Discussion Forum

- your deck isn't legal (sol ring isn't legal in legacy)
- Tabernacle is legendary, playing 4 isn't all that, it also doesn't give mana
- Mishra's Factory and WinterOrb don't play well together

There was a nice stax deck that popped up a while back named trading stax

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/deck_tech_trading_stax_layer_7.html

I really liked how the guy played this deck and I think as far as win conditions go Elspeth works really well in stax. You also want Humility, it does so much, it just fucks up most decks and makes Mishra's Factory real good.

Actually, I think I'll sleeve this deck up and play it tomorrow at our FNM Legacy.

wa wo we wa, i totally forgot about sol ring being banned. and yeah! iv already checked out that layer 7 b deck tech, shit looks sweeeeeeeeet. i just really want to play winter orb. >_<

i saw a card called pendrall mists thats a 4 mana tarbarnacle enchantment, but 4 mana is too much, and while factory doesnt have great synergy with orb. in the slow game if i have them locked and have a crucuble in play i should be able to untap a land and play another land everyturn and be able to swing. its the only thing i can think of to win with that doesnt eat up deck slots.

i do agree that layer 7, and more traditional white lists are probably better, buuuut, like i said. i just really want to figure out how to get away with playing winter orb. haha
hmmm..

oh and i have 22 lands, not counting the tarbernacle, so im more so just playing it as a free spell.. but your right about the legend thing..
another card i was seriously thinking about is mana vortex, but i didnt have enough blue sources to push it consistantly. but maybe if i change some number of tarbanacle and switch out sol ring, maybe something like talisman of progress?

ok, sooo i was at work, thinking about this deck and i came up with a few ideas that might work out better-
http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=382549

tezzeret as a win/ a tiny bit of deck manipulation/card advantage. im still not sold on propaganda, the fact that it cant protect my planeswalker sucks. and while humility would def be better, i do feel propaganda fits better with winter orb, and thats all im really trying to do here.. get away with playing winter orb in todays legacy meta.. and not lose constantly.

i realized a prison deck like the old ones that used icy and orb just isnt gonna cut it now. i need something that benefites from playing an orb, but doesnt lose without it.

i thought about green beetdowns with mana dorks or a tempo ish style deck that only worries about 1-2cmc spells anyway or even merfolk could rock stasis or winter orb and get away with it. but as i started to think of cards that could be sweet with the orb it turned into a Frankenstein lookin stax list...

any input on the abyss? i like that it could keep me alive by killing creatures, and make my opponent sack lands to smokestack because he has no creatures, and get rid of manadorks. also works nicely with tezz's middle ability because it wont destroy my own artifact creatures.

I think the Abyss is pretty good, I've been wanting to play it in legacy for a while now (I own 1) but it hasn't come up yet.

I don't get your Propaganda doesn't protect planeswalkers statement, can you elaborate? It reduces the number of creatures that can attack and puts pressure on your opponents manabase slowing him down. That does protect planeswalkers does it not?

I sleeved up the Layer7b deck to take to the FNM tonight. I miss Tabernacle, I own 2 myself and I would like to play at least one but as I have no experience playing this deck I'm not eager to make the change just yet. Maybe I will sideboard my Tabernacles against Elves and Goblins kind of decks.

I think Tezzeret Agent of Bolas is a very good win condition, you might wnat to play 3.

The problems I see your deck running into are:

- You'll have a hard time beating Aether Vial
- You have a very high redundancy of cards which might cause serious problems like topdecking into all the wrong cards and just sitting there doing nothing.

Redundancy is good in a deck like this because in todays meta you'll have to play through daze, force of will and spell pierce which are all over the field in full sets.
Resolving a turn 1 Chalice will be one of the most important plays the deck can make. Thrinisphere is your Chalice 5 to 8, turn 1 or 2 trinisphere acts like chalice most of the time with the added benefit that it stops force of will and daze.

