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I'm frankly very much unsure how I feel about running Thoughtseize as only a 2 of, but then again, I am also unsure about how wise it is to play 8-Rack these days, and most of all, I am unsure whether my adamant insistence on playing 8-Rack can be classified as healthy anymore.Anyhow, what's new? Castle Locthwain - More or less demands to be a 4 of as it shores up (more or less entirely) the passivity and luck-determined outcomes of many late-games. One life for one card (most of the time) is game-winning when you have the mana nad life to spare for it, and the cost of running Castle Locthwain when you don't need its ability is zero to none.Bloodchief's Thirst - Might just be a 'flavor of the month' kind of card, but it is great early game (obviously) and should you get all the way the incomprehensibly massive amount of lands that is 4, then it becomes phenomenal again, killing Jaces, Karns, and Thought-Knots.Cling to Dust - For one, there's always something to get rid of in modern, sometimes blandly (to shrink of goyf), sometimes orgasmically (in response to a snapcaster). It also gives us a use for our massive graveyard, and it gives us another resource we can draw on in the late-game.
One could argue that the gameplay oscillates between extremely skillful and extremely random due to the fact that missing 1-2 damage will often cost you the game, as will miss-sequencing your discard spells, and the fact that games that involve prolonged periods of empty boards and empty hands lend themselves quite well to being decided by draw luck. This version (not that there is anything revolutionary about what I've built here) of the deck attempts to fix some of the chance-related issues 8-rack historically suffered from, an approach that is especially reflected in the sideboard.
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NOTE: Set by owner when deck was made.
Here's my take on the theme.You will be caught between the battle between managreed and bloodmoon/magusThe mana greedy will use modal lands to become more resistant towards ponza type decks, which is something you don't want to happen. You could adapt by going with modal lands yourself, gaining more aggro, but then you will be hit by moons.As a rule, keep 12-14 basic swamps to avoid the moon.I've had my focus on reshuffling lately, and have made a post about how people have forgotten reshuffling as a mechanic. Your strategy is a longterm one, so you'd like to gain usefull cards rather than lands. If you use about two dread, every time you discard one to liliana, you get back all of your destruction minus your permanents in play, increasing the speed of your deck goal.Your versions with lasciel and the bridge might work better with both liliana and oona's prowler. In my own mill I've used the prowler plenty of times to wall up against the fastest aggro by going 0 hand at turn 3. From there, it's all about the slow game. This also works well with the concept of dread as a recycler. Faerie macabre will also add to the bridge tech and fight other peoples reshufflers like trons emrakul.On the topic of your opponents graveyard you seem to have overlooked bojuka bog.I'm also a huge fan of two cards that might help you.Drown in Sorrow which fights weenie, but is never a dead card as it can scry, and so adds to your overall card quality advantage.Doomfall is pretty diverse, it fights combo, and it fights aggro. I usually strive to pack 2 maindeck. It has the added advantage of being able to deal well with boogles and infect and so fits in with liliana and pox.
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As per manabases and bloodmoons: For one, I need double black at most, for another, if I surmise that winning a particular game depends on resolving a Liliana (having double black) I can just make them discard the moon.Do you actually mean the card Drad? This deck discards and sacs its own lands, how would dread ever be resolved? And as for making use of its shuffle trigger, what in the hell for? Raven's crime means lands aren't dead draws, reshuffling would likely keep the Spell - Land ratio in the deck the same as the graveyard will (at most times) have a bunch of lands in it, and Dread is a dead draw - I'd rather discard something with madness or flashback or a Nether Spirit. Plus Cling to Dust seems to me a much more valuable asset than does Dread, same with Nether Spirit.Haha, a pox addict meets a mill addict, what's with you and shuffle-gy-into-library triggers xD Bridge is good indeed, not worth playing horrible (extremely situational / anti-synergistic) cards but quite good. What I wanna do here is explore (albeit tentatively) new ground. Value is easy to come by in modern these days and balls to the wall turbo discard doesn't work great anymore.Bojuka's entering tapped is too high a cost in this deck.Drown in Sorrow seems like a more restricted version of Bontu'sDoomfall... Might be worth testing, but back when it came out the forums and FB groups were rife with people who tested it and came back disappointed.
