Discussion Forum

[QUOTE=Sodien]I have tried to have as many spells with red and blue as possible but is considering bringing in a few of the better counter/burn spells.
[/QUOTE]

Is there a reason why you tried to use as many 2 color (gold/hibrid) cards as possible? What's the benefit? The way I see it playing RU is already difficult enough in a multiplayer format because you have almost no removal options (spot and sweep) and you can't accelerate the way green decks can so it's hard to keep up during a long game (unless you start blowing up land as in Obliterate ). So if you want the deck to perform you simply can't afford to play weak cards, you need the absolute best cards red and blue have to offer.

Thanks for responding Seth,
I am not a very competetive player, I seldom build my decks for winning, but instead for 'playing'. I expect to play this deck in a 4-6 player game and choose to go for a RU deck as I never play those colours.
The main reason for all the multi coloured cards is that I precive it to be the best way to be true to the izzet theme.

I deduct from reading a few of your posts that you are more of the competetive type, but if you can put yourself in my shoes and give input that would be appriciated.

I play for the joy of playing, when playing legacy that means winning, but when playing multiplayer formats like commander it's often the journey that is more fun then the outcome. The crazy situations, power plays, interactions, humorous situations, politics,...

Anyway it's true that being outmatched isn't my idea of fun. In recent years I started to feel like green based decks in commander overpower non green based decks and that not playing green, while fun, makes things so much harder. I do respect you picking your 2 least played colors and giving them a shot. That's a good thing.
I personally love both blue and red, I don't like non blue decks. I never play non blue decks and everytime I do I regret it and end up not enjoying myself. I also love red despite the fact that it's the worst of the 5 colors for multiplayer. But in my opinion it has the most interesting cards in the game (gold cards included).

When building this deck I would aim for the following:

- try not to miss land drops, blue is good at that with cards like Ponder, Impulse, Raven Familiar and add some mana acceleration by adding artifacts like Thran Dynamo

- Make sure you have ways to win the game, you don't need to win all the time but make sure you have a few good finishers. Insurrection is a great one. There are good 2 card combo's like Mind Over Matter with Temple Bell (and some way to suffle everything back like an Eldrazi) but they draw a lot of bad attention to your deck. You have locks like Vesuvan Shapeshifter and Brine Elemental. Basically tons of good options here...

- Include stuff where blue excells like
-- counter magic (Spelljack , Desertion, Overwhelming Intellect)
-- Card Draw (so many good options here)
-- Taking extra turns (Time Stretch and the likes)

-Include stuff where Red excells

-- giving haste
-- gaining control of creatures
-- big hasty powerful creatures that beat hard

I see your point and agree, I am very competetive like you discribe in most computer games.

Thanks for the extensive input and insight.

I would personally forego the gold card only theme to play more "izzet" spells. There are plenty of chaotic mono color spells in the colors that you're seriously hamstringing yourself by limiting it with the false sense of flavor.

Also, Terrain Generator and Druidic Satchel do wonders in an izzet deck with all the top manipulation and card draw. I would honestly cut some lands. Not a lot but Izzet excels at card draw, you should never miss a land drop in these colors as you can easily draw 4-7 every other turn so having 40 to make sure you hit your drops is just going to leave you flooded more often then not.

Thanks for the input Epsilon, that satchel looks like a perfect fit. I wonder, if there is any good cards with bonus scry from theros or elsewhere that could fit smoothly.

Yeah some of the gold cards are very much in the air but some of them specially the larger creatures have some very cool abilities, be it good or only decent ones.

Do you have any suggestion on where to start with the mana base? Is 35 too low or even too high.

[QUOTE=Sodien]Do you have any suggestion on where to start with the mana base? Is 35 too low or even too high.[/QUOTE]

You start at 40 and then depending on how many cantrips (cards like ponder, Preordain, Impulse, Telling Time) and other fast early game carddraw you include you drop your land count. I personally would not go below 36 but Epsilon usually plays less land then I do. For me it's always a bigger issue not hitting land early on then it is getting flood. I don't get flood often as I draw rediculous amounts of cards mid game and on and just shift through excess land that way.

2 other cards that come to mind speeding up land drops are

Walking Atlas
Explorer's Scope

A good card to have when you fear getting flood is Trade Routes.

I usually run ~34 in every deck... although some have gone up to 40 with more land based themes/needs. I also make sure to run enough ramp, draw or mana rocks to make up for the difference. Most groups will run a free Paris/Britney mulligan so it's good to use that to make sure you have 3-4 lands in your opening hand and from there you're usually set. If your group doesn't allow a free mulligan then it might be wise to include a few extra lands just to be safe. Try multiple approaches and see what you like best. There's not really a "right" answer.

Once you hit a certain threshold, drawing lands quickly loses value but the other options that help you hit your land drops are still useful. I'd rather draw a Windfall or Wheel of Fortune over an Island on turn 6 since things like that will set up the next several turns worth of land drops while giving me other fuel at the same time.

[QUOTE=_Epsilon_]Once you hit a certain threshold, drawing lands quickly loses value but the other options that help you hit your land drops are still useful. I'd rather draw a Windfall or Wheel of Fortune over an Island on turn 6 since things like that will set up the next several turns worth of land drops while giving me other fuel at the same time.[/QUOTE]

Well on the topic of wheel of fortune, while my system of playing to much land usually pays off it does backfire on me bigtime when people start playing wheel effects. I usually hold back a lot, slowly sculpt my hand to a perfect 7 that gives me very versitile staying power. When someone wheels mid game I usually end up drawing 4 lands and 3 random crap cards that are usually mana ramp related. That pretty much destroys my game.

I'm currenly building a new deck so I might give that 34 landbase a try :)

[QUOTE=Seth]Well on the topic of wheel of fortune, while my system of playing to much land usually pays off it does backfire on me bigtime when people start playing wheel effects. I usually hold back a lot, slowly sculpt my hand to a perfect 7 that gives me very versitile staying power. When someone wheels mid game I usually end up drawing 4 lands and 3 random crap cards that are usually mana ramp related. That pretty much destroys my game.

I'm currenly building a new deck so I might give that 34 landbase a try :)[/QUOTE]

...and that is exactly why I play them. People will usually say they're bad since you're giving your opponents 2-3x the amount of cards as what you're getting and such but making them pitch what they've been coveting for who knows how many turns is usually far more destructive than giving them a few extra random cards. I love Teferi's Puzzle Box for the same reason. Plus the interaction with Notion Thief... lol

I agree with this strategy, it's very disruptive to control decks and control players.

Thanks for all the help. Now I shall make my final picks and then figure out what cards I have and or need to buy.