad about that at all. run it in the right deck, with the right cards, and you'll have the answers to keep him alive, for the time needed


This of course, is just my honest opinion. and one way to look at how strong tibalt really is

lol your situation is totally unrealistic

trying to illustrate the worth of one card with a convoluted situation requiring 4 other cards and 4 turns to set up doesn't really say anything about the card itself.

[QUOTE=Seras]lol your situation is totally unrealistic

trying to illustrate the worth of one card with a convoluted situation requiring 4 other cards and 4 turns to set up doesn't really say anything about the card itself.[/QUOTE]

you're kidding right?

because its no different for any most other good planeswalkers.

thats just a single situation, where he works, and for it to happen on turn 5, isnt a bad thing buddy.

lets look at mind sculptor for example... you want his last ability to go off, it takes turns and other cards to do so as well. most planeswalkers need gideon on the field in order for them to stick to what they need to happen to have them stay. the only reason it is 4 cards is because i used the idea of using a voltcharge. otherwise, to burn for eve 7 alone for an ability, can be a huge game change.

most planeswalkers, arent stand alone cards, so really to say that having to use other cards in order for it to stay is a bad way to justify the card, then you may as well say that about any planeswalker

ramp-burn doesn't work because burn needs to be fast and ramp isn't required

That deck is ti-color

how often does that combo actually work? you have 1/15 chance of getting reforge the soul when you need it, tibalt is one of the easiest plainswalkers to kill there is, Gisela takes ages to cast and is redundent anyway cause you may as well use burn other then tibalt, such as vexing devil and incinerate, and get just as much bonus from her, its a minimum 3 card combo, and you have no :manau: to make it work.

If you are going to go to all that trouble you may as well use normal burn you can use by themselves way sooner to have a lesser effect, by my count you are using 13 mana and can only perform the combo on turn 6 to deal 14 damage using 4 cards (not counting land) if i use 2 vexing devils, 1 incinerate 1 shock, 2 pillar of flame 1 mountain and 3 more mountains on top of my deck i can have an extreme advantage by turn 4 and win soon after without requiring specific cards.

[QUOTE=FFS L]
ramp-burn doesn't work because burn needs to be fast and ramp isn't required

That deck is ti-color

how often does that combo actually work? you have 1/15 chance of getting reforge the soul when you need it, tibalt is one of the easiest plainswalkers to kill there is, Gisela takes ages to cast and is redundent anyway cause you may as well use burn other then tibalt, such as vexing devil and incinerate, and get just as much bonus from her, its a minimum 3 card combo, and you have no :manau: to make it work.

If you are going to go to all that trouble you may as well use normal burn you can use by themselves way sooner to have a lesser effect, by my count you are using 13 mana and can only perform the combo on turn 6 to deal 14 damage using 4 (not counting land) if i use 2 vexing devils, 1 incinerate 1 shock, 2 pillar of flame 1 mountain and 3 more mountains on top of my deck i can have an extreme advantage by turn 4 and win soon after without requiring specific cards.
[/QUOTE]

lol the deck isnt a ramp burn deck for one.

you dont need a blue mana for gisela, shes RW, and with a heartless summoning in play, you can drop gisela by turn 4. the big creatures which will be dropping with the deck i built will hold it own against the 2 dmg your shock is going to do, or the incinerate. so your relevancy to saying that you can have a huge advantage by turn 4 is quite irrelevant. i can have gisela out on turn 4, with a solemn, and 2 vexing devils as well, which will be deal 3x more than your shock, and incinerate, with just having gisela on the play with them.

all i was saying is thgere is possibility, where tibalt, can work out well. and when you opponent has a full mit, and you are able to push it late game on your own, then its GG for your opponent.

because your statement can be used for any planeswalkers. i can burn into any planes walker and kil them with a shock, incinerate, and a pillar. so its such an irrelevant statement its ridiculous

uuuuuuguggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT SERAS JUST SAID????

