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Majority of the tricolor decks coming out are colors we are not normally used to seeing together. Esper did lose a lot of decent cards when Ravnica rotated but it didn't lose anything that rendered it completely useless. Yes, Jace Architect of Thought and Sphinx's Revelation were staples in the deck (or any control deck) but that doesn't make the colors of the deck type completely dead. The filtering Jace and Revelation did can be done with scry and draw. This Esper deck utilizes both and can hopefully hold it's own against some of the aggressive top tier decks out there.
- EDIT: (Took out Sorin for Ashiok) Ashiok can come in early game and mill out some resources of your opponent to possibly put a decent creature on the board for you. He comes in a turn before Sorin and can do more for the deck than Sorin can. Granted the Sorin/Elspeth combo is a decent one, it doesn't do too much for a deck that hardly has any other creatures to begin with. Using Ashiok's ultimate is a killer but you'll probably see a bunch of your opponents creatures that you'll want to throw out before you get the chance to pull it off.- EDIT: (Took out Prognostic Sphinx for Pearl Lake Ancient) Resolute Archangel is in here mainly for her ability, without that a seven mana 4/4 isn't much to gloat at but late game she'll bring your life total back up to 20 to slow down aggro decks or midrange decks a little bit longer. Pearl Lake Ancient is a bit more versatile than Prognostic Sphinx with it's pseudo blink ability by returning 3 lands. It also can't be countered, can come in at the end of your opponents turn, and hits harder. The downside is to protect it you have to set yourself back 3 turns but bring back scry lands to scry again can also benefit you late game. - The spells were a bit tricky since there were tons of things I wanted to fit into the maindeck but couldn't. I wanted Banishing Light in the main deck but decided to put it in the sideboard for something to bring in against other control decks and midrange. The choice between Read the Bones and Divination was tough because the idea of taking 2 to draw 2 could hurt you more than benefit you even with the scry. But the scry 2 and draw 2 for a possible 4 turns ahead of your opponent won me over.
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I find it interesting that you don't have Nyx-Fleece Ram in this list at all - particularly because you only have one archangel mainboard. Was that play-tested with less than optimal results?
Permalink
I've thought about putting the ram in. Main or side but just decided to go with more spells. *EDIT*: I haven't play tested this yet so after doing so I might find out what to take out for the Ram. If I even want to put it in at all.
First off, the main thing that old Esper had was supreme Judgement. Not Revelation. Revelation is just a stall. Not a super strong control like Judgement was. Another main card was Detention Sphere. The new Esper isn't bad, it's just a lot harder and not as low cost Mana. Dissolve is super solid right now, it's #2 only to Thoughtseize. End Hostilities is a good one, but if you're running enough Dissolves and Thoughtseizes, it should never get to that point. Also, I do like the Ashiok, but if you did want some Mill you could combo him with Phenax. Some more Aetherspouts would be good, along with some other removal. Bile blight is okay still, but you won't see double/triple copies on the field that often after the first match if you play it. Add another Prognostic Sphinx, you wanna see him as soon as your fifth draw when playing today's current control. Since he can set you up with the Scry 3.A little too much variety for me.I'm used to playing 4x Supreme Judgement though. Used to see it a ton. In fact the M15 winning deck was an B/W with 4 Judgement, 4 Revelation, 4 Jace, and tons of 4x removal spells. New esper is hard since it's not a clan that was designed. There are definitely cards that still fit in it, but they're slower and not as strong as clan designed cards. Gl man
Supreme verdict is a lot better than end hostilities however, end hostilities can be used in a wider variety of decks. Edit : day of judgment and supreme verdict...
end hostlities also kills equipment and bestowed creatures
Hey guys, I just started running this deck wins at FNM!! check it out. http://www.mtgvault.com/djnsports05/decks/cyclops-smash/
Its nice to see an esper deck again. I hope it makes a comeback. Like the challenge. Let me know what you think of a few of my recent decks if you don't mind. Thanks.
