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Original challenge can be seen here:http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/aristocrat-format-challenge/Rules:1) Decks must contain 60 cards.2) Decks can have up to 2 rares. Of the two rares, each one must be unique. In other words, a deck can't have two copies of the same rare.3) Mythic rares are not allowed. Ever! Yes, that means no planeswalkers.4) Decks can also have up to 12 uncommons. Like the rares, the number of copies you can include of any particular uncommon is restricted. In this case, no more than three copies of any one uncommon are allowed.5) The rest of your deck is composed of commons, with the restriction that only 4 copies of up to three particular commons are allowed, with the rest of the deck's commons being limited to no more than 3 per unique common.6) Basic lands are used as normal, with no particular limit on copies.7) Sideboards are allowed and encouraged, and may include up to 1 rare and 3 uncommons, duplicating perfectly the rarity distribution of a typical booster pack. Additionally, none of the cards in the sideboard can be copies of the cards in the main deck.8) Sideboards are allowed to have 4 copies of up to two particular commons in the sideboard.Idea from Challenge came from:http://www.cardshark.com/Articles/Magic-the-Gathering/Brock-Siems/Advent-of-An-Aristocrat-%E2%80%9COfficial%E2%80%9D-Rules-for-a-New-Magic-Format/View-Article/4435
Play creatures and spells that hack away at your opponent's library rather than life. Every card, whether it is a kill spell, counterspell, or draw spell, also has the added mill effect. The only exceptions are Jace's Phantasm and Nihilith, and the latter is a 4/4 creature with fear that you can suspend for 2 mana and put into play (which gives it haste) for 2 or even 1 additional mana. And mill 7 cards at the same time, if not more. For the more aggressive creatures like Nihilith and Consuming Aberration, there's Mindcrank and Evanescent Intellect so they can still tap and attack when you need them to. If you like it, please leave comments or suggestions and if you wish, leave a link so I can return the favor.
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Consider Guiltfeeder, for this deck. He could be brutal. The Crab is interesting, I see a lot of people running it!Creature heavy mill decks are neat. Though, my favorite mill cards are Tome Scour and Mind Sculpt :)Looks playable. Tested it yet?Keep us updated!!!
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Thanks for looking at the deck! I had forgotten about Guiltfeeder. I don't think I would use it because the deck focuses on milling and not loss of life. I looked hard at Tome Scour though (I especially love the M14 flavor text), but I couldn't find a spot for it. Maybe if I move things around in the sideboard.Have I tested it... not exactly. I just moved to a new area and I don't know anybody that plays MTG, so I don't have anyone to test new decks against. I suppose I could play it against myself, use Blackpearl...
What is Blackpearl?
My W/B Cleric tribal. My oldest deck and the first one I posted here on MTGVault. It's pretty straightforward.I added Haunting Echoes to the sideboard. I think you will agree, it's a stronger card than Traumatize.
Anubis, Anubis, Anubis. Just in. From the person that made the Format.He checked out MTGvault.Guess who's Aristocrat deck he liked the best?Yep, your deck!!Good job, guy! http://cardshark.freeforums.org/advent-of-an-aristocrat-official-rules-for-a-new-magic-fo-t1036.html
I checked out the forum. I'm so excited! The quality of my decks has tended to wax and wane over the years, so it's cool to see he likes this one.
Indeed. Positive reinforcement is always nice! Hopefully more people will look/like/comment on it.
