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This deck is in brainstorming stage.It's built around Hive Mind. The idea is to combine it with cards that give me hexproof. I will play this in multiplayer (pentagram, mostly). So, the idea is to throw around instant and sorceries that my opponents may copy but can't target me with. This deck is more of a fun project. The goal is have Hive Mind and Witchbane Orb in play and then watch the opponents killing themselves/each other with targetted spells that they are forced to cast but can't target ME with. I don't want to win, I just want to have some fun and mess around with my buddies.The tricky part is:That we play pentagram a lot. In free-for-all I could just add tons of direct damage spells and my opponents would be forced to nuke each other. However, if I do that in Pentagram, the wrong opponents my die first and someone else wins. That's why I started off with non-lethal spells. Maybe you have good ideas how to improve that. EDIT: Don't worry about the Pentagram part, it's too complicatedNOTE: Please read the "how to play" section before suggesting cards. It's important to know how Hive Mind actually works!
Hive Mind Enchantment, 5U (6)"Whenever a player casts an instant or sorcery spell, each other player copies that spell. Each of those players may choose new targets for his or her copy." 10/1/2009: Hive Mind's effect is mandatory. Each other player must copy the spell whether they want to or not. 10/1/2009: Hive Mind will copy any instant or sorcery spell, not just one with targets. 10/1/2009: If a player casts an instant or sorcery spell, Hive Mind's ability triggers and is put on the stack on top of that spell. Hive Mind's ability will resolve first. When it does, it creates a number of copies of that spell equal to the number of players in the game minus one. First the player whose turn it is (or, if that's the player who cast the original spell, the player to that player's left) puts his or her copy on the stack, choosing new targets for it if he or she likes. Then each other player in turn order does the same. The last copy put on the stack will be the first one that resolves. (Note that the very last thing to happen is that the original spell resolves.) 10/1/2009: The copies that Hive Mind's ability creates are created on the stack, so they're not "cast." Abilities that trigger when a player casts a spell (like Hive Mind's ability itself) won't trigger. 10/1/2009: Each copy will have the same targets as the spell it's copying unless its controller chooses new ones. That player may change any number of the targets, including all of them or none of them. If, for one of the targets, the player can't choose a new legal target, then it remains unchanged (even if the current target is illegal). 10/1/2009: If the spell that's copied is modal (that is, it says "Choose one --" or the like), the copy will have the same mode. A player can't choose a different one. 10/1/2009: If the spell that's copied has an X whose value was determined as it was cast (like Earthquake does), the copy has the same value of X. 10/1/2009: A copy's controller can't choose to pay any additional costs for the copy. However, effects based on any additional costs that were paid for the original spell are copied as though those same costs were paid for the copy too. 10/1/2009: If a copy says that it affects "you," it affects the controller of the copy, not the controller of the original spell. Similarly, if a copy says that it affects an "opponent," it affects an opponent of the copy's controller, not an opponent of the
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Tricky tricky. One neat Hive Mind deck I seen was putting in stuff like Pact cards. Summoner's Pact, for example. Then forcing your opponent to play the same spell, and them having to pay 2 green 2 colorless during their upkeep, of they lost the game. http://www.mtgvault.com/planestalker/decks/hive-mind-pact-deck/Posted the link, even though i know you are very original and do not like to copy decks. Indeed, you even point out that people that copy are what is wrong with Magic Vault. Just posted it because I enjoyed the Interaction with the Pacts and Hive Mind. But it has been done so many damn times. So, not original at all. IF going Winterbane Orb...you could try to get away with playing burn. Might consider bounce/counter spells to protect the Orb.Hive Mind...and all of your black cards in your sideboard, so that means you are going for black (and blue). So, what about this idea: Run black creatures...then instant sorcery cards like Reckless Spite. Or Terror. Dead Ringers. Festergloom. Wicked Pact. So...you have all black creatures, all of your opponent's have to copy spells like Reckless Sprite and Festergloom. They end up killing their own creatures while doing nothing to your creatures. And for blue cards...Hive Mind...draw spells, probably. Speeds the game up, for everyone, which is fun and interesting. A search engine for Hive Mind is recommended. Since you love crazy cards, friend, Elephant Grass. That damned nasty upkeep! Yuck. However, with you and your opponent (even if he does it against his will) nuking all nonblack creatures, Elephant Grass makes it to where all the surviving creatures on the board (black creatures that Festergloom/terror/wicked pact did not kill off) can not attack you. In other words, nuke the board of all creatures except black creatures. Then play Elephant Grass and the black creatures can't attack. Anyways...good luck. I owe you a lot. Sound advice...some of which has got me decks with a lot of likes. I feel so dumb offering advice to you, and that is why i do not do it more often. Enjoy!