Finally a good deck on the front page! :DHave you considered Ashiok? I love him against creature-based decks.And without Elspeth, Sorin isn't doing much here with his +1 ability...Overall a Very Nice deck. ;)
Thanks very much and I have considered Ashiok of course. I'm thinking when I play test the deck I test it out with Ashiok and then with Sorin and see which I like more. I'll keep everyone posted on that front. *EDIT*: Yea the more I think about it the more I want Ashiok in here for an early game presence to possibly get some of my opponents creatures out. So I'm going to make the switch now.
Esper is always a fine choice. <3
AZ88, would x3 Artisan of Forms be good in this deck wed have to use bile blight on it but then u could copy an opponents creature and gains the ability to copy, as a curve ball kind of play and way of blocking damage? or using opponents creatures abilities against them?or using clever impersonator maybe x3 having these side decked?
Just out of curiosity, why only 3 dig through time? Is four too much for your graveyard to handle?
Honestly I might consider dropping a murderous cut for the fourth dig, mostly because card draw in a deck like this is so important, I can't see you running any less than 4 draw spells. Jace's ingenuity is a more graveyard friendly version to consider, if you think that 7 delve cards is too much... :3
I agree with most of these, but I think a one of elspeth is a good idea, just so if sphinx isn't nearly as good in a match up, you have another option.
Also maybe some thoughtseize? seems like an awesome card in your colors that I would totally run if I were you... :D
Why would I only run one of Elsepth? She's one of the win conditions and running only one of her hurts the deck more than anything. A fourth dig through time isn't needed at all. Running three should cut it especially in the times when I want it to be a removal card instead of a draw card. And I have Thoughtseize in the sideboard.
Because with all of your card draw you will almost always draw her (though you're testing the deck so you know better than I do). I've just been seeing a lot of control decks with 4 dig doing well and always being able to fully use the four digs and I just thought four seemed right. Gotcha missed that... X3
Elspeth just isn't good in the current standard, she's too slow, easily dealt with and basically if you rely on her to win you're in serious trouble. One of in the board maybe, but would strongly recommend against main boarding any. @Maumau17 good catch in the Thoughtseize I missed the lack of them, definitely a 3-4 of. Also thanks for deleting my comment about the other stuff you might want. WTF!
Yeah Thoughtseize is such a good card right now, since aggro isn't a bunch of the meta (though I will try to change that... XD) it seems so good! :D What? X3
Elspeth isn't my only win condition. I still have Sphinx, Ashiok, and the angel. Also go look at the top placing decks that have white. A good amount of them will have anywhere between 2-3 Elspeth in the main deck. Aggro isn't big in the meta? Majority of the decks that place are midrange/aggro. The deck seems to run well with 3 Elsepth from me play testing so far so I'll keep it as it is.
Aggro in the previous sense of the word, and aggro and midrange are completely different archetypes. Midrange is most of the meta right now, maybe it has gotten swapped around due to the last GP (I'm playing mono red aggro after the top 8 by a mono red player), but as far as I know most of the meta is midrange. If you're happy with your list the way it is, then I have no further comments, sorry that I couldn't be of any help!
I know their two different deck types but midrange still has a lot of creatures that need to be dealt with. If I have to bring Thoughtseize in against it, which I probably would, I'll bring it in game 2. But I just don't feel like I need it for game one because I'd value spot removal over it. I appreciate your input though. Don't get me wrong. Just can't see myself making those changes right now. If I were to maindeck Thoughtseize I'd probably swamp out one Murderous Cut and one Utter End. *EDIT*: Also I've been thinking about putting in Glare of Heresy into the sideboard.
Yeah thats a very valid point, there are a ton of creatures in the current meta... Speaking of creatures, how has AEtherspouts been for you? What match-ups would Glare help you in?
Glare would help with anything with white. There are lots of things I could use that card on. Abzan, Mordu, Jeskai, plenty of options to bring it in. AEtherspouts is nice but I hate popping it when only like 2 creatures are attacking. I prefer for my opponent to have a decent amount and then I use it. It's situational but it can ruin their tempo.
whelming wave could replace aetherspouts if you want to make sure to clean his board if he is any creature player. Its sorcery though.
