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A revised version of this deck can be found at: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=240601 The deck is constructed such that all creatures cost either 1, 5, or 6 mana purposefully to ensure maximum opponent disruption via Ratchet Bomb with minimal self impact. Fast mana to ensure quick land destruction with Charmbreaker Devils to make the LD spells hop back to my hand every upkeep. Grim Lavamancer lets me control what instant(s) or sorcery(s) I want in my graveyard. This gives me the ability to control the Charmbreaker Devils "random" card return. Surgical Extraction is to remove all copies of weenie creatures I've Incinerated or Ratchet Bombed, thus diminishing my opponents access to low casting cost resources. Or, even better, third turn destroy a non-basic land and pay 2 life to remove all copies of that land from my opponents library. Bye, bye little Inkmoth Nexus, etc. Yes, I know that Surgical Extraction is (B), and I only selected (R)(G) as the deck colors, but I consider those to have a 2 life cost with it just being a bonus that the Birds could negate that. Sideboard: Beast Within accelerates things, but with a risk of getting beat down by my own creations. I'd probably only side this in against control/counter. The Grimoire of the Dead lets me play with fatties my opponent has discarded because s/he can't cast due to the land destruction. With the inclusion of Surgical Extractions as a key card in the deck, this is probably going to come out of the sideboard. Not sure yet what will replace it. Fog versus weenies - It doesn't get simpler than good old Fog. Daybreak Rangers (I certainly intend that most turns my opponent won't be able to cast due to lack of land, ensuring the transformation. Then a little one-on-one combat against a 1 or 2 casting cost critter shouldn't trouble its Werewolf form, and is reusable.) I may be criticized for not running Beast Within main board, but with the mana curve I've built I can almost always cast a four mana by the time I can cast a three. I know it's an instant, but with the generally pathetic creature power base in this deck, I'm afraid of getting beat down by my own creation. Bramblecrush can take care of Planeswalkers just as nicely, as can Ratchet Bomb, if need be.
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Damn. I really like it. You obviously put some time on this one. I not sure how i feel about avacyn's pilgrim, but i see that your just look for quick mana. Maybe instead of avacyn's pilgrim try viridian emissary. He's a good 2 drop and it would be okay to kill of with ratchet bomb... Could you maybe check out my land destruction deck? I dont think its as good as this one but never the less could you maybe give some feed back? http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=236416
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After drawing through countless test hands, I found that the Avacyn's Pilgrims just weren't needed for the quick mana as much as I thought they were. I replaced them with 2 Melt Terrain's and 2 Grim Lavamancers. The Melt Terrain's because I wasn't reliably getting my land destruction sorcery's despite the presence of 8 of them. The Grim Lavamancer lets me do a couple of things. First, I can remove the extra land destruction and Incinerates to leave only the sorcery or instant of my choosing (making the "random" effect from the Charmbreaker Devils non-random.) Second, I can remove creatures from my graveyard to prevent a deck that can reanimate from any graveyard from killing my own lands with my creatures come into play effects. At least in just simply draw outs it seems to flow pretty consistent. Haven't decided on a sideboard, but am thinking about dropping in some combination of u/g and u/r lands with Mana Leak's. It would be a total change-up, but could prove just as interesting with the Charmbreaker's. Also seriously looking for space to stick in a Grimoire of the Dead. An opponent stuck with a hand full of big creatures s/he can't cast makes nice fodder for it.
Haha. That sideboard is a complete change up, love it. Also i like the lavamancer idea. That will work great for getting ride of excess sorcery spells. Grimoire of the dead is going to be sick in this format, with graveyard seeming to be the common theme to everything.
The big concern I have is that if I stop pulling Land Destruction and my Charmbreakers don't make an appearance, I've just prepped my opponents graveyard for them to reanimate like mad. Once Skaab Ruinator could do this deck in. Because of that kind of thing, or a cheap creature with power/toughness based on the number of creatures in your graveyard, I'm also tinkering with Into the Maw of Hell. I don't really want them main deck due to the cost, but if I put them in the sideboard I won't have space for my swap to "Counter Mode."
