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Add Nekrataal and Venser, cut Verdict, Hindering Light, Esper Charm and Rune-Scarred Demon. Brainstorm is best when you have fetchlands to shuffle away dead draws, replacing them with Ponder may be the correct way to go. Then drop the land count to 23-24 and you should be good.

He's right, brainstorm is really aweful without the means to shuffle your library. Also I would suggest making up your mind about aither playing fast tempo or slow control, you can't have both.

Tempo

- low mana cost
- Unsummon is pretty good
- Geist of Saint Traft is pretty good (I would suggest playing a max of 1 batterskull and add another equipment like one of the swords)
- Snapcaster Mage is great
- you need reusable removal
- Sphinx's Revelation is really bad, playing it 4 times is unthinkable

Control

- Sphinx's Revelation might be playable especially in multiplayer
- high mana curve is ok as long as you can survive the early game
- everything Tempo is not done like unsummon becomes really bad


I hope you understand this difference because it's really important and mixing both slow control and tempo really weakens your deck. I know standard is way different then legacy but knowing your archetypes is useful in every format.

Thank you both for the quick replies. I made most of the changes mentioned. Swapped in ponder, dropped the sphinx to 2 (might just take it out all together), I dropped the control out of the deck...

I really want this deck to be fun and manipulative, but i don't like slow paced play. At the same time worry about lasting in a long drawn out game or in multi player.

Do you think i should drop stone forge and the equipment's all together? I worry that if creatures are bouncing around everywhere that the equipment's wont get much use...If i keep it in maybe use Nim Deathmantle?

Is the a better flicker creature than Nekrataal? Also what about adding Phyrexian Metamorph?

What is a good reusable removal?

Ahhhh! so many cards, so little time

Thanks again

- best removal is Swords to plowshares but pretty much anything will do as long as it's cheap so you can play it preferably as of turn 1 and then reuse it with snapcaster as of turn 3.

- Smother is ok-ish but I don't think it's going to shine in casual play. Better play something like Go for the Throat, diabolic edict, Grasp of Darkness...

- Nekrataal is pretty good but there also is Shriekmaw for simular effect and the possibility of faster use through evoke, and a better body with evasion.

- Stoneforge is solid low cost value, playing 2 is fine, I would not drop them below that unless you have a good reason (like for instance if you wanted to do something fancy with Shape Anew and Blade Splicer). I would suggest however to put in some useful equipment so that you get a toolbox if you do run Stoneforge.

Seriously thank you both for all you help. I updated the list to reflect how it currently sits. I have been play testing it today and it plays way more fun than I expected. I am still fat on creatures but I am sure they will thin themselves out over time.

A fun option if you want to abuse come in play effects in legacy is to play Recurring Nightmare (even a single copy can be great fun). Creatures that can be evoked (shriekmaw and Mulldrifter) are ideal for this purpose. And ofcourse the card is pretty busted and not all that hard to really abuse, you can pretty much take it as far as you like. Victimize is also a good one.

[QUOTE=Seth]A fun option if you want to abuse come in play effects in legacy is to play Recurring Nightmare (even a single copy can be great fun). Creatures that can be evoked (shriekmaw and Mulldrifter) are ideal for this purpose. And ofcourse the card is pretty busted and not all that hard to really abuse, you can pretty much take it as far as you like. Victimize is also a good one.[/QUOTE]

Evoke creatures are not ideal for Recurring Nightmare. You can only activate RN as a Sorcery. RN's strength is being uninterruptible aside from a hard counter which requires activating it as soon as you gain priority after casting it. Pretty much any creature with an enter/exit the battlefield ability can be abused with it though.

[QUOTE=_Epsilon_]Evoke creatures are not ideal for Recurring Nightmare. You can only activate RN as a Sorcery. RN's strength is being uninterruptible aside from a hard counter which requires activating it as soon as you gain priority after casting it. Pretty much any creature with an enter/exit the battlefield ability can be abused with it though.[/QUOTE]

You misunderstood. If you evoke a shriekmaw or a mulldrifter you get the effect and it gives you a target in the graveyard for a later Recurring Nightmare (I never intended to suggest respond to evoke tricks like you would do with something like momentary blink, because obviously you can't). For instance Evoke Shriekmaw, kill creature, play Recurring Nightmare, sac one of your dorks and get Shriekmaw back and kill yet another target, repeat.... The fact that they both have a great come in play effect and provide you with creatures in the graveyard make for a simple to build reanimation strategy.

This is already quite good without building in specific graveyard based strategies where you dump creatures from your hand or library into the yard.

[QUOTE=Seth]You misunderstood. If you evoke a shriekmaw or a mulldrifter you get the effect and it gives you a target in the graveyard for a later Recurring Nightmare (I never intended to suggest respond to evoke tricks like you would do with something like momentary blink, because obviously you can't). For instance Evoke Shriekmaw, kill creature, play Recurring Nightmare, sac one of your dorks and get Shriekmaw back and kill yet another target, repeat.... The fact that they both have a great come in play effect and provide you with creatures in the graveyard make for a simple to build reanimation strategy.