As you play blue you could play Fabricate and/or Thirst for Knowledge, maybe even Pithing Needle (against mostly Aether Vial) and Sensei's Divining Top

I really like the Bottled Cloister/Ensnaring Bridge lock in the Layer7b deck. It's really strong.

well my thinking on propaganda is its wording, it says creatures must pay 2 to attack you and your planeswalker is actually a different source so propaganda wont defend your planeswalker from being attacked.. am i right? but i do think its good enough to be in the deck, and works great with orb. and really, as long as i play tezz at the right time, he should be fine.

i agree with the fact that aether vial crushes me unless i get chalice out, some other lists i saw ran poweder keg or ratchet bombs mb for things like that, but im being brainless and playing orb mb instead >_<'

about the redundancy and dead draws, i was reading another forum and this poster was trash talking stax saying the player only makes one decision the whole game; whether to mulligan or not... not exactly true but still pretty funny

how was playing layer 7? gideon has always been one of my favorite planeswalkers so its cool that deck actually gets to play him.

It's noon here in Belgium, I'm playing Layer 7b tonight :)

- The decision making process for staxx isn't all that exciting true, one of the reasons I will probably never take it to a serious tournament. I like decks where skill makes the difference. Still that doesn't make stax a bad deck like for instance affinity. Stax is well positioned because it's a control deck that seriously messes up decks. I think it can be a pretty good meta call right now.

- you are wrong about propaganda, your opponent needs to pay 2 for every attacking creature period. Also creatures do not actually attack planeswalkers, they attack the player and damage is redirected to the planeswalker.

So I played the deck, going 2-1-0, it was only 3 rounds, usually we go 4 rounds. It was very intersting to play and it felt very strong. I think I'm actually going to keep playing it and take it to a bigger tournament.
Also I ended up taking far more decisions then just wether to mulligan or not :)

round 1 vs Sneak and Show: 2-1 win. This is a rediculously good matchup with humility and ensnaring bridge main.

round 2 vs Pox: 2-0 win. This was fun, and easy :)

round 3: URg Delver Burn. Just to much counters, it was almost mono blue with bolts and chain lightning and after side artifact removal. bad matchup. 1-2 loss.


conclusion: this deck is fun to play!!

wow, well thats good news for me about propaganda. ^_^

and thats awesome you did pretty well with layer 7! that set up looks awesome. my one buddy is has been ranting about how cool that deck looks for a few days now. haha

i made up some proxys of my orb stax list and im hoping to play some games with my friends soon to test it out.
they play maverick and ub show and tell

oh and i forgot to ask, how is trading post? seems kinda weird

so i played a couple games against my buddies maverick deck, and i lost the first game because he went first and i had to mull to 5 but the next couple games i completely dominated. i was on the fence about the orb being actually usefull, but in every game i played it dramatically slowed down my opponent.

t1 chalice for one is brutal, t1 chalice for one, t2 chalice for 2 caused him to straight scoop.

t1 trinisphere is an insane play also

this deck kinda surprised me with its overwhelming power lvl, i cant wait to play some more games with against other decks to see how it can hold up. im kinda psyched on how fun this deck is to play!

i didnt get a chance to play the abyss but propaganda did an excellent job of keeping me alive. i almost wanna run something like ghostly prison or maybe dream tides, to get another effect like that in there, but the list is extremely tight so im not sure.

trading post is awesome in this deck, it does so much. The lifegain is much needed and gets real strong with humility in play. Making a goat can be nice too. The 2 other abilities are fantastic as well, sacking an artifact to draw a card can get rid of smokestack when it has lets say 3 counters on it and you really need to get rid of it but just sacking an artifact land or an extra trinisphere to draw an extra card is nice. Taking an artifact back from the yard is really nice. Trading post is fantstic.

The only change I made so far is drop 1 Gideon for a Tabernacle. I'm defenately going to keep playing this deck. Like you said the powerlevel is awesome, dropping a chalice on one and getting it to stick is half won in most matchups.

Do test against decks that run a lot of denail like RUG Tempo. Playing through 4 spell Pierce, 4 Daze and 4 Force is very difficult especially when they have a turn 1 Delver.

yeah i was trying to get him to play my dreadstalker deck against me earlier but he wasnt feeling it >_< .. maybe next time!
i havent had a chance to play it against my other friends u/b show and tell either, and that seems like it might be a tough match as well.

what do you think about dropping abyss altogether and just running ghostly prison in that slot? then switching in gemstone mine, and the 3rd color splash shouldnt be a problem. being able to snag up the mine with crucible after its used up is nice too.. ..also the art for the newer ghostly prison is so much cooler than the kamigawa art was!

i guess i should just do more testing ^_^

The ghostly prison plan could work. Should give you an ok matchup against decks like goblins. My Layer7b really strugles in that matchup.