Yeah lots of white in Standard Now that I think about it. Right, and that's pretty key to winning that match up... Though seige rhino ETB again isn't that huge of a deal for them either... X3
Waves is only a really good option if you're running Pearl Lake Ancient cause it doesn't get bounced by it and lets you attack unblocked.
can you take out murderous cut for doom blade? the deck needs more lower cost cards
Only if this wasn't standard. Then again, I don't think doom blade would be that great in standard right now.
Doom Blade wouldn't be that great at all. Also there really isn't a kill spell that's cheap besides Hero's Downfall. Using delve, Murderous Cut could be a possible 1 mana kill spell though, and as KJ said Doom Blade is no longer a standard card and this is a standard deck.
No "Drown In Sorrow" for the aggrodecks? Also the Jeskai Decks don't want to see it.I also would cut a Cut and go for one more Downfall.I also thought about an Esper-Deck, because of the fetch. But at this time i like my BUG-Control.
I do not have a fourth downfall but I can easily get one so good idea, and thank you for reminding me about Drown in Sorrow. I'll make room for it in the board now.
In the Jeskai-Day's i think a Drown In Sorrow is better than the Nyx-Ram, because it is against both Decks a good answere, Jeskai-Combo and all Aggro's.Just my 2 cent ;)
I'm trying to find room in the sideboard for a second Archangel to bring in against rabble red and other burn decks.
Pearl Lake Ancient > Prognostic Sphinx
I've thought about that a lot actually. Would you run that over the scry 3?
youre so removal heavy that keeping the board clean shouldnt be an issue, with the added bonus of being able to flash it in, swing for 6 (or 7 or 8) and then tap a bunch of land to bounce it back to your hand to End Hostilities, should you need to....Its a more flexible wincon, despite not having "actual" evasion
Valid points...thanks NInja. *EDIT*: One of?
2, i think. straight swap. allows for one to get countered, or something. Disdainful Stroke is a real card...
It can't be countered though?
haha reading is hard. yeah. I still like two.
Same here. Liking it a bit better now.
yeah. looks good. good luck
Depending on your meta, hushwing could be useful.
Don't Run two please one at most, if you are meta-conscious the pro decks run 1 sideboard, 1 main is okay i guess, i think sphinx is good for evasion.
Hi so I have some serious problems finding a good deck to play at FNM, and I really like how much control this deck has, but I am a bit confused about PLA because the text says, never mind it doesn't specify if its an opponent, omg this is such a good card. So you can attack and put him back in your hand for 3 mana, so good and then end hostilities or elspeths destroy creatures with power 4 or greater.
And what did you mean by straight swap, two Prognostic Sphinx for PLA, is that what you guys meant so have Prognostic Sphinx in sideboard?
I don't have all the cards so to play test it I wrote the cards on paper and put them in sleeves lol
Sounds familiar.
Whelming wave maybe? 4 mana return all creatures to owners hands. Pain Seer, or Dictate of kruphix for more card advantage, but other wise like the deck
You should put radiant fountains in for extra life gain lands maybe. Also I feel like nyx fleece ram in a necessity in a control deck with white in it. Otherwise it seems like a very good Esper deck without sphinx rev. On another note does anyone have any ideas for my U/B deck. I want it to be competitive at FNM, Trying to find interesting things that are a little out of the norm which you might be able to see from looking at my deck. http://www.mtgvault.com/djnsports05/decks/ub-midrange/
I am sorry to say this, but this deck is bad and expensive.You play esper YET NO THOUGHTSEIZE,TWO MAINBOARD PEARL LAKES, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING YOU BIMBUS.PROGNOSTIC SPHINX, end caps, is much much better.MURDEROUS CUT IS OUT AS WELL AS AETHER SPROUTS, you dont need. i Know 1 mana kill spell seems good, but not as good as 2 mana dig, if you waste ur delve on cuts, then no cheap digs simple. ON THAT NOTE 4 digs mainsboard plz.Banishing lights should be mainboard. Resolute archangel is good as one of.You should be running mainboard 1-2 drown in sorrows.
you clearly dont know what youre talking about. the kind of player that thinks Prognostic Sphinx is better than PLA is the kind of player I want to play against in tourneys all day.
