Discussion Forum

Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Unbreathing Horde

Right now I'm tring to build this deck 'zombie unbound' and one of the combos that is used in the deck is Mikaeus, the Unhallowed and Unbreathing Horde. My think is that as long as Mikaeus is out Unbreathing Horde will come back. My reason is because it has undying and never leaves the battle ground with any +1/+1 counters on on it. This deck was really cheap to make because all the creature card are not really popular and so they've been going for dirt cheap. Someone asked me to make a deck that can win about 70% of the time. It hard for standard at this point in time because they have done a really well job of making thing even. However, this deck has about a 70% win rate. The only thing I need is a sideboard. However, before anything else. I need to know if in deed the combo with Mikaeus and Unbreathing Horde works the way I think it works.
Posted 31 December 2012 at 22:01

Permalink

Mikaeus will make him a 1/1 so it will not die when it loses all counters, meaning the only way to kill it is to use a board wipe or spot removal since damage is prevented. However, If it dies to spot removal or a board wipe, it will likely still have the counters on it and will not trigger the undying.

If he has any counters on him when he dies, he will not come back. He will be very resilient though and tough to get rid of.
0
Posted 02 January 2013 at 08:07

Permalink

Do you mean to say it gives it a +1/+1? Good point but I wasn't asking that. However, I think you've answer my question. Another thing I bring up is something that you brought up about your comment on taking out Unbreathing Horde. Creature removal spells, such as, Go for the throat. Where they destroy a creatrue. From what I understand about the term destroy it means any lethal amount of damage. Unbreathing Horde says what it is dealed damage remove a counter. The way I have read the card is that, say, someone uses a 'go for the throat' on Unbreathing Horde the damage done from go for the throat to Unbreathing Horde would be prevented and as a result one counter would be removed from Unbreathing Horde. Do I have this right? It sounds too good but that's what the card says. I don't know all the rules so just point me to the rule that explains why this doesn't work. However, if it does work that's great. Also while we are on the topic. Say I put an enchantment on Unbreathing Horde that gave it undying. When Unbreathing Horde died whould it come back with the enchantment still on it?
0
Posted 02 January 2013 at 19:29

Permalink

701.6. Destroy
701.6a To destroy a permanent, move it from the battlefield to its owner?s graveyard.
701.6b The only ways a permanent can be destroyed are as a result of an effect that uses the word ?destroy? or as a result of the state-based actions that check for lethal damage (see rule 704.5g) or damage from a source with deathtouch (see rule 704.5h). If a permanent is put into its owner?s graveyard for any other reason, it hasn?t been ?destroyed.?
701.6c A regeneration effect replaces a destruction event. See rule 701.12, ?Regenerate.?

Lethal damage and the keyword "destroy" are two seperate effects but they both will destroy a creature. The horde is immune to one, but not the other. If someone uses a kill spell that reduces the toughness below 0, forces you to sacrifice a creature, or straight up "destroys" a creature, the horde will die and will not undying back if it still had any counters on it when that happened.

When a creature comes back from the graveyard via undying, it is a new object so anything that was on it previously is not going to be on it. (Auras, equipment, encodes, fortifications, counters, etc)

The horde is very powerful vs damage based effects since it prevents it all and just loses a counter. It also has the added effect of counting itself in the graveyard when it comes back from undying so it will get an additional counter from itself.
0
Posted 03 January 2013 at 07:31

Permalink

I thought Lethal damage and destroy. Were the same that's where the misunderstanding came in. So how does Unbreathing Horde count its self when it is coming back from the graveyard?
0
Posted 03 January 2013 at 19:28

Permalink

It is coming into play from the graveyard and it counts the number of creature cards in the yard as it comes in.
0
Posted 03 January 2013 at 21:27

Permalink