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In regards to whether or not it cancels out the legendary rule because of his ability, I would say yes as the effect is happening as he is entering the field so it can be used to return the other legendary to your hand before the "Legend Rule" takes place as they both have to be on the field at the same time.

The one question I have is why do it to return him to your hand if you have a exact copy on the field in the first place? Unless it was used in a chain for a storm ability on a card to multiply the effects that would take place. :D

Hope that helps

The oracle text for venser is "When Venser, Shaper Savant enters the battlefield, return target spell or permanent to its owner's hand". Bolding is mine to highlight why this won't work: before the ability resolves off the stack the legendary rule, which is a state based effect, will take effect and kill them both.

State based effects are treated completely differently from everything else.

Sorry, I agree with you as I miss read the ability it does indeed state that once he has entered that it happens so the "Legend Rule" does apply.

Thanks for spotting that Shadowex3.

The legendary does not use the stack, so venser enters the battlefield, his effect is put on the stack and the legendary rule triggers, immediatly. Both vensers are destroyed before the effect on the stack triggers. The bounce effect still resolves but you can't target venser or if you did your target would have become invalid by the time the effect triggers.

[QUOTE=Naairda]The one question I have is why do it to return him to your hand if you have a exact copy on the field in the first place?[/QUOTE]

to save him from any kind of nastiness targeting him.

thanks for all the replies

I've discussed the scenario with at least a dozen of my mates that play MTG, and we have come the conclusion that in that scenario the card would work before the "Legend" Rule applies but that's the opinion of me and 20 people, so if your ever in Australia we'd allow it to be played the way that I originally stated. :D

:) But if it's allowed I'd suggest using it with Storm Abilities so that if used correctly it'd set of a massive chain reaction that would hurt a lot. :)

Yeah, legendary's a state-based effect, so it happens without any chance to respond to it, or any chance for abilities to resolve. both die, and you don't get your shenanigans. There may be other ways to do that though (Vedalken Orrery and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir come to mind...)

No, this one actually works NightLoki. The Venser thing didn't work because by the time his ability came off the stack there were no legal targets left. This one works because the two dudes come into play and their stuff goes on the stack but before priority is passed the legend rule kills both and THEN the stack goes off.

what's this one? I was talking about the Venser one, playing a Venser trying to save a Venser already in play? Did I miss a thing?

i think he posted in the wrong thread....comparing this situation with the other one which was based on a legendary creature with "when this comes into play, put a creature in your graveyard back into play".

they're very similar...the other one works because by the time the ability resolves both legendary creatures are in the graveyard.

yeah, the other one was the Sharuum question, i know that one works because a buddy of mine uses it in an EDH deck. That deck is insane

how could it work in an EDH deck? you can't have two copies of it.

Sculpting Steel and a billion ways to fetch/recur it

Yeah sorry I'd been up for 24hrs and I keep tabs on this forum mostly through the email subscriptions that get shunted to my phone, I thought this was the Sharuum thread.

however Shadowex, this is the Sharuum thread. 24 hours does that people, don't worry about it.

lol no, it still isn't :P

ah shoot. Now I'm guilty of sleep-typing. I got mislead by my own post too.