1...yes, most plainswalkers aren't standalone, but this plainswalker has nothing to stand with

2...if you are trying to get a cmc 7 on turn 4 without cheeting it onto the field with Rites or something, ITS RAMP!

3...your situation is so unlikely that you may as well discard it, i dont say leyline of anticipation is a good card because you can use it with black lotus to put combos onto the field before the game starts

4...you can build a deck that; should you get jace, he would be helpful, but neither him, nor any other non-land card in the deck is at all necessary and anyway, jace is:manau: so combos work with him.

5...the point i was making with my sample burn hand was that that sort of hand is always drawn with burn rather then about 1/50

6...you still dont have an answer to the fact that you are useing a RR card in a tri-color deck

RomeArsen, could you post this deck in a different thread so that i can have a closer look at it?

[QUOTE=RomeArsen]
most planeswalkers, arent stand alone cards, so really to say that having to use other cards in order for it to stay is a bad way to justify the card, then you may as well say that about any planeswalker[/QUOTE]

actually the first thing ppl look at when evaluating a planeswalker is "does it defend itself"...some do this like ajani vengeant or tamiyo by keeping at least one attacker tapped, others like chandra deal damage to creatures or liliana makes you sacrifice one..and then there's the garruk/elspeth variety that put out tokens to block.

Tibalt's true worth is a hot topic these days and even the pros can't agree on whether he's great or simply horrible..we'll just have to wait and see how he actually performs out in the real world. Though now that the whole spoiler is out, we have a better pictures of the ecology he'll be running in so ppl will probably clarify their perception of him over the course of the week.

personally, i still think he's quite bad.

yeah, the deck is posted in the standard forum, in the tri color prerelease challenge thread.

Nd id like to apologize for any arguement, lol this is just my opinion on tibalt, i personally think hes going to be like that underdog type of aneswalker, like what gideon was back in rise of eldrazi, and being able to be taken out easily.

so no disrespect to anyone, if anyone may have misread my posts :)

The whole set was just released. I'm liking that green enchantment that buffs creatures by +3+3 whenever a spell targets them. Nice protection from having your creatures killed by burn, and a nice way to get +7+7 out of titantic growth, or +6+4 out of Wild Hunger. Wolfir SilverHeart is looking cool as well. Five mana for 12 power is a steal. Also the new multicolor land is a big FU to control decks.

Also RDW gets vexing devil, and Fantastic Recruits. Combo FR with HellRider and dish out 10 damage in one turn. Speedy Speedy Speedy.

Angel of Jubilation... Oh. My. God. VERY nice ability.

yay, they reprinted half of my favorite combo in the game... abundant growth! (the other card is arbor elf)

i was considering the idea of gw angels or gu spirrits because of bower passage

just noticed, silverblade paladin + another creature (say.... doomed traveler)
soulbond them, swing and joint the assult... lets seee... it becomes a 4/4 doble strike and a 3/3 doble strike, so 14 damage, and its ezy to swing with that on turn 4... add an honor... 18 damage... c ya, i have a deck to make.:D

oh, and add [QUOTE]that green enchantment that buffs creatures by +3+3 whenever a spell targets them.[/QUOTE] so now they are dealing a total of 30 damage:eek:

Wild Defiance would only apply it's +3/+3 to one of the creatures as Joint Assault only has one target.

Wild Defiance is going into my Kiln Pikelash deck.

damn, your right seras... travel preparations works though. and any of those burn cards that say distribute x damage between y target creatures, and i could use any burn cards that deal less then 3 damage as multi purpose. no, even better i can use prey upon for my control. maybe faiths shield to protect and make semi-unblockable.

:eek:HOLY SHIT SOULBOND CREATURES BENEFIT EACH OTHER AT THE SAME TIME!!!!:eek:

for instance; if i have a silverblade paladin and a wolfir silver heart paired i have a 6/6 double strike and a 8/8 double strike!!!:eek: