Stonewalkers

by Runecloud1 on 15 March 2019

Main Deck (60 cards)

Sideboard (15 cards)

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Deck Description

U/W Stonewalkers in Legacy isn't as good right now, due to the Snoko/Summer's Veil Menace...But I'll keep trying. Made some changes that hopefully help fight it, mostly main deck lands and 1 spell addition.

Main Deck:

Out:

All Basics: Converted Basics to Snow-Basics. Small edge gained in the mind/bluffing game. Let 'em think I'm a different deck for a bit.

1 Island:
Deck flooded a lot at 22 lands. And room was needed for Unexpectedly Absent. 21 lands is still enough to cast Teferi, Hero of Dominaria and B-Skull when needed. Still have 4 basic Islands, which is standard U/W Stoneblade tech. Don't think there will be that much of a difference.

3 Wasteland:
IDK about this one. Losing major % points against Land-based strategies, and pressuring Land-bases in Legacy is important!
But Snow-Basics are running around like crazy, which decreases viable targets. Wasteland needs to be a 3 of, as you do not see enough of it as a 1 or 2 of. But 3 of Wasteland takes up a lot of room. And room was needed for utility lands that should help with the grind. We'll see what happens.

In:

1 Unexpectedly Absent:
An experiment. Most likely better off as another Council's Judgement/Spell Pierce/Counterspell/Force of Negation, as it requires set up to use properly (In response to your fetch, Absent that). Can't be countered by Summer's Veil/Non-Blue counter spells, which is a plus. Instant speed token kill. And worse case, stalls for 1-3 turns, depending.

1 Mystic Sanctuary:
Tutorable and Gives every Instant/Sorcery in my 75 an additional use, at the cost of a Fixed Draw. Should rarely come into play tapped. Strongest utility land I've added, by far. Best argument to not play Wasteland, IMO.

1 Academy Ruins:
For the grindy long games, were equipment are being destroyed left and right. No real utility artifacts to recur, just here to recur the B-Skull/Swords/Jitte and occasionally, the Arcane Spyglass. We'll see if this is the right call or not, but if the meta is about Grinding, then let's gear towards grinding.


Watch list:

Instants:

In:

Spell Pierce/Counterspell/Force of Negation: Deck feels like it wants more Counterspells, currently.
Force of Negation is strongest contender, as it is mostly free.
Spell Pierce would be a good runner up, as 1 Mana counter most things in most situations is very strong.
Counterspell would be good because True Name/creatures are still a thing, and catching everything is fantastic, but 2 cmc in Legacy is a lot. But space concerns is a thing, and Counters don't help when the spell has resolved!


Planeswalkers:

Out:

Teferi, Hero of Dominaria:
Takes over games when he lands, but is 5 mana. Solves a lot of problems by tucking them, and draws cards! But, again, 5 mana, and is he worth it over Teferi, Time Raveler?
And he's vulnerable to Summer's Veil (Both Tefaris are, really--Hero is more vulnerable, because their more likely to have mana open on T5 for the Summers Veil and more likely to have the Summers Veil)
I've had fun, so far. But we'll see if it stays that way.

Dovin, Grand Arbiter:
The flying thopters and 1 life gain have been way better in Legacy than anywhere else I have played this card. The utility and relevance has me questioning if I want more of him. 3 CMC and pitchable to Force are very strong selling points. And a flying Thopter carrying a B-Skull/Sword in the air has won me more than enough games. Reminds me of playing Esper Stoneblade and having Lingering Souls
But he is vulnerable to Bolt/Red Elemental Blast/Pyroblast/Abrupt Decay. Time will tell if he is good enough or not, but currently, I see him as a very strong addition.


In:

Teferi, Time Raveler:
Warning: Very long break down incoming!
Summary and TLDR is at bottom.

Very good. I even own a playset, yet I don't play them. I respect the Static Ability--That and the 3 CMC is where the real power of that card is at.

The +1:
I have a hard time justifying the +1 in a deck that runs 7 Sorceries (6 main +1 sideboard). For me, it basically reads: +1 Suspend Repulse 3-4 turns.
I can think of great schemes and blowouts regarding Ponder/Council's Judgement/Supreme Verdict, but when I build decks, I always trend towards the average. Average says his +1 won't do much.

