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Kaalia of the Vast - EDH Deck In Progress - Suggestions welcome :)

Conjurers Treason
Hi everybody hows it going ?
I'm currently working on a deck idea that i'm sure must of been thought of before but doing my own variant of a Kaalia of the Vast EDH/ Commander deck.
Any input or thought's you have towards this deck and especially what problems would come up and even possibly how to work around them would be absolutely brilliant :)

The idea is to take control of opponents creatures with cards like mark of mutiny. use those creatures to attack opponent's or to sacrifice and gain life

Conjurers closet, or cloudshift will help maintain control of creatures before steal creature cards "until end of turn" rule runs out

I have also added sacrifice type effects for permanent board removal once obtaining control of opponents creatures so this deck can be played ether aggro or more stand still/ played out for MP
(At the moment I think a black based "opponent sacrafices creature" is a good answer to hexproof type decks)what do you think ?

Also I have added a couple of board wipes like Lifes Finale
Life's Finale will get you out of a tight spot if you picked a hand for an early game mana fix and will help you catch up when your ready.

In conjunction with Fiend Hunter or Oblivion ring type exile cards.
Once you use oblivion ring, or fiend hunter one of your own permanents,
Destroy all type cards will help bring them back, I was going to use Worldfire but turns out that's banned in EDH is there anything remotley similar unbanned ?

I have sacrificed brute force attacks with daemons and dragons to place a small human base to the deck hence my reasoning for a restoration angel based cycle.
This would also add the possibility of a graveyard cycle to not pay the extra 2 mana if your commander dies but use the cards like Restoration Angel, Unburial rites, hell's caretaker and disentomb

Boom + Armageddon are placed in this deck if you have drawn a quick mana fixed/ demon hand to get Kaalia out early, destroy the land and gain yourself 2/4 turns before you need to worry.

Olivia Voldaren Is also from out of the standard Human/ Angel + Demon heavy basis purely for her ability which matches this decks style of [obtain creature/ control creature or sacrifice creature]

I have sofar only thought to use the one dragon,Hoarding Dragonto help pull out artifacts ether ones you need then and there, or an Empires Artifact combo.

This deck sofar is playing out pretty fast and destructive but I know it has weaknesses (borros reckoner for one) not only that but my natural frustration with blue, This is why I like reverberate from the red as it can help me counter blue, Chandra the Firebrands second ability can also create a reverb cycle to gain control of, or destroy multiple creatures, does anyone know of any similar cards or have any ideas on this ?

Anyways Thanks for listening and I would much appreciate any help or discussion of the deck, questions on why I chose certain cards are more than welcome and might help me find other weaknesses in the deck design,

thanks for your time :)


http://www.mtgvault.com/bittermace/decks/kaalia-of-the-vastedhbitter/
Posted 01 December 2013 at 23:30

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12 replies

Ok so just realised that Worldfire is banned, bit of a bummer and a stupid error on my part but MTG Vault said it was legal in vintage, my bad but i'll try work a fix around.
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Posted 01 December 2013 at 23:46

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There's a huge weakness in your deck, what if your opponent plays a simular strategy and keeps iether stealing your general or shooting it down. It seems like your deck isn't doing much without its general. Also keep in mind that you are building a typical 1 vs 1 deck. In 1 vs 1 play you have a different ban list that can be found here http://duelcommander.com/banlist/. Cards like Sol Ring that are overpowered in 1 vs 1 are banned. And Sol ring is obviously an important card in your deck.

In 1 vs 1 there are a lot of people who play specialized general hate like Hinder, Condemn stuff that basically shuffles your general into your deck. It's a douche strategy but in 1 vs 1 you're not playing a casual multiplayer format anymore. You're typically playing broken generals in a singleton vintage competitive format so it's what you expect. Your deck is no exception to that, in multiplayer everyone would team up against you just because you play Armageddon. Multiplayer players hate mass land destruction. It's a typical 1 vs 1 aggro strategy.

I personally dislike 1 vs 1 commander but if you want to go that route beware of the typical deck strategies you will encounter. Make sure your deck functions without its general as well as with it and don't expect to be facing your typical easy going casual multiplayer decks to beat the crap out of.
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Posted 02 December 2013 at 08:39

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Minor correction... In 1v1 commander, you cannot tuck a general. If it would be put into a library, you can use the command zone replacement effect.
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Posted 02 December 2013 at 11:00

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Yes apparently so, I just read up on the duel rules. I never play duel commander, I know a few people that do and it's a totally different format. I tried it once against one of these guys and I was dead in 4 turns.
I did join a few FNM's a long time back (I think it was before these rules were up) and there I encountered people with a lot of card investment into shuffling generals away. Very lame. I didn't care though as I was playing one of my multiplayer decks and hardly even touched my general (which was progenitus :).
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Posted 02 December 2013 at 11:53

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Yeah... a lot of decks are extremely reliant on the generals and tuck is basically game over in 1v1 in those situations so they put a stop to it. "Win the game" shouldn't cost three mana or less. ;)
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Posted 02 December 2013 at 13:29

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Thanks so much for your time to reply to this :)

[QUOTE=Seth]Also keep in mind that you are building a typical 1 vs 1 deck.[/QUOTE]

This deck I will be general playing with 2/3 friends so I am not trying to create something simply for 1vs1

I noticed you have picked out a fair few faults to the deck Idea and thanks for warning me of some of the card's.