On an unrelated note, I took your advice and did some playtesting against some of my other decks. Of course, I was playing against myself, so I knew what was in my opponent's hand, but it didn't really affect the decisions I made.Aristocrat Mill vs. Wurms for Life:A mono green deck all about gaining life to pump up Voracious Wurm. Unfortunately, lifegain doesn't help against a mill deck. Wurms had an problem that green doesn't normally run into: getting enough mana. Wurms was only able to play two Forests the entire game, and they were enchanted by Mill with Chronic Flooding. Once Mind Funeral hit the battlefield, it was game over. This one was a slaughter.Winner: Aristocrat MillAristocrat Mill vs. BlackpearlA white/black tribal deck featuring clerics. Blackpearl was able to get enough Clerics out so that when Gangrenous Goliath was milled to the graveyard, its ability could be used and it could be replayed. Mill was actually down to 8 life by the time Blackpearl's library ran out.Winner: Aristocrat MillAristocrat Mill vs. Icy HotA blue/red creatureless deck with more burn and control spells than you can shake an Isochron Scepter at. I thought with Elixir of Immortality and a constant barrage of burns, this deck would be able to pull through. Unfortunately, all of the Elixirs were milled early in the game and after that, even Imprinting a counterspell on a scepter wasn't enough to save Icy.Winner: Aristocrat MillAristocrat Mill vs. Phage the UnusualThis is my Johnny deck. This is the deck that will win games. When others turn to Coalition Victory, I turn to Phage (I'm starting to show my age). A mono black that doesn't make Phage unblockable, but sacrifices her to Endless Whispers and "donates" her to an opponent, forcing them to lose the game. The first Whispers was countered by Mill, so Phage transmuted Dimir House Guard to get another. Phage played Leveler, which was also countered, but by this time there were two more in hand ready to go. Even with over half the deck milled, Phage still came out on top.Winner: Phage the UnusualIn the end, this deck won against 3 out of 4 games I played. I found out two things: this is a strong deck, definitely one of my better ones, as it will hit as fast as it can and cripple opponents. It's very aggressive. I also learned about some of the weaknesses in all of my decks, and I've refined them a lot. I will do this more often. Thanks, Jessie.
You are very welcome.Thank you for showing me such a nice deck! :)
Dude, this deck is very good. I love it ... but, no offence, it could be leagues more potent if that mana curve were dropped lower. I mean, I have no doubt that this deck is brutal to play against, but could be absolutely soul-crushing if you deigned to focus on the early-game even more.Look at this:Turn 1; Island, Hedron CrabTurn 2; Hedron Crab, Evolving Wilds (mill 6 cards), Sac Wilds and search for swamp (mill 6 cards)Turn 3; Swamp (mill 6 cards), Mind Sculpt (mill 7 cards), Memory Sluice (mill 4 cards), Tap Hedron Crabs and conspire Sluice (mill 4 cards)That's 33 cards milled by turn 3 (Hedron Crabs 18 + 7 Mind Sculpt + 8 Memory Sluice), and if you went first, that's before your opponent could even think of playing an elixir of immortality. That's patently ridiculous.Or with Nihilith:Turn 1: Island, Hedron CrabTurn 2: Swamp (mill 3 cards), suspend NihilithTurn 3: Swamp or Island (mill 3 cards), Mindcrank, Memory Sluice (mill 4 cards), Attack with Nihilth (mill 4 cards when it likely hits)That's 14 probable cards milled, and a massive 4/4 creature with fear staring at your opponent.While I love nemesis of reason, you do need to attack with it to mill those 10 cards, and even with mindcrank out, it will only hit for 3. I really think consuming aberration would make an amazing card, especially since you are running mindcrank. If you are really evil, you can nail your OWN consuming aberration with a grisly spectacle (milling like ... 30 cards or so of your own deck) if your opponent tries to pull off a late-game elixir of immortality (note: the ability of consuming aberration goes on the stack before it is destroyed, and it's power and toughness update right before it is killed). Then follow up with a psychic spiral to unleash a massive mill spell on the opponent who foolishly thought that he was safe.
