Exquisite Bond

so combo's that are infinate are illegal?

Just uncontrolled ones. If the combo has mandatory triggers, meaning there is no way for the player to say if the combo will activate or not. So, there is no way to stop it once it starts.

Infinite combos are legal if the player can choose to stop it, even if it could continue.

This is wrong. The combo only results in a draw if your opponent controls a Platinum Angel, Phyrexian Unlife, or some other effect that prevents them from losing the game.

Losing the game from having 0 or less life is a state based effect. It is checked for every time a player gain priority, which will occur before each trigger resolves.

The stack looks like:
You make an opponent lose life
Exquisite blood trigger goes on the stack
trigger resolves, causing you to gain life
Sanguine bond trigger goes on the stack
trigger resolves causing opponent to lose life
Exquisite blood trigger goes on the stack
trigger resolves, causing you to gain life
etc, etc

There arent multiple triggers on the stack at once because the resolution of each trigger is what causes the next trigger to go off, not the placement of it on the stack.

The loop wouldnt be infinite because at some point your opponent will drop under 0 life. Then they will lose the game as a state based action unless some other effect prevents that from occurring.

Yes and no. I argued that way as well, but it doesn't matter. Only the fact that it is uncontrolled. That the player cannot choose to stop it. That is what qualifies it. The potential to have inf. Effects triggering each other with no controlling players interacting with it.

Can you provide any source for this? It doesnt even make sense. The loop doesnt stack on itself, its completely incremental.

A trigger goes on the stack, active player gets priority, opponent gets priority, then the trigger resolves. This causes a second separate trigger to go on the now empty stack, and then each player gets priority again before that can resolve.

A player can lose the game at any point between those triggers resolving. It doesnt matter if its a mandatory trigger, the trigger isnt going to somehow continue looping after your opponent loses the game because losing the game causes the game to end.

These threads are all being responded to by rules advisors and judges:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29101759/Exquisite_Blood__Sanguine_Bond_=_Infinite_damage__Life_gain_loop?pg=1

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29128133/Sanguine_Bond__Exquisite_Blood_--_Rule_Clarification?post_id=519874047#519874047

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=414833

Here is a blog actually run by Magic tournament judges:
http://blogs.magicjudges.org/rulestips/2012/05/exquisite-blood-sanguine-bond-end-the-game-once-your-opponent-loses-life-or-you-gain-any/

Who is saying this is illegal? If it is, apparently most judges dont know they are supposed to stop you from doing it.

Rule 104.4b should not be coming into play here because the key phrase is "no way to stop". One of the players losing the game is a clearly definable "way to stop".

*104.4b: If a game that's not using the limited range of influence option (including a two-player game) somehow enters a "loop" of mandatory actions, repeating a sequence of events with no way to stop, the game is a draw. Loops that contain an optional action don't result in a draw.

However,rule 716.4 states: If a loop contains only mandatory actions, the game is a draw. (See rules 104.4b and 104.4f.)

This loop contains only mandatory actions, resulting in an automatic draw.

Rule 716.4 explicitly references 104.4b. The wording here is entirely open to interpretation unless there is a source for some official ruling on this. The loop doesnt "only contain mandatory actions" it also contains the opponent's life points dropping below 0.

These rules were all created to prevent the game from stalling out due to an unbreakable loop that doesnt actually do anything. Situations like three O-rings repeatedly exiling each other forever if there are no other legal targets in play. There is no reason for them to be applicable to situations which will not cause a game to stall.

Where in the loop foes it give the controlling player an option to cease the combo? There isn't any such statement on the cards. Bond says you gain life when opponents lose life. Blood says an opponent losses life when you gain it. There is no option to control if it happens or not. Thus it is mandatory. It has to take place, because there is no other option for the controlling player to make.

"target opponent loses that much life" - Right there. The loop doesnt just contain a repetitive action that cannot be stopped. It is affecting the game state with each repetition. Your opponent losing the game seems to be a reasonable option for ceasing the combo. Triggers do not continue to go off after the game is over.

Seriously, this combo has been blatantly obvious since the instant people first saw Exquisite Blood. Surely there would be some official source somewhere that could be referenced if this wasnt considered a legal play...

Instead, every search that I do to find an answer on this one only finds judges saying that it works.

I know it is blatantly obvious.i was the first to post it here. I would love for it to be legal. I am gonna email wizards, and see what they say.

Well, Wizards got back to me... The combo is legal. :). That makes me happy.

cool. No saying it is a bad deck. Normally activating that combo would make you lose. But casual allows you a little more freedom in rule following. if your group agrees on it , then you can play it. casual is less strict. you can bend the rules a little bit. :)