This is already quite good without building in specific graveyard based strategies where you dump creatures from your hand or library into the yard.[/QUOTE]

Ok, I can see that. I still wouldn't say they're ideal though. There are far better options for reanimation that really break the card in half rather than just being strong/fair plays.

[QUOTE=_Epsilon_]Ok, I can see that. I still wouldn't say they're ideal though. There are far better options for reanimation that really break the card in half rather than just being strong/fair plays.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I have a feeling this is true especially in formats like multiplayer but when we look at competitive 1vs1 legacy over the past 4 years its a fact that Recurring Nightmare has seen almost no play what so ever. Not even when Survival of the Fittest was still legal (well it was played but not by any means hot). Now there is one deck that has a good shell for it, Nic Fit, and most builds don't run it because it's usually just win more, there are more effective cards both for reanimator and fair decks like Nic Fit.

The problem with Recurring Nightmare is that it's not fast enough for competitive play these days and legacy doesn't really need a lot of reusable cards (it can use them but it won't sacrifice the card slots if there are cheaper alternatives, mana wise). In multiplayer or anything that does play a longer game I agree that the card is beyond busted.

Now I still like the idea of nightmare in a simple deck where you don't dump broken stuff in the yard just so you can reanimate it. A single or 2 copies of nightmare in a fair deck that doesn't focus on the yard is a very effective strategy (in casual) that doesn't invite others to build specifically to break your deck (graveyard decks break easily in my opinion). His deck can attack in many ways and that is a good strategy. Also think about it, the other guy has Scavenging Ooze, that usually poses a huge problem for your usual liniar focused deck. It screws up Snapcaster and reanimation strategies. I've been destroyed by Scavenging Ooze while playing UW Control in legacy.
That Shriekmaw is suddenly going to look real good :) (not if it's already in the yard ofcourse but 4 swords to plowshares, 3 Shriekmaw, 1 Vindicate and 2 snapcaster mages and a deck is getting pretty damn competitive in my book.)


:)



EDIT----------------------

I tweaked the numbers a bit, this feels better to me, but a lot has to do with my playstyle so don't presume this is the way to go for you, it's just an idea. I like control and this shell reflects that pretty well I think.

I didn't touch your landbase, it's something you have to playtest yourself and see what lands you have available. I'm used to playing with duals and fetchland so my thinking in that regard is way off. :)

1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Lightning Greaves

2 Blade Splicer
3 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Restoration Angel
4 Shriekmaw
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sun Titan
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Mulldrifter

4 Swords to Plowshares

1 Liliana of the Veil

2 Preordain
4 Ponder
1 Vindicate

2 recurring Nightmare

4 Arcane Sanctum
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Esper Panorama
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Plains
4 Swamp

or a very controly version :)

4 Shriekmaw
3 Restoration Angel
3 Mulldrifter
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Angel of Despair
1 Skeletal Vampire

1 Momentary Blink
1 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ponder
2 Impulse
2 Wrath of God
4 Mana Leak

1 Liliana of the Veil

2 Reccuring Nightmare

4 Arcane Sanctum
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Esper Panorama
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Plains
4 Swamp

Here is the deck as it sits currently. It seems to work fine in casual play but it is still too slow for any serious games.

//Artifact (3)
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Batterskull
1 Lightning Greaves

//Artifact Creature (2)
2 Phyrexian Metamorph

//Creature (19)
2 Blade Splicer
2 Desecration Demon
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
4 Restoration Angel
2 Shriekmaw
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Sun Titan

//Instant (8)
2 Go for the Throat
2 Swords to Plowshares
4 Unsummon

//Sorcery (6)
3 Ponder
3 Vindicate

//Land (23)
4 Arcane Sanctum
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Esper Panorama
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Plains
4 Swamp

Here is the MTGVault list

As always, thank you for the input and feedback

I think this is more stable and on about the same budget, will keep you alive as well against far more agressive decks

4 Lone Missionary
1 Viscera Seer
1 Reveillark
1 Body Double
1 Angel of Despair
1 Karmic Guide
1 Mulldrifter
1 Phantasmal Image
3 Restoration Angel
4 Shriekmaw
3 Snapcaster Mage

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Gifts Ungiven

1 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Damnation
4 Ponder
1 Vindicate

//Land (23)
4 Arcane Sanctum
2 Drowned Catacomb
3 Esper Panorama
2 Glacial Fortress
4 Island
2 Isolated Chapel
4 Plains
2 Swamp


Still suffers from some of the same weaknesses like you can't fight combo decks but I'm guessing you don't run into those often in your meta. If you do there are other ways to combat those like countermagic, hand disruption and maybe a gifts win package, like including a single Murderous Redcap.