Hmm. Well maw of hell is a great card but it cost a ton to get going anyways so i wouldn't bother. I think you should just add some nihil spellbombs and remove the opponents graveyard all together that what i did for my Angelic Stalker's sideboard. The nihil spellbombs are going to be in everyones sideboard because of all the graveyard abilities. Hey i already made an updated version of my LD deck, could you look at it and tell me what you think? http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=238014
Nice i see you went with the maw, and some surgical extrations, that will work well with grimoire of the dead, maybe try 2 grimoire and 3 daybreak or 3 fog, that way your more likely to draw a grimoire when you sub it in. Nice, it looks goood.
The Surgical Extractions are kind of an odd choice for me, as it's not specifically a "discard" deck. My thought is that if I can take out small creatures with an Incinerate or Daybreak Ranger and "extract" all copies, I can leave them with minimal land and nothing small in their deck to cast. That's the theory at least. I'm quite rusty, having been back in the game for just a few weeks after being out for ten years, but I do try to make sure that each card choice is as strategic as possible.
I like it, especially the Surgical Extractions to help with eliminating the rest of whatever threat they managed to cast onto the field with the little mana they have available. I almost think that I'd rather swap Into the Maw with Extraction, just because of the amout of land destruction you have, it should hopefully keep anything that large off the field fairly effectively. The recursion for spells Charmbreakers seems like a nice finisher, especially with the Lavamancer letting you select what you want to pull back.
Thanks for commenting on my LD as well! (http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=237244) Definitely a bit of a different take on the style. If any of y'all have further input on it, that'd be much appreciated.
It wasn't until after countless draw-testing that I relented and put in the Maw's. The mana production of the deck is so quick that getting to the 6 mana for the Maw isn't too tough. I originally put in 2 Melt Terrain's and a fourth Incinerate, but discovered that by the time they appeared I had the mana to cast both at the same time. Enter Maw. It IS basically casting both, but cycled with the Charmbreaker it means I can kill both a land and a creature every turn.
The single biggest threat that warrants the Maw's is Skaab Ruinator. If my LD slows down for even a couple of turns, and one of those hits the board, I have no way to respond.
Interesting. It seems like Extraction and Nihil would be even more potent against Skaab, due to the high additional cost of 3 creatures being in the graveyard. The only way to do that efficiently is likely discard or self mill, and Extraction provides a way of getting rid of any of those once and for all, while Nihil just gets rid of anything that they have to pay the cost with.
You're right, of course, about the Extraction and Nihil. The two-for-one effect is really the appealing part of the Maw. With the Skaab being castable from the graveyard, though, you are probably right. The three creatures in the graveyard won't be a problem for my opponent as I am giving them the perfect opportunity to discard as many as they'd like by virtue of a full hand and no mana. The even bigger plus to the Extraction is that it can be used on non-basic lands. If I can pop 1 Inkmoth Nexus, I can get rid of all of them. In the current environment, that means against most decks I'd have deck-land-removal. Very compelling thought. The remaining question is whether I can back off one land (down to 20) and replace a Forest as well as the two Maw's. Thanks for making me really think about that one.
That's exactly what I've been thinking about with extraction. It really seems like an effective counter to a wide number of the more potent decks that have been dominating standard recently: Valakut: Obviously. It's land destruction. Pop one, then pull the rest of this main combo piece from the deck. If you can hit the Titan, the deck is essentially done. Inkmoth/Blightsteel: As you said, if you can pop one Inkmoth, you can keep this from ever going off. Tempered Steel: Getting rid of the enchant wouldn't necessarily shut this deck down completely, but it removes almost all of its tempo. Caw Blade: Without the mana to both cast and equip swords on the same turn, this deck loses a great deal of tempo. This is besides the fact that many of them only run limited copies of the swords, allowing the destruction to handle that threat rather effectively. Extracting a squadron hawk turns the card into an expensive 1/1, in a deck that doesn't run many cheap creatures in the first place. Granted, the hardest deck to deal with is going to be control, but even that can be challenging if you force them to tap out every turn. As far as that goes, I think that's one thing that would make Beast Within worth considering, at least for a sideboard. Especially running Llanowar and BoP, you can easily drop it on turn 2, and since it's at instant speed, you can mess with control decks by forcing them to counter something on their turn, rather than yours, hopefully allowing you to cast something bigger without threat of counter on yours.