The -3 Bounce and Draw:
Is really, really good. Hit recurs a Snappys/Stoneblades on my side, resets B-Skulls on a blank board, and stalls whatever it is my opponent is doing for a 1-2 turns. But I can only use it once ever 4-5 turns.
Play sequence is usually:
Turn 1: Play Tefari, bounce something, draw a card. Tefari Loyalty: 1
Turn 2: Plus, do nothing/maybe EoT cast Ponder/Council's Judgement. Tefari Loyalty: 2
Turn 3: Plus, do nothing/maybe EoT cast Ponder/Council's Judgment. Tefari Loyalty:3
Turn 4: Ditch Tefari: Bounce and draw, and he goes away. Or plus, and repeat above
Turn 5: If Tefari is kept, Bounce something and draw or repeat above.

Static Ability:
Ah yes, the real power of the card. The Static Ability and the 3 CMC
Yes, effectively my Spells cannot be countered when he's out. And neither can they pull any Instant/Flash shenanigans.
But I don't know if that's enough in my shell. I don't know if just making my spells uncounterable, and not doing much else, is enough to turn games my way. I don't know if slowing the Opponents casting speed is enough. My current testing has come back with a 'No' when I play Teferi, Time Raveler.

When cast, he eats counterspells and leaves me wondering if Forcing to protect Tefari, Time Raveler is worth it (Assume T3) or if that would be a waste, as I'm better off saving the force for something that ends the game. T4/T5, the turns when I could protect with Spell Pierce/Counterspell, seem a little late to be playing Tefari--Especially T5.

The logical conclusion when playing against him is to keep playing cards and tax whatever answers your opponent has. That static ability makes him a must be killed threat, because the Opponent can now freely get away with shenanigans.

That means in order to get the best use of his static ability, I need have a threat out and be generating card advantage, so I can continually maintain the advantage from Tefari, Time Raveler's static ability.
Tefari doesn't do much himself in the card advantage department, Bouncing and Drawing 1 card every 4-5ish turns. And the Static ability doesn't end the game on it's own, just stalls it. So in order for my shell to get the best/average use of the Static ability, I need to have a separate threat out that pressures their resources AND have some form card advantage that digs me through the deck and gives me answers to their answers/threats.
Just to have average usage of the Static Ability, I need a source of real card advantage, not virtual. And again, he only generates 1 extra card every 4-5 turns

In Counting, to make average use of Tefari,Time Raveler's static ability in this shell, I need:
Tefari+Card Advantage Engine+Threat.

And that's the chief issue I have with Tefari, Time Raveler and the Static Ability. For 3 Mana, it takes a decent amount to support and protect, and can't end the game on it's own.

Overall:
So with his +1 on average doing very little for me, and his Bounce and Draw, on average, only being used once, maybe twice a game when I play him, I am forced to ask: Is the static ability worth the card slot?
My answer, with respect to his strength, has been no. He's easier to kill than an enchantment, and as mentioned w/Tefari, Hero of Dominaria above, vulnerable to Veil of Summer.

Compared to other Walkers currently played:

Jace, Mind Sculptor: Best walker of all time, hard bar to pass. But even in the worse case, I need to stall, Jace beats him most of the time...As Jace can bounce a creature 3 times before going away. Tefari has the advantage of bouncing artifacts/enchantments/creatures, but can only do so 1/4ish turns. Jace draws more cards, and Jace's plus can fix draws on either side. Tefari's plus doesn't do much for my deck, and requires additional cards to be optimal.

Gideon, Ally of Zendikar: Gideon says Giddy up and ends games. Even just making 2/2s, Gideon protects himself better than Tefari. And Gideon is not vulnerable to Red Elemental Blast/Abrupt Decay. Tefari, being lower casting cost, is easier to cast and protect when casting that Gideon, but that's about it.

Tefari, Hero of Dominaria: One of the places the Tefari's could switch, but as mentioned abobve, I like Hero better because he draws more cards and can (somewhat) answer more problems. And left to his own devices, Hero will win the game.

Dovin, Grand Arbiter: Most likely where I would switch. Tefari, Time Raveler is better at answering the opponent, but that's about it. Dovin can end the game in a hurry, if left to his own devices. And provides flying blockers for most situations. They both share the same weaknesses, with the caveat that Tefari, Time Raveler cannot be bolted if he is plussed right off the bat.


Using Quadrant theory:

Ahead:
Locks the game in my favor, keeps opponent from playing, and keeps me winning. Counterpoint: If I am winning/ahead, with this shell, I should have enough resources to defend my win. He is on average, best when the scales are just tipping in my favor.