Talking about goblins, I sleeved up my goblins deck last night, I'm still waiting for my playset of Cavern of Souls to arrive but aside from that my deck is complete. Goblins are one of the best decks right now IMO, old school goblins combined with mainboard Thalia and a full set of cavern of Souls is really strong. I haven't been able to beat it with anything so now I'm going to learn how to play the deck myself :)

oh wow, that actually sounds pretty insane. do you have a list up online anywhere?

http://www.mtgdecks.net/decks/view/36869

wow, that deck looks so crazy.

Took the Layer7b to a 30 man tournament yesterday. Went 2-2-0. It still feels like a good deck but the 2 games I lost were so close and I you're so helpless against discard and countermagic. Kindo sucks

round 1: 1-2 loss vs UB Tempo-ish deck piloted by one of the best players at the tournament. Game 1 I beat him with Humility. Game 2 I loose. Game 3 I'm down to 3 cards, he has a flipped Delver and is beating me down. He plays Hymn to Tourach, I'm holding 2xHumility and a land and I can play Humility the next turn and win. Hymn takes my 2 humilities and I loose. The game actually dragged on a while as I play 2xTimely reenforcements but I'm topdecking and he has counter backup so I loose.

round 2: 1-2 vs Reanimator. Game one I crush him with Humility. Game 2 and 3 he gets a turn 2 Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur (broken ass shit creature) and the stax deck really can't recover from that and stand a chance against.

round 3: 2-0 vs Merfolk. I play Humility, he looses. game 2 he forces my Moat and I follow up with humility and win again.

round 4: 2-1 vs UBr Tendrils Storm Combo. Awesome deck and not a bad player. Game one he manages to go off through a Chalice on 1 which was pretty awesome. Game 2 and 3 I mulligan to Trinisphere and play a turn 1 trinishpere turn 1 each game. It slows him down enough for me to find even more hate and I win with factory beatdown.

The change I made to the deck so far is switch a Gideon for Moat which I was very happy with. I'm now thinking of dropping the 2 Sundial of the Infinite for a 4th humility and a 4th Trinisphere.

This will be my new build:


Maindeck:

Artifacts
1 Bottled Cloister
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Crucible Of Worlds
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Diamond
3 Smokestack
2 Trading Post
4 Trinisphere

Enchantments
4 Humility
4 Oblivion Ring
1 Moat

Planeswalkers
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Artifact Lands
2 Ancient Den

Basic Lands
7 Plains

Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Wasteland

Legendary Lands
1 Karakas

Sideboard:

1 Bottled Cloister
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Disenchant
4 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God

sounds like it was a fun tournament at least.

i cant believe the storm deck won with a chalice on 1 out! thats pretty crazy

your list looks pretty good too, the numbers seem tight. im not sold on trading post, but i havent played with it myself, so i really wouldnt know. it just seems kinda mana intensive and slow?

i feel like id wanna cut it and up the ensnaring bridge to 4 and bottled cloister to 2. or maybe even another moat or crucible.
when i was testing my version, any time i didnt have a crucible in play i was wishing i did. it does so much in this deck, like getting back land discarded with mox diamond, bringing back your city of traiters and wastelands, and fueling smokestack like a champ
..
but drawing multiples is terrible, so its tricky

why the 4 tormods cypt and 2 faerie macabre?

- I didn't really use trading post but I still think it's strong. But it's certainly a flexible slot, in no way required.

- Another Moat would be nice but I have only 1 and it's expensive so I'm not going to buy a second. Also the 2 white is a bottleneck. You want his deck to be as colorless as possible.

- Reanimator is a bad matchup in my opinion as they are fast enough to criple you before you can lock them. The Cryts cost 0 ad play around chalice, the faeries are uncounterable and play around all the hate you want to set up. Actually a 3/3 split might be good but I always fear discard.

- you're correct about wanting that second bottled cloister main, I always side in my second copy.

- if I had a second Moat something like Luminarch Ascension might be a nice addition. But you would want to build around Moat, Ghostly prison, ensnaring bridge, bottled cloister and not humility

ha, wow i wasnt even thinking about chalice when i saw those tormods crypts, thats pretty tech. ahaha ^_^