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Yes, I've seen that Hive Mind - Pact - Deck, actually that's why I was inspired to do a Hive Mind deck, too. However, I wanted to go a different path, besides, I traded away all my Pacts.I WILL go witch Witchbane Orb, that's the premise of the deck. My concern with burn is the format we play with it we are 5 people, Pentagram. You win, if the opposing 2 players are dead (no matter WHO kille them). Look at the back of a Magic card and imagine each of the coloured dots is a player. Black wins if White and Green are dead. Now, if I am Black, have Hive Mind and Orb in play and then cast a Fireball for 6 on Green, both White and Blue might target Red with their Fireballs and kill Red. If I killed Green with my Fireball, both Red and Green would be dead - and that means Blue wins. That's why I think direct damage spells are too dangerous. I would need a way to keep my flanks alive but that isn't an easy task since if I play a heal spell like Reward the Faithful, my opponents can heal their flanks as well.I won't use draw spells if they give my opponents cards, too. It's too dangerous - they also draw creatures for example. But I could use draw in the form of tomes (like Jayemdea Tome - just need to find something better fitting). Elephant Grass ... usually played woth Darkest Hour. But if I nuke creatures, why should I leave out black creatures just to stop them with Elephant Grass? I'll probably go with something like Pyroclasm. WIth Hive Mind out that's 10 damage to each creature for 2 mana and players are unscathed.
Wait a sec ... in pentagram, you can block in passing, right? Like if you attack an opponent, a flank can block?
No. Actually the opposite is true: You can attack your flanks. Maybe don't call them "flanks" - Pentagram plays like any other game, the only difference is the win condition. The guys left and right of you are still your opponents by any definition, you can attack them, you can Duress them etc.EDIT:Lol, Duress is actually a card I might add :)
What about True-Name Nemesis?
If i had any, they would be a good addition, that's for sure.
On second thought, no, Nemesis would only work in 1-on-1, this is for multiplayer.
Hmm .... you certainly plan on having a ton of spells flying around. That will make the games highly interesting, but make targeting specific opponents difficult. The way I see it you have 2 options: bring spells to bear that aim to crush the souls of specific colors (like conversion and gloom) or rely on the abilities of creatures to ensure that you get more spells.On the bright side, hive mind rely screws with your opponent's game plan. Just remember that they have the same problems as you ... except they didn't plan on having them. :)You are far more knowledgeable about color-hate. Heck, Jessie has a whole challenge. I'm not really sure which color you are playing as, so this I leave up to you.As for annoying creature abilities that might give you an edge in the arcane melee ... this I can really help out with. Spellkite, Echo Mage (even at level 2) , dual casting, Kiora (glass-spinner), etc.Finally, spells. You know that instants and sorceries become ridiculous, so turn to enchantments. Popping a curse of bloodletting on whomever needs to die, for example.Basically, think of hive mind like a massive "join forces" mechanic. You just want to gain more than your opponents, but make sure your flanks don't lag behind.
But ... Conversion and Gloom are enchantments!? I need sorceries and instants ... ... but okay, so, I could cast something like Jovial Evil and if there is a poor guy running a white weenie deck, he will get hit at least 2 times ... the idea is not bad!Spellskite will be considered if I'll have more creatures - right now it looks like it isn't needed.
You can have as many instants as you want (fork would be hilarious). Doesn't black have a plethora of color-specific killers like deathmark?
makes me think of an idea for a color challenge i might get a regular 5 player game going soon and it might be interesting to make everyone use a different color and for the vault it might be interesting to build the best vintage format decks of all 5 colors and do a tournament that reminds me did Jessie ever finish his creature challenge? if he did who won?
Problem is: Since you know that your deck would face off against other mono-coloured decks, they would run rampant with color-hosers.
Like ... circles of protection. On the other hand Puschkin, this problem might be mitigated by the pentagram variation. That way, each player has 2 opponents, and 2 allies.
expensive enchantment but it will work for heavy creature decks: Dismiss into dream.with cyclonic rift it goes "poof" to all creatures for ever
'overload' abillities is also something to look at.
Hm ... yeah, that would work! You could overload a spell, but all your opponent's copies would be regular!Wait ... no. Hive mind actually honors modal casting and variable costs. Wow, that's neat!