Behind:
Can bounce one thing and fog a swing. Replaces himself in doing so. Protects the spell that I would need to stabilize by existing/eating a counterspell.
Counterpoint: Gets way worse the fewer cards I have in hand, and in most situations, cannot turn a game around by himself--other cards are needed.

Board Stalled:
Can Bounce and Draw something to turn the game around. Makes other spells uncounterable, therefore helping tip the balance in my favor. Eats a counterspell, making it easy to cast next thing. Makes opponent's spells easier to counter. Counterpoint: Beyond Bounce and Draw, doesn't do much by himself. If board is not significantly changed by him, he will do very little in actually changing it.

No Board:
.Makes spells uncounterable, allowing better set ups for board advancement. Eats counterspells, making it easier for the next spell. Makes countering/answering opponents spells easier.
Counterpoint: +1 into oblivion if nothing is out. Not many Sorceries to take advantage of him. Doesn't generate actual card advantage, just virtual.

Summary:
He is a fantastic 3 CMC support card. He needs other things in play to be average/most effective. He is a virtual card advantage engine, but the deck (and U/W Stoneblade, generally) is starved for actual card advantage. He doesn't close games on his own, just makes it harder for the opponent to close a game/stop me from closing the game.
And I honestly don't know if it's worth the opportunity cost of a slot in the 75?


TLDR:
Idk if my deck shell fits him, and I've had problems with him locking the opponent out of the game for a 1-3 turns, but then they turn it around because beyond the initial bounce, he does little to change the board state.
Very strong card, does a lot on face value, but synergized with the deck, doesn't seem to pull enough weight to currently justify inclusion. The need for an additional threat/card advantage next to him/in hand when he in play is the current reason why I don't play him.

My chief concern is that it does 1 thing really, really well, but cannot end the game on it's own--Almost every other card in the deck can close the game on it's own. Could be a me problem, but I'm keeping notes.

Narset, Parter of Veils:
Fantastic card that kills extra draws, like Jaces and Brainstorms. Again, Teferi, Time Raveler problem: Doesn't pass my bar of needing to do more than 1 thing, even if it does that 1 thing really, really well. She does 'draw/selects' 2, but seems very easy to kill for the investment. Again, great support card, but I need ways to end the game once I've gained control.

Vendillion Clique:
Karakas+Clique=Fun! But Clique is super easy to kill, True Name is the better 3 drop, and the disruption doesn't seem worth the opportunity cost. Great card, but Legacy is a format of high impact, and I don't think Clique generates enough impact now. Always on my radar

Venser, Shaper Savant:
See Clique above, but now with the change of him being 4 Mana.



Mana Base:
I don't own Prismatic Veils, so I can't play them. Would drastically make the Mana base better, however.

Everything Else:
Fairly Standard U/W Stoneblade Package, nothing really to change.


Sideboard:

In/Out: No Changes

Watch list:

Out:
Back to Basics:
With so many Snow-Basics running around, this card might be past it's prime. We'll see, but right now it's in here as tech against Land decks and that's really about it. Currently I consider it a flex slot

Sword of Steel and Sinew:
So many Walkers running around, this has been amazing. If meta shifts, it'll come out, but right now, there are enough Walkers and Artifacts to warrant inclusion. Is currently the only 'Real' Flex slot in the sideboard.

Celestial Purge:
Um, Idk what this is for anymore? Meta doesn't lean red/black, but another Disenchant doesn't seem worth it. It's just a good catch all for Reanimator/Red Prison/B/x/x or R/x/x decks, but other than that, isn't as much of a 'silver bullet' as other cards in sideboard

In:
Ashiok, Dream Render:
Graveyard hate, pitches to force, and stops tutoring/fetching! Sign me up! Just don't know if the limited use graveyard hate, that is easy to play around, is worth it over Rest in Peace. Also, easier to kill than Rest in Peace

Nahiri, the Lithomancer:
Always on my radar. She's really good for the deck, good at ending games, and good at grinding. Recurring Equipment/Putting them into play from the hand is real good. But is 5 mana, and only makes 1/1s that can't fly.

Not Concerned:
Everything Else :
Standard Stoneblade package, and doesn't need to be removed. Currently.

Deck Tags

  • Legacy
  • Stoneblade
  • Azorius

Deck at a Glance

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Mana Curve

Mana Symbol Occurrence

2034000

Deck Format


Legacy

NOTE: Set by owner when deck was made.

Card Legality

  • Not Legal in Standard
  • Not Legal in Modern
  • Not Legal in Vintage
  • Legal in Legacy

Deck discussion for Stonewalkers

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