Jesus H Christ, I love when people write paragraphs on helping another deck out! :)33 cards milled on turn 3!!!And here I always thoughtTurn 1. Island. Tome Scour (5 cards)Turn 2. Black. Glimpse (15 cards total)Turn 3. Mind Funeral (19-30 cards total, on average)was a good way to mill massive amount of cards!!I am so behind the times! "patently ridiculous" HokeyPokey, you have to be HANDS DOWN the funniest guy on here!Where do you come up with this crap?!And I always thought the way to go was Tome Scour, Glimpse, Mind Funeral, Mind Sculpt...and could not understand why Hedron Crab was so great (I sold all my copies), but this explanation tells how powerful he can be. :)
Thank you for the compliment. You are pretty damn funny yourself when you want to be Jessie. Seriously ... "hands down"!? :PAnd as for where I pull this crap from .... read on!But before we head that way, there is a matter I would like to address. I would prefer it if you did not take the lord's name it vain. Don't go on apologizing about it ... a lifetime of navigating the interwebs and youtubes has left me a more than adequately thick-skinned and seasoned veteran of the utterly baffling phenomenon known as ... comments.I feel that my views on comments should be compounded here. Lord knows how much stupidity, ignorance, and bigotry I have suffered though ... I only hope that my monologue will help others to avoid unpleasant experiences.Conversation is based upon respect for your audience. If you want your audience to listen, first show your respect for them. Treat them as equals.My Freshman English professor in high school, Mr. Lazarek, told me that, and it remains the best advice I was ever given. If I may indulge in the same example that he used. Read the beginning of Patrick Henry's famous "Give me Liberty" speech. Notice that the FIRST words out of Patrick Henry's mouth are laden with respect.http://www.history.org/almanack/life/politics/giveme.cfmBut there exist so many more ways to show respect apart from openly acknowledging it!Though it seems obvious, don't attack people, and quickly apologize if your audience misinterprets your response, or if you are simply wrong. Humility is far for attractive than vindictive, childish behaviour.Take the time to craft a good response. It is paramount to ensure that you have written with proper grammar and punctuation, and reference the correct information. Making sure your argument is logically ordered is also a nice touch. People notice when go the extra mile!The quality of the view you cultivate may do your knowledge credit, but the effort you put into polishing and articulating your response speaks volumes about your character and respect towards other people. Presentation really matters.Use humour when appropriate. The secret to developing excellent humour and wit is part turning to the experts and part unyielding and unceasing practice. I am merely a relatively cultured American who has taken to time to study the mannerisms and phraseology of those more literate than I, and it has taken me far! I heartily encourage that you look to public speakers of skill.Whether those role models be true, paid comedians, creators of animated shorts, or even game reviewers (the latter are an exceptionally good source of wit), the process of learning by osmosis is a tried and true fact, or so I like to tell myself. If you have no soul - looking at you, black players - yes, politicians are rather apt at the use of felicitous language. So many golden nuggets of wit and language can be found among these accomplished individuals! And each discovery you make will only serve to expand the ease of expression you enjoy.Employ appropriate vocabulary. This is based upon your audience. Enrich your conversation with colourful language, but know when it is time to speak plainly. Beating people over the head with flowery descriptions, or resorting to those infernal texting abbreviations and thereby belittling your audience, is a terrible mistake. Proper language promotes equality.As for timing ... it turns out that full body armor and a helmet makes for one helluva poker face :). In all seriousness, take the time to knock a ball into your audience's court. Engage them. If they don't want to listen, then it is not time to speak. Simple as that.If you must disagree ... first evaluate whether a response will lead to a conversation as opposed to an argument. The former always opens minds and advances towards the truth; the latter leads to repeated attacks on the argument or the person who presented it. For you naive bloggers out there ... there are such persons called "Trolls" who only seek conflict, and accomplish this by posting controversial or extremely offensive comments. If you truly think the resulting discourse will be constructive, continue ahead. First things first ... begin with a statement of respect. Point out good things in the argument of the individual. Throughout you conversation, tie your talk into the discussion or source material, and never stop being positive.Then ... simply talk. Don't reference dogma, or other sources, or previous arguments too much. That's a sign that you aren't truly conversing. Acknowledge only the previous comment, and reference only when it will add.Whelp, I'm rambling, but I feel like this thread might prove to be useful to bloggers. Maybe ... several of us more experienced vault users could write a set of guideline for comments on this site. That would be refreshing, and quite helpful for newcomers.And don't you go congratulating little old me ... just take a look at the sheer number of comments you have made, and the number of article decks you have made. You have a family, and are going to college, and have a house to clean ... and still manage to be, hands-down, the single most prolific helper of aspiring deck-builders on this site. I am deeply honorable to know you ... in the shallow, impersonal way that this site allows. :)To all who took the time to read to the end of this beast of a comment - thank you for your time, good luck, and happy deck building.