I play a lot of testdecks to boost my own mill skills, and that includes pox/8-rack, so I know the deck well.Suggesting dread (yes, the reshuflable bee) comes from having played recently with eldrazi reshufflers in my prison designs. (Search for the decktag: wdm prison) Playing with decks that frequently discarded an emrakul in order to draw it or to avoid mill death, meant that I also had an opportunity to track how often I drew into a valuable reshuffled card, and the conclusion is, quite frequent.Since you use removal, and among that, uses pox, you would get to play pox a lot more. You would get lands back to either play or use with ravens crime. You would get liliana back and basically everything you needed.I usually base my output on experiences.The suggestion of dread was actually based on you having relic of progenitus in your maindeck. If you play pox, you will have to face the fact that a hell of a lot of decks are using cards with the escape mechanic.Having relic mainboard would allow you to create quality control by removing cards you don't use which would strengthen the reshuffle theme. Having played pox, I have experienced many games where the opponent loses all lands while you amass a lot of them.Since dread gets reshuffled over and over you will eventually be able to play it. While your opponent has a limited number of lands, you have a virtually unlimited amount of them because you can keep on reshuffling them.Essentially you could cut out your racks as a kill and just go with dread if it wasn't for the time limit during play.
Given 8 racks and well... 1 spirit, plus 4 manlands, the deck plans to win or lose aeons before multiple Dread reshuffles can take place and before milling is anyone's concern. That there is value in your suggestions is undeniable, but the value is not enough to act upon any of them. I'll build a statue in your honor if some day math proves you're right about Dread, until then I can't see how running a card that does not further the deck's gameplan in the least is a good idea.Yeah, 2 Cling to Dust are in here to help against escape cards (among other things), the sideboard choice of 4 Leyline is something that can be easily swapped for Surgicals and Spellbombs if decks like Dredge are of less concern than are say 4C Uro decks.Limited though my opponent's lands may be, and unlimited though Dread might make mine, the deck plans to win through damage, not resource denial. Though it is changing a lot these days and may eventually have enough cards to play more like its big legacy cousin.
You should find someone who plays oldschool magic and has a deck with timetwister and wheel of fortune.The oldschool format hasn't forgotten the power of reshuffling their deck.I thought it was a timeless part of the game until some months ago where I discovered that modern players have forgotten the mechanic.It's why so few get the idea of it's power.It's simply slipped the conscious of people.Maybe you could read up on attrition decks ?Pox is an attrition deck. The role of nether spirit in it plays exactly into the mechanic of reshuffling.But the math of it won't come from me, I suck at math.Plenty of decks used reshuffling back in 2018.I based my whole prison series slightly upon the mechanic, but have one deck which focuses intensely on it.If you search for the decktag: wdm prisonClick on the deck named RW reshuffler prison and proxy it for a smart friend and then play your pox against him, you should be able to see the power of it quite clearly.
I've never seen a single deck use this in modern outside of SB techs to beat mill as well as fringe gaea's blessing decks. I'd assume the reason for this is that the cost of running a crap card is higher than the benefit of the reshuffle effect. And Wheel of Fortune and Timetwister are almost indescribably more powerful than Dread. If someone does the math, I'll be convinced, until then I'll trust the playerbase hivemind conclusion.
Well, I've gone to the great web for the answers, and the answer was that the phrase "recursion" has shifted from meaning repeatedly getting something back from the graveyard into being an action caused several times.The player hivemind has concluded that kiki-jikki + restoration angel is recursion.Older players think of recursion as stemming from cards like recurring nightmare.A change in magic lingo apparently killed of the concept of the mechanic.Ironically edh players are experiencing lots of old style recursion decks and are complaining that there isn't enough graveyard hatred in the format to stop it.So perhaps one day, an EDH player will turn to modern and restart a recursion craze.
While I agree that recursion should refer to Gravecrawlers and Recurring Nightmares, arguing that a change in nomenclature killed a mechanic is nothing short of asinine. If something is good, if it works, if it wins people will keep doing it, irrespective of whether it's called recursion, reshuffling, or if there is no agreed upon terminology.Furthermore, would you say that both Dread's trigger and the use of Recurring Nightmare fall under recursion? Because that seems unhelpful, reshuffling seems to me the best word to refer to Dread-like triggers.
I looked up the definition of recursion :)"A combination that allows you to replay cards from the graveyard, in a loop"Granted, dread is a slow loop, and a rather soft combo (it must be discarded), but I spent about half an hour searching for past articles on reshuffling as "methods of shuffling the deck"I think if I had to choose a category, I'd go with "anti attrition"The real interesting thing is that the "end of the mechanic" seems to coincide with a huge surge in commander players. Another theory might be that the meta reached a saturation of graveyard hatred enough to keep the use of the mechanic at bay. The dissatisfied recursion players then turned to commander in pure frustration.I remember when all blue decks played 1 trinket mage, 1 engineered explosives and one tolarian ruins.We see half recursive cards like lurrus and mishra's bauble most of the time.The best recent recursion I've seen is mystical sanctuary + cryptic command. Bounce the land, draw a card, then draw cryptic command. When it works it's powerfull, but this one is a glass jawed version.People used to have much more solid recursions. I got a 2018 fourcolored kiki-jikki testdeck with restoration angel and eternal witness and reveillark. It's backup upon backup upon backup and pretty hard to beat.