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After realizing it works with ball lightning I started looking for more with delayed stack response. Alot of these cards look like they wouldn't work, but they actually do. Check oracle text rulings. Most have "at the beginning of the endstep" meaning it is a delayed stack response. This deck is insanely fast and very deadly even without the sundial. THE WAY THIS WORKS: Mimic vat, and the creatures, and the extra turn spells I use have delayed triggered abilities which trigger once and only once at the beginning of the end step. Thus, you allow the delayed triggered abilities to go on the stack during the end step, then activate Sundial of the Infinite to exile those abilities and they wont trigger again. It also works to keep it from 'being exiled' after I unearth it. So even if I drop sundial later game I can unearth my stuff and make it stay.
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Please gimme some suggestions for cards that would fit well into this sundial deck. Considering some type of non-basic land such as teetering peaks, and a side-board would be nice.
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And maybe some way to grab a sundial quickly?
Pretty sure the only creature this works with is Ball Lightning, in this deck at least. The other 3 state at the end of the turn, not during the end step.
actually if you look up their oracle texts they all say "at the beginning of the end step" So it's all delayed stack. You just have to look up rulings on each creature. I promise they all work.
This deck is straight up cheating! LOL. Consider adding Fireblast for the win they dont see coming.
I do really like fireblast. Perhaps I'll replace the 2 Last chances with something since I already have 4 final fortune and they don't work unless I can kill them, or have a sundial. Idk if it will be fireblast though. And I'm going to add another mimic vat, they are insanely powerful in here. A war elemental or 2 would be great too.
plus I don't need sundial to keep them too.
Final fortune!..... and... naturalize? >_<
I know that it is deffinately a threat, but the benefits outweigh the risk in my opinion.
Can't decide if I like war elementals. They are better multi player. replacements?
Elemental Mastery looks sweet. Very cool if I can get it on a ball lightning or something with a sundial. But then its a 3 card combo. opinions?
War Elemental sucks, but I really like Elemental Mastery. Guess a lot depends on how you will be playing this deck. As in multi player, or a one on one. In a dual I would play Fireblast, but in multiplayer no good.
Yea, it is okay multiplayer so i dropped war elemental. I like the unsuspectingness of fireblast but it really isn't that great here. Just a simple assault strobe is ussually much more deadly. Adding 1 more land because the mana curve seems okay, but with mimic vat and sundial the mana curve is actually 4 for most effectiveness.
Out of the sample hands I drew this deck plays really slow! Thinking it would have to be a multiplayer match up. Though by turn 5 or 6 if your still alive this deck will crush.
Yea, just added more lands. And you're right. this is better multiplayer. It's really fun and pretty cheap though. Took Pandemonium out. Idk if that was a good move because with mimic vat and a ball lightning I can do insane damage, but if they play aggro it will often end up killing my stuff because mine have low defence. I guess its better in sideboard.
Sundial is such a confusing card. I got excited and made a elemental deck similar to this until I found out i was playing it wrong. I probably wont explain this exactly right but it is what i understand to be correct. The reason it will not work to save your creatures is because those creatures say "At the beginning of the end step, sacrifice (creature name)". Notice it says the end step and not the NEXT end step. This means that the card will trigger during any end step. You will be able to save it on your turn but will have to sacrifice it during the end step of your opponents turn and you can only activate sundial during your turn. So basically it should work with any card that says NEXT end step because those will only trigger during that specific end step. which you will prevent from happening. Likewise if it specifically names which end step it will trigger you may be able to prevent that particular end step. This applies to cards like Final Fortune and last chance. Things get more confusing when you look at unearth. I believe that it does work to keep unearth creatures alive, BUT not if the card also has a sacrifice trigger printed on it like Hellspark Elemental does. Similarly even though mimic vat does work with sundial to keep permanent copies in play you could not use that to mimic vat ball lightning because that card's sacrifice ability will trigger anyway. Angel's Trumpet = Not 100% certain but I believe it works because it only triggers during your end step Mimic Vat = Works as long as the creature doesn't sac its self for another reason other than vat Spark Elemental = Doesn't work, you will sac it during your opponents turn. Hell's Thunder = Doesn't work, you will sac it during your opponents turn. Hellspark Elemental = Doesn't work, you sac it during your opponents turn. (Not 100% about unearth) Ball Lightning = Doesn't work, you will sac it during your opponents turn. Final Fortune = Works, you can prevent the specified end step from happening and will not loose. Elemental Appeal = Works, the elemental token has trample and haste. Elemental appeal creates a delayed trigger to exile the token but you can clear that by preventing your end step. Stone Idol Trap = Works, the construct token has trample. You can prevent stone idols delayed trigger. Last Chance = Works, you can prevent the specified end step from happening and will not loose. Just to clarify if it says at the end of turn you can not prevent that with sundial because end of turn abilities happen during the clean up step when your turn is finished. You can not prevent your clean up step even if you prevent your end step. So no luck keeping a 14/1 kicked Elemental Appeal around but he will still stay as a 7/1. Hope that helps you and good luck with the deck. If you figure out any amazing builds please share it with me!
Well, I'm not so sure about that. The oracle text says. Sacrifice this creature at the beginning of THE end step. So I believe it is referring to the next end step. So it would be a delayed stack response only on your end step right?
I understand what you are saying and this card is super confusing still. However I am pretty certain that it must specify the end step and can not just say the end step. Here is a judge ruling from the Gatherer that says "If Sundial of the Infinite's ability is activated before the end step, any "at the beginning of the end step"-triggered abilities won't get the chance to trigger that turn because the end step is skipped. Those abilities will trigger at the beginning of the end step of the next turn. The same is true of abilities that trigger at the beginning of other phases or steps (except upkeep)." Also here is a large discussion on the MTGS forums that goes into it more. http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=335306 Just before Sundial came out wizards of the coast went through and changed the orcale text on a lot of cards and specified the end step on some and the NEXT end step on many cards. I am pretty sure this is to show which cards trigger every end step and which only trigger during 1 specific end step. Otherwise I would have expected them to change them all to the same wording.
Yes, it would happen on the Next endstep, which would be theirs if I skip mine, but I don't completely skip my endstep. Here is how it works. I go to my endstep, then as the sacrifice effect is on the stack I sundial removing it from the stack. I don't think it ever re-activates. It should only be put on the stack once.
Hi agnorak262, Sundial of the Infinite decks are so much fun. Not much wrong withthe deck except you can't have 2 assault strobes in the sideboard because that makes the total number of assault strobes 5 in the deck. Would appreciate your thoughts on my Sundial Reanimator Deck. See how I manage to do a turn 3 Nicolas Bolas and keep it in play with help from a Sundial of the Infinite. realdecks - black Ghoulcaller's Sundial Deck Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=258557