I read it all...my head hurts now, but I read it all. :)Okay, no more Jesus in vain, and what not. English, yuck! Math guy myself! Sorry such a short response to your essay, lol. :)
Meh ... prompt simplicity is just as good if not better than delayed complexity.To quote Benjamin Franklin, "Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing."What about that blogger's manifesto? Do you want to help out?
No, it is to political correct for me, :)It all sounds very respectable, nice, decent, etc...I am just too crude/rude!
Meh ... quantity has a quality all of its own, I guess.
Sorry...:( I just...am not political correct, lol. Everything, almost, is up for saying/discussing/making fun of. Life is too short, friend, to be worried about offending every person you come across. I guess...I just have thick skin, and can make fun of almost anything...so sorta am taken back when other people aren't like me. lol. But, you are in the right, HokeyPokey, for your words and ideas. I do know that. It just isn't me, though!
I guess...anyone/anywhere can make fun of anything about me. My lack of education.My living situation.Financial situation.Political views.Religious views.Anything but my family.
Wow. Look at what you miss when you work on the weekends. I will try to respond to things in the same order that was originally posted.First and most importantly, thank you for looking at my deck, Knight of the Hokey Pokey. Have I ever mentioned what an awesome card that is? If not, there it is. I am also a fan of Bronze Calendar. But I digress.Now then, I would like to put it on record that if you take the time to write not just one, but two thoughtful, eloquent, and logical comments on one of my decks, I will NEVER be offended.With the exception of Icy Hot, the mana curve on most of my decks is mid/high. I don't put my focus on the early game unless it's adding a few cheap blockers or disruptive spells. This deck is no exception. It isn't about winning by turn 4, it is about milling constantly, relentlessly, until your opponent cries or punches you in the face. Or both. That is one reason I was hesitant to focus on Hedron Crab at first; I can only add one more according to the rules and that doesn't help my chances of getting two in my opening hand by much (although I'm sure someone, somewhere has done the math and can produce the percentages). I also like the cards in the deck, and I (usually) build my decks with a variety of cards rather than running 4 copies of the 8 or 9 "best" cards. It works with me and against me.Now that you have an idea of how I build a deck, generally speaking, you can take the entire last paragraph and throw it out the window. I liked the examples you use. Speed will make this deck more deadly, and when I built it I could not have imagined getting 33 cards milled by turn 3. Now, Hedron Crab is uncommon, and most of the higher costing cards like Dreadwaters, Grisly Spectacle, and Returned Centaur are all common. I did find a spot in place of one Duskmantle, whose ability requires more mana for less cards. Memory Sluice is a great card in this deck because so few creatures need to attack unless Mindcrank is out, which is why it was originally included in the sideboard. I traded it out for Dreadwaters because I realized it's going to be very late in the game before Dreadwaters is as effective. Evolving Wilds does have good synergy with even one Hedron Crab, and most of the lands in the deck are basic anyway, so I included that as well.I included Nemesis of Reason because the focus of this deck is not getting your opponent from 20 life to 0. It's getting him or her from 60 cards to 0. With Nemesis and Mindshrank in play, I don't see it as "it will only hit for 3". I see my opponent having two choices: block this creature and lose 10 cards, or let it hit you and lose 13. I liked those numbers. Then I took a look at Consuming Aberration. I must have missed it the first time around because I didn't recognize it on Vault and I don't have a copy (yet). It is a powerful card, and I agree that it would be a stronger creature than Nemesis. In it goes.Please don't misunderstand anything that I've said here. I'm not trying to hopelessly defend any of my decisions, nor am I saying that I know better. On the contrary; this is the first mill deck I've ever built and I need criticisms like yours. What I am doing is explaining why I chose the cards I did. Your suggestions are very much appreciated and I am making most of the changes you have indicated. If I am not imposing, I would love for you to take a look at my "Phage the Unusual" deck. It is also a deck that after playtesting I feel could use a little bit of Carbos. At your leisure, of course.As a side note, I also overlooked Hedron Crab's usefulness in a deck like this. I always thought it would be more practical in a green deck that had lots of mana ramp, but obviously I was wrong.Since this has come to be far longer than I anticipated, I will continue in another reply.