You've got a point with the counter decks, and it may be worth dropping the two Maw's, extra Forest (unnecessary without the Maw's), and one Fog to put four Beast Within's in the sideboard just for control decks. I've been out of the game for a long time, and I'm still working out the rusty spots. I hadn't actually paid close enough attention to EVERYTHING the cards I'm already using do. The Acidic Slime's could take out a beast despite their inferior power due to deathtouch, the Invader Parasite's have the three power needed to take out a Beast, and unless I'm mistaken a zero counter Ratchet Bomb could be used in a pinch to eliminate a Beast. Do you think counter is going to be dominant enough in the new Standard to warrant main-boarding three of them in place of the Incinerate's?
That's really what I'm not sure of. I'll have to give it a few tries before I decide what kind of priority they deserve. The extreme utility of the card is what would incline me towards including it, but I'm not certain how the beast would end up working, and whether that should remove it from the running. I guess that's something where you'll just have to play and see... =)
I like this, makes me want to design (yet another) Land Destruction deck :p
Thanks! If you do build one, please link it here. I'm always interested in seeing what someone else comes up with.
Anybody have any thoughts on whether I should drop the Incinerates in favor of the Daybreak Rangers? I already dropped back to 3 Charmbreaker Devils and am thinking about going down to 2 and swapping the third and the three Incinerates for Daybreak Rangers. It does mean I risk needing to pop my own creatures with a 3 counter Ratchet Bomb, but the Rangers can handle many 3 casting cost creatures without needing to use the Bomb.
I dont know. I like the flow of the deck the way it is. If you find the daybreaks need you can always sub for them. They seem like the can be easily foiled, with weenie decks, even though your constricting their land, it can still be a gamble. I really like the way this deck has evolved. And glad to see you switch out melt terrain for tectonic rift. Rift is much better IMO.
The Tectonic's have always been a staple, but I did ditch the Into the Maw of Hell's. Surgical Extraction as a pre-drawn land kill (for non-basics) is fantastic. What I really like about the Daybreak Rangers is that if I can get one out and working against weenies with a Surgical Extraction bouncing back to my hand from the Charmbreaker Devils, my opponents deck disappears very quickly.
Why no Ghost Quarters? Rules: {T}: Add {1} to your mana pool. {T}, Sacrifice Ghost Quarter: Destroy target land. Its controller may search his or her library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle his or her library. This way even if they have a dual land out, you can destroy it and have them fish for a basic land and you destroy that one too.
I think you miss the point of this deck. The goal is to maximize your advantage in mana, reducing their available mana as much as possible, while ramping yours into your win con. Ghost quarters does the reverse of this. You remove land that you have available, while not changing the amount of mana available to the opponent. It's great if you're running non LD, and need an answer to something like, say, Inkmoth Nexus, but it doesn't fit this deck type nearly as well.
andorman is mostly right. I'm not ruling out the possibility of perhaps 2 of them. The upside of Ghost Quarters is that I could take out two land in one turn without needing 8 mana. Also a plus is that, even though you fetch a land, if I have the card in hand to destroy whatever you fetch it reduces the amount of land in your deck for you to draw the following turn(s). My reasoning for not having them is a bit more basic. I have Bramblecrush/Acidic Slime which require GG and Invader Parasite which needs RR. I have Copperline Gorges which are going to come into play tapped after turn 3 and Rootbound Crag which is going to come into play tapped if I can't pull a basic land. Putting in Ghost Quarters means either pulling basics and putting my Crags at risk, pulling Gorges which reduces my access to either G or R at will, or finding a non-land card to remove. I'm certainly open to the idea, but would be curious to hear what you think about the concerns I just expressed. Thanks for the feedback!
Ghost Quarter would also ensure that I've got land to destroy when I have the mana and cards in hand to do so. Still not sold on it, but not writing it off.
There is a card that nobody has suggested yet, and I am curious why. Karn Liberated. For my part, I'm an old-fashioned player who's been out of the game for a decade. To my mind, Planeswalkers just feel wrong. It could be very potent in this deck, alternating between making my opponent discard and destroying a land. I'm unwilling tp pay enough to buy a couple, but may try to trade for a couple and see if they have a spot in this deck.
Thank you to each of you for the constructive criticism. After playtesting this evening and realizing how truly ill-prepared this deck was to defend itself, I've made some relatively minor (but very significant) changes and re-posted it at: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=240601 Please continue to give me feedback on that deck. Thanks again!
After reading the thread here and getting some feedback on my own LD deck i went and completely gutted the one i had and came up with this. If youve got time to take a look and let me know what y ou think id really appreciate it! http://www.mtgvault.com/jnmugno/decks/land-destruction/