Can anyone think of anything to make this idea more reliable, aswel as alternatives for things like sol ring if I was to create a sideboard for 1vs1

Also I noticed you mentioned about it being reliant on the commander but I have tried to set it up to only really rely on her for the big deamon creatures, as mentioned the whole [steal creature keep creature] was my game plan to try not rely on the commander so much, any ideas how to make this work better would be great :)
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Posted 02 December 2013 at 17:03

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Kaalia of the Vast has a pretty bad color combination for multiplayer. It's one of those rush in generals. If you were to make a multiplayer/long game deck using her see to it you have enough resources not to fall behind. That means playing a lot of land (usually 40 and I would not play less in this deck), artifacts that give you a good boost like Thran Dynamo (which you already have so that's good), Gilded Lotus, Coalition Relic (which is really great) and all the card draw black can give you. Of her 3 colors black is the only color that allows you to draw cards so you will have to look up all the cards that allow you to draw more cards like

Necropotence
Phyrexian Arena
Decree of Pain
Ambition's Cost
Ancient Craving
Promise of Power
Read the Bones
Sign in Blood
...

On top of that I would focus on creatures that have a strong come in play ability or at least an ability that can be activated immediatly (so without a tap symbol) so that when people shoot down your creature you at least have had some benefit from playing it.

Lord of the Void is a good example of what I concider to be a very weak creature. It's a huge mana investment and doesn't do anything for at least a full turn. I've played it and it's clearly a win more card, it is only good when your opponent is already out of resources. It doesn't help you out of a bad situation.

Kaalia really promotes that, you think you can easily play these huge cards and have them connect through her effect. In multiplayer I would not bet on it.

A second piece of advice, try to identify all the cards in your deck that are like Gleam of Battle. It's expensive (6 mana), does almost nothing (a single +1/+1 for attacking creatures...) and it's a typical aggro card that causes card disadvantage and in multiplayer it's very bad.
If you play a card, think in terms of card advantage. For instance you could play Debtors' Knell, it does give you card advantage (although it's slow but then again people usually sweep enchantments every turn) and probably does a lot more damage then Gleam of Battle.

Sweepers: Life's Finale is a dangerous card, it's overcosted for something that only destroys creatures and multiplayer is a game where people abuse the graveyard so be careful playing it. It's only good when you have mana open for a ressurection spell. Try cards like Merciless Eviction, Akroma's Vengeance, Oblivion Stone, Austere Command, those are some of the really good sweepers.

good luck
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Posted 03 December 2013 at 08:30

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The "of Empires" set of artifacts is terrible for EDH. The odds of you assembling all three is astronomical and they are all pretty useless on their own. Even if you were to get all three, the effects are very sub par and can be done better with less invested...

I would run all three of the in color Signets for Kaalia. Turn 1 Sol Ring/Signet is pretty rare but it still enables a turn 2 Kaalia which is extremely scary.

Fireshrieker isn't that great with Kaalia. You want additional combat steps instead of double strike with her.

Racecourse Fury is pretty bad. Just run Fervor or Hammer of Purphoros for flat haste or Swiftfoot Boots for the paid haste that also will protect your creature.

Replace Animal Boneyard for the lands that actually do that innately. Miren, the Moaning Well and High Market.

I would cut Diabolic Tutor... it costs too much. Try Diabolic Intent which costs the same as Demonic and also doubles as a sac outlet for your stolen creatures.

Boros Charm pretty much belongs in every deck that has both colors. Especially when you're also playing land destruction.

I would include more card draw as you don't have much currently and Kaalia decks really suffer from running out of gas. Even if she's more of a sub strategy, card draw wins games.

You need more spot removal as well. I know you want to steal everything but some things are too dangerous to be left alive.

You're not running all the ETB threaten creatures... Conquering Manticore and Molten Primordial would both fit very well in here.

Don't forget Earthquake variants as a reasonable wipe in Kaalia decks. All of the Kaalia critters fly so your board is generally left alone while you can wipe out everyone else.

Master of Cruelties will put a high priority kill on sight target on your deck. If Kaalia is more of a back end strategy, I would cut this so you're not hated off the table ASAP every game. It's a good combo to kill one player but the risk of it is too dangerous to ignore.

Tariel, Reckoner of Souls definitely belongs in a deck like this. You might even be better off just using her as the general. Kaalia has a reputation that will put a target on your head while Tariel is far more tame and will give you a bit more time to work.
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Posted 03 December 2013 at 09:46

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I agree that haste is very Important for your deck, it's basically the one big reason why people like to run red. Creatures like Urabrask the Hidden and Anger seem invaluable to me. If you run Karmic Guide which is always a good idea that Urabrask the Hidden becomes a real good option even in the yard.
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Posted 03 December 2013 at 10:38

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Hi guys thank you so much for your help sofar :)
I have took allot of what you guy's have said into consideration
some of it is still a little over my head but have made some changes to the initial idea including some of the cards suggested

http://www.mtgvault.com/bittermace/decks/kaalia-of-the-vastedhbitter/

If you get chance to take a look help evolving this deck would be a huge help

again thanks for your time and effort in helping me this far :)
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Posted 04 December 2013 at 03:47

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card draw, you don't have any
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Posted 04 December 2013 at 07:52

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Think it's Finally shaping up guys thanks for your help it's been much apreciated :)

http://www.mtgvault.com/bittermace/decks/kaalia-of-the-vastedhbitter/
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Posted 05 December 2013 at 23:26

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