I realize now that it's 4:00 am where I live, so this may not be my best writing, but I will do my best under the circumstances."Conversation is based upon respect for your audience. If you want your audience to listen, first show your respect for them. Treat them as equals."I like this a lot. It is something I try to do every day, and you put it simply but artfully, Hokey Pokey. I cannot say I pay as much attention to blog posts (though I think that will change), but in every day conversation, I'm always taking the time to carefully articulate what I want to express, because people remember not only your words, but your tone and your attitude. You cannot say, "While I respect your position, I believe..." unless you truly do feel that respect, because people will be able to see right through you.I've also been told frequently that I'm a quiet person. Not only because I take my time responding, but because I don't talk. And I will tell people, if I don't have anything to say, I don't speak. Empty words don't add to a conversation; I again wholeheartedly agree with you there.Your note of adding humor reminds me of my father. He is without a doubt the most charming person I know. No matter who he is talking to, no matter what the situation is, he can make that person laugh. He always seems to know just what to say to lift their spirits. It's an enviable quality, if I may say so. I asked him about it once, and he said that when faced with a conflict, he always found the easiest resolution (for him, I would add) was to dispel it with humor. There is no point in two people arguing incessantly and getting nothing accomplished.I also like what you put as guidelines for when people disagree. If more people did that in general, I feel there would be a lot more conversations and far fewer "trolls".Your beast of a comment is very useful, at least to me, and I would hope that people do notice this and take it to heart. I suppose the only question I have is, is this blogger's manifesto still under construction? Do you need any help with it? I would be happy to assist any way that I can.
Hi there!!i cant read all the previous comments so forgive me if i repeat things!!!i run mill as my basic deck..one thing i can say is that you need to be fast...otherwise you will lose to all aggro decksyou have a lot of 3-4 mana cost spells which i believe is bad cuz in turn 3-4-5 you can only play one card and that will put you behind cuz if lets say you mill he will attack if you destroy something he might get the card he needs etcalso i use to play mindcrank...i sound out that i cant attack cuz i have to defend with my creatures so its not that good...also you need to draw cards for more options and i believe Thought Scour is one of the best cards for mill decksalso i think that nihilith is only good if you draw it early so not that usefull if you only have it one time...you need a rare that can do an instant BAM...i would prefer Glimpse the Unthikable or the good old Avatar of Woea very usefull creature is Jace's Phantasmalso Psychic Spiral is a card i dislike cuz its too expenssive and good only against other mill decksthese are some of my opinions with your restrictions!!have fun milling!
Sorry it took me so long to reply.First of all, thank you so much for looking at my deck! This is my first time making a mill deck and I really appreciate the feedback.Secondly, I don't blame you for not reading all of the comments here. I can get rather longwinded if I let myself go, and I kinda did earlier. I'll try to keep this response at a reasonable length.One thing I've noticed as well is that speed is very important. The only real aggro deck I have is my $6 deck, so I could try a little more playtesting and see how that goes. We'll see. Speaking of playtesting, while I was first testing out the deck I noticed something you cleverly pointed out: Psychic Spiral is only useful in a handful of scenarios, and is better served on my sideboard than my main deck. I made that change, and a few others to bring in smaller CMC cards, including Jace's Phantasm (I don't know how I missed that my first time around).While I do love me some Glimpse the Unthinkable, I'm happy with my rares. I know Nihilith is not the first card people think of when the word mill comes to mind, but the Timmy in me loves playing a 4/4 with fear and haste for 4 mana and the Johnny in me loves milling 12-15% of my opponent's deck while doing it. And it works in other decks besides mill. It's such a fun card!