It is a very complicated card, to me. The best i could come up with, posted above, would be to run blue draw spells and black creatures.Then make sure Hive Mind is out THEN start casting Dead Ringers, Festergloom, Reckless Sprite, Wicked Pact.Now your opponent has to copy those spells. Since all of your creatures are black, they stay safe! But your opponent is being forced to play Dead Ringers on their own creatures. I could see the expression of someone's face if he has 2 green creatures in play, and is forced to play Dead Ringers on himself.
But ... that strategy still can't save your friends! And really, you forgot doom blade? :)
NO friends in multiplayer!!!My friends always forced 2 rules with Multiplayer:1) You only attack either left to right or right to left (the direction would be picked before the game started).AND/OR2) You can not attack the same player twice in a row (if one person just attacked him, you can not turn around and attack him again).Those were our made up rules that we played by.Issue was...we would have like 5 people play...AND EVERY GAME, it would be an issue of 4 people teaming up against the strongest person. They would kill him. THEN the strongest 3 people would go against the next strongest person...and it would be repeated until the weakest deck/person would end up winning.That is where "Don't make yourself look like a threat" comes into play.
Dude ... try the pentagram method.ON the back of a magic card, there is that pentagram symbol. Each color fights the two opposing colors, but supports the two adjacent colors. Neat, huh?Oh, and if you attack one of your opponents, the adjacent player "between" you can choose to block some of your creatures in passing, so it's really nice if you can help them survive.
Never played that way. Sounds very interesting!
And in response to your unhinged deck ... hell yes. Mana Screw, I love you so much.Hey Look I'm R&D (Randy and Del, the first married workers at magic ... you should show this to your wife :) )
Erm, Jessie, did you read the description and comments? I explained in detail how Pentagram works and that we always play Pentagram. This is crucial for this deck because it actually makes things complicated. About overload:As I understand it, if I pay for overload, the copies will have overload, too. This ... means ... KABOOOM! I mean ... a simple Electrickery will act like a Wrath of God, dealing 20 damage to each creature in a Pentagram game - for 3 mana! Unfortunately, there is no other overload spell that would be useful in this. But if I want to explode some brains, I could include Counterflux, just for the lols :)
Yes, i did. Go back and look at your response to my first comment...you told me my idea would not work because of the Pentagram style of play.I was just speaking in general...in trying to make a Hive Mind deck...that is what I seen that I would do...blue draw spells and black creatures...then instant/sorcery cards that nuked non-black creatures.Yes, it would not work with this deck/pentagram style of play. Sorry for the misunderstanding :)
But your response "Never played that way.Sounds very interesting! "Sounded as if you mentally skipped that^^Anyway, we stopped playing free-for-alls a long time ago specifically because it always means players ganing up on the current top dog which translates into everybody avoiding being the top dog which in turn means everybody plays defensively, and combo-ish. And that translates into boring games.If you are 5 players, Pentagram and French Emperor (or "Peasant Rebellion" how we call it) are the best formats, by far.
I haven't played multiplayer (unless you include me, my friend, and his younger brother = 3 people, maybe 2 or 3 games last year) in 12 years. Not even sure they had French Emperor or Pentagram back then. But yes, the Pentagram style and Hive Mind makes it damn hard.
Maybe I should save this deck for free-for-all games when I play with somebody else. This would save us a lot of headaches ... :P
I very much agree.
It might make a few enemies, though. :)
I simply hate the mana cost for Hive. That can be gotten around, though.Question, if you have Copy Enchantment and cast it on/at Hive Mind....must your opponent recast your spell twice?
Yes (10 characters)
i usually play with 2-3 other people sometimes more that's why i went more towards edh edh is a lot more random but i still get the board hate and win most of the time lol but ive played a lot longer then my group and have a way better collection. i should try to lose once in awhile to keep them interested but its just not my style but i also don't want to downgrade my decks to make them nicer
You could play that variant of Duel of the Planeswalkers where one guy plays against 3. That way they can legally gang up on you.You could also offer them to play your decks from time to time. You could build 4 decks that are specifically made to be played against each other.
i have let the worst player of our group use 1 of my decks once and he managed to pull the combo i wanted on the opening hand and id never had it lol dragon arch and progenitus with land/ land ramp he played progenitus on turn 4 or 5 and that was game
have you ever looked at my vamp edh? it started out as mono black with anowon as commander but recently splashed red with Olivia as commander i have the black deck still on my page as it was when i split it for adding red and the b/r version that's on there is what i run except my group will let you run banned edh cards so i picked up a griselbrand to throw in there lol
Probably not unless you asked me to because I am not into EDH.
since it seem you play multiplayer a lot maybe you should get your group to try edh it makes for interesting games
2 am here and its my b day today yet i still gotta work so im off would love to see 1 of my decks hit the hot pg for my b day
I do not play EDH either...but it does sound like it fits your (Puschkin)philosophy on using all cards/not recycling cards out between games/etc...and finding new and interesting ways of using cards. I tried making 2, and it freaking difficult, in my opinion! Playing only 1 copy of cards...ugh!!!!