Hi again!!Im not saying that nihilith is bad!!im just saying that you build a deck with only one nihilith so the chances of you drawing that in a good moment are decreased!thats why i dont like it :P Also i dont know if you have tested it so i have one more thing to say!!i use to run counters in my deck...what i found out is that i wont be able to play them cuz i use all of my mana so i cant protect the rest of my cards..it will happen in the 7-8-9 turn but up until then they are pretty much useless unless you want to save a crab or something..you propably thought you could save a big one or a mill-card (thats what i was thinking back in the day) so check it yourself..i could be very wrong!the same goes for the destroy exept that you can use it as a destroy/mill when the counter goes only as a response...i use to play them both!!Some other cards you might like are Crypt Incursion, Dream Twist (i think its better than Tome Scour cuz you have something to do when your hand is empty) and Gravedigger's Cage for anti-graveyard decks (instead of the expenssive Haunting Echoes)I could tell you about a lot of cards but most of them are rare or uncommon and illegal in this deck!!
Sorry! I guess I misunderstood you. ^^;Like I said, I'm happy with my rares. I tried to include cards that are powerful but not so necessary that the deck can't function without them, because like you said, I only have one in the deck. That's why I rejected cards like Oona, Queen of the Fae.I have done some playtesting. I played against four of my other decks (me against myself), and the details are in a comment above, but in a nutshell, it won three out of the four games. I actually want to do some more once all of this is figured out. The counterspells were useful in a couple of the games I played, but 4 may be more than necessary. I will take another look.If you have any suggestions for cards, I would love to hear what they are. Even if they are rare or uncommon, they might lead me to something else that I can use. I am thinking about replacing some of the cards in the deck. For example, I was considering swapping out Grisly Spectacle for something like Echoing Truth. It doesn't mill (I can't find any bounce spells that mill), but it does potentially remove more threats, even if it's only long enough for me to throw out the final game-ending Mind Sculpt. How do you feel about bounce spells in general?Finally, speaking of uncommons, I was looking at my sideboard and thinking about Extract from Darkness. Stealing creatures is satisfying, but doesn't really help this deck since the creatures I need are in here. I was looking at Dimir Machinations and Wight of Precinct Six, but what uncommons do you like?
Not bounce...but counter.Consider Induce Paranoia.
Funny you mention it, I originally had both Induce Paranoia and Psychic Strike in the deck. I thought Paranoia was too expensive to be effective for this particular deck, so I cut it and put the focus on Strike.
Oh, well, there you go. Great minds think alike :)
Personally i dont like bounce spells...they are annoying and i hate playing against them but i dont like to run them in my decks..instead of blue bounce i prefer black discard like Distress and Horrifying Revelation.. these are the cheap ones but you can easily find similar discard cards..Distree is actually very usefull cuz you can get rid of something bad and take a look at your opponents strategy to plan your next moves so i like stuff like thatIf you want other suggestions i dont think Mindcrank isnt good unless you find a combo for it and build a deck around it..maybe you could try two other uncommon that will definately work..ive won games with the 5/5 flying Phantash so you can run one more or a Ghost Quarter that can help with your Mind Funeral and Chronice Flooding or run some cheap creatures that can help with Memory Sluice like Black Cat(discard) or Dimir Infiltrator (can also help you search a card) and help you def
Bounce is my favorite :)http://www.mtgvault.com/jessie/decks/best-15-deck-on-the-vault/
Fair enough. Some people like bounce and some don't. I've found in the games that I play control it's an effective way of forcing an opponent to use up his or her mana by replaying spells.Distress is a great discard, if I should go that route. Mindcrank is in the deck because this deck has more creatures in it than other mill decks by comparison (not all of course, but some that I've seen on the site), which is surprising because 12 doesn't seem like a lot to me. It also gives me something to do with Jace's Phantasm and Nihilith and similar creatures: this deck does not care about life totals, it's only concern is your opponent's library.I like Ghost Quarter and the idea of a combo with Mind Funeral. I will see if I can work it in somewhere.
J: I checked out that bounce deck. Great minds indeed.