I already liked your newest deck, dork. Good luck! Working on birthday blows, by the way!
lmao cant hurt to try
But that's precisely why I don't play EDH: Basically, my decks were like EDH (minus the commander rules) even before EDH existed. They key here being that I didn't need any rules to force myself to play interesting decks. Then EDH caught on and gained in popularity because it's more casual. Wizards prints the Commander sets and players are like "Hey, THIS is fun, look at those cards, never played with them before but they are so much fun!" while I am like "Meh, those are staples in my decks for years. And I always told you to play more casual and less competitive but it needs Wizards to print a set to convince you?"All of that sounds like just being spiteful as if I am the hipster of Magic. However, the problem with this is that most players didn't really learn any lesson out of it. They did what they always do: Take this new format and pimp the shit out of it! Meanwhile, EDH decks are so streamlined that they are better than most regular decks and the only way to beat them is to hit them early and fast. But if you do that, they complain "hey, this is just an EDH deck, let me get some mana rolling first".But not only that, they stuff their EDH decks with the new staples of this format. To such a degree that some EDH decks are LESS innovative than regular 60-card-decks! Among those staples are:* tons of tutors (which beats the idea of Highlander)* tons of board sweepers (which drag down games to a grind)* tons of mana acceleration (which allows the big guns)* tons of gamebreakers (the unfun kind)You may have a [legend] deck but the vast majority of your deck consist of staples like Bribery, Maze of Ith etc.Again, this may not be an isssue with less experienced players, but the poeple I play with and the local group of EDH enthusiasts are all of 30+ years old and veterans to Magic with huge collections. Playing EDH with them means games of 3+ hours length where the first turns everyone is busy mana ramping (nobody plays fast decks because they can't get the job done early enough since EDH players have more life) and where it doesn't really matter what you do the first hour or two because everything gets destroyed, exiled, bounced and stolen anyway. Somebody tries to make a move and the others prevent that. This goes on forever until everyone is in topdeck mode and in the end, the winner is determined by the luck of the draw.So, my stance is:Either the players "get" what casual is about or they don't. If they don't get it, the no format will be able to change that. Every format can be broken and that's what these people do. But if you understand what "casual" means and that Magic is (or should be) a social game ... then you don't NEED a format to restrict you.BTW, that's also my resoning for religion: I don't need a religion to tell me that killing people is bad, I can figure that out myself, thank you. Vice versa, if it needs a religion and the threat to rot in hell to keep you back from committing crimes and being an ugly person, then think what that says about you.
my edh decks are generally fast my vamps run a flying beatdown that grows the way vamps do my elf edh runs ezuri so it mana ramps to multiple overruns sliver edh im using overlord as commander atm so I can tutor for any sliver I need or can grab the changling that will let me steal my opponents creatures or my goblin edh with krenko can be really nasty/fast I win a lot but I think it encourages my opponents to find ways to beat me they did do a mono black edh with ob nixilis unshackled to shutdown my slivers sliver edh doesn't work if you cant deck search my only chance is to kill ob nixilis player 1st
Puschkin, I understand that you have issues with EDH, and that's fine. In fact, I agree. But I have to disagree that the format is to blame. True, the format is restrictive, but it is amplified by the mindsets of individuals. If these hyper-competitive players played in any other format, the result would be the same. The only difference is that the rules of EDH make it even more pronounced.You are correct in stating that morality is independent of religion; natural law stems from the fact that all humans have free will and reason, not from religion. Anyone with free will and reason has, at the least, basic knowledge of the natural law. Killing is wrong; anyone with reason is able to see that, and doesn't need to be told that. The UN, a secular organization, agrees. It's in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and the precedent was set in the Nuremburg trails. Natural law is part of all major religions (officially accepted by Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and all schools of Islamic Law), but it transcends them, and remains a part of virtually all legal systems. Basically, morality informs religion, not the otger way round. Morality tells us not to kill. From there, we must choose how to value life. That second step is where religion or philosophy comes in.Those who merely follow the rules out of fear of punishment never truly live out their lives or beliefs. These individuals will choose to pursue conformity no matter what holds power, be it government, majority opinion, law, religion, business, or merely the whims of a powerful individual. Their actions are not at the fault of what is followed. Invariably, these followers are shallow in their conviction and ignorant in their understanding, and bring a bad name to genuine followers. The saddest part - some people choose to live this way. Actually, what's even more sad is some individuals are coerced into following. They often don't admit when they transgress their "beliefs", but hide behind their religion or ideology with shallow justifications. Is organized religion the worst thing one can conform to? No, and I would argue it's one of the best. Conformity is the enemy, not religion.
Actually I didn't blame the format, I blamed the players. And I avoid those players by not playing EDH :)We tried EDH in our group one or two times with moderately pimped versions of those original commander decks and the resulting games were so boring that we abandoned EDH.
I totally avoid said players by not playing standard. It seems we think alike ... I recall you describing your method of trading; sell expensive standard cards that experience tells you won't keep that value in the long term, then buy those same cards post rotation. Could one ... make a mix of regular magic and EDH? Keep the commander, lose it's extra damage, but it's abilities trigger from the command zone IF it has been cast at least once, etc. Taking the best from both worlds would be awesome.
The best part about EDH is going Highlander - that is, if that doesn't mean playing thousands of tutors to get the same staples and powercards. You know my decks - usually I find more cards that fit my theme than I have deckspace for. Plus, I'd rather use the cards of my collection, even if they are second or third grade, than trading for more copies of first grade cards. That's why most of my decks look highlanderish with lots of 1-ofs.
There can be only one.XD
my edh group doesn't use the commander damage rule and we also don't have any banned cards in our group if you own it you can use it
Muhahahaha ... meekstone, anyone?
Cerebral Vortex, lol! Still can't do that in Pentagram ... damn, I should really drop the Pentagram requirement.
I have the answer. Turn 2. Liliana's Caress.Turn 5. Mind HiveTurn 6. Prosperity Turn 7. One with NothingThat would work, right? I mean...if you had enough mana ramp and disruption to buy you time for it to work...the combo is sound, right? Basically you would force your opponent to draw a lot of cards and then force him to discard them dealing damage via Liliana's Caress. The major issue is this (if the combo works): Your opponent is going to have 5 or more lands by the time you force him to draw the cards...meaning he will have the mana resources to play the cards against you. Especially if you have to wait a turn inbetween Prosperity and One with Nothing. Two small issues: Damage and Disruption. Unless you intend to force your opponent to draw 10 cards (20 points via Liliana's Caress) you need ways to cause damage to your opponent. That way it is less mana needed to deal the death blow with Caress. And if you have to run a lot of mana ramp you may lose ability to disrupt your opponent long enough to pull the combo off. I mean, to make your opponent draw 10 cards and then play One with Nothing you need 12 mana! Which is insane without mana ramp. Would start out like this3 Mind Hive3 Prosperity 3 One with Nothing3 Liliana's Caress22 landsThat is 34 cards. Suggestions: Instead of forcing your opponent to draw 10 cards at one time...play stuff like Howling Mine or Night's Whisper to make your opponent draw more cards? Maybe. All of this is assuming you are going to say that I need to watch what I put in the deck in case my opponent can use it to...that I may want to throw in useless cards. Another idea. Same idea but use cheap Blue draw spells. Safe. They draw cards and then boom you throw down a reverse One with Nothing. What about something like Breakthrough if we keep running with the idea. Sorta same idea as One with Nothing. You play Breakthrough and choose for X to be 0. That could be a second win con with Caress. Anyways, yeah, I try to keep looking over your decks. Later.
Yeahno.You don't need Prosperity and One with Nothing if you could simply Wheel of Fortune/Windfall/Dark Deal instead. And on the risk of sounding snobish, Howling Mine/Prosperity/Draw-7s/Underworld Dreams/Megrim decks have been around for an eternity and are boring and multiplayer-destroying for an equally long time. Somehow this particular deck is like a phase every teenager has to go through ... don't want to go that way.This deck is more of a fun project. The goal is have Hive Mind and Witchbane Orb in play and then watch the opponents killing themselves/each other with targetted spells that they are forced to cast but can't target ME with. I don't want to win, I just want to have some fun and mess around with my buddies. I should update the description.
Added Volcanic Offering ...