Yeah I like decks that go different. I hate going to FNM and playing people and going oh... So you watched the pro tour for what decks are in the top 8.. Magic is suppose to be fun and creative!
"You play esper YET NO THOUGHTSEIZE"- Look in the sideboard..."TWO MAINBOARD PEARL LAKES, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING YOU BIMBUS"- I'm thinking instead of stalling the game out I want to see my win cons pretty frequently"PROGNOSTIC SPHINX, end caps, is much much better"- The scry 3 is nice and his ability can help out my delve but eventually , if I'm playing against a smart player, I'm going to burn my hand just trying to protect him and it also hurts in the sense that I might need to block with him. Pearl Lake Ancient is easier to protect, wont wear my resources out, can't be countered, and hits hard with a possibility to hit a lot harder. "MURDEROUS CUT IS OUT AS WELL AS AETHER SPROUTS, you dont need. i Know 1 mana kill spell seems good, but not as good as 2 mana dig, if you waste ur delve on cuts, then no cheap digs simple. ON THAT NOTE 4 digs mainsboard plz"- You can't be serious? Look at every deck that has placed in any/every pro event and they'll have Dig as a 3 of and Murderous Cut as a 2-3 of as well. If you waste your delve to make Murderous Cut a one mana kill spell each and every time and not leaving any resources to delve your Digs then you're just a bad player. "Banishing lights should be mainboard"- Probably the one point you made I could probably agree on but I didn't see a need for Banishing Light with 4x Hero's Downfall and 2x Utter End. If I absolutely need them then I'll bring them in from the sideboard. "You should be running mainboard 1-2 drown in sorrow"- So running six possible board wipes in the main deck? That just seems like a big waste to me. Sorry but...you don't seem like the best player.
Isn't that why there's a sb in the first place? To swap out cards that don't fare well against certain decks for ones that do?
Oky, i was getting into it a fair bit when i commented the first time but here goes;I agree with KJ, however the amount of main/side drowns is irrelevant as long as you have 3-4 total.I am going to continue my point about sphinx over ancient. I know ancient is shiny and knew or whatever but it isnt effective. It comes out much later than Prognostic Sphinx and it has absolutely no evasion. The only reason you would run is is so that you can boardwipe and leave it protected, even then you are going to be another 1-2 turns minimum until you can recast it. Meanwhile the sphinx is immune to kill spells (not wipes) and deals 3 damage with evasion, can block as effectively as the ancient (except maybe a polukranos or something) and gets of that scry 3 while its at it, which is really good fun.I don't like murderous cut, but I can't stop you so i'll ignore it, my real problem is aether sprouts, the only deck that AEther spouts is good against is the very same deck you can kill all the creatures with a drown in sorrow. it just isnt that strong, i know people like running new cards but i think you need to let this one slip.Meanwhile i like your balance of planeswalkers and your removal, except for a lack of banishing lights. There are very few decks that can beat a banishing light, without using a banishing light of their own, and hey i fancy my elspeth living. So while your thinking about things to cut i reccommend going down to 1 ancient, or maybe just 1 in the sideboard, taking out Spouts would be good and I agree with dissolve over the new 4 cmc counterspell, the only deck having 2 mana counterspells is really that much more useful again doesnt run anything with CMC 4 to begin with!Some people are saying nyx-fleece rams, although standard ATM means that there are very few creatures it can block, the amount of standard evasion (sphinx, mantis, swing with a weeny and stoke etc) means they aren't so great.I'm not really that bad, i have my fair share of FNM top 4s and i went 6/3 in my most recent GP (sydney).
the fact that you think PLA has no evasion tells me all I need to know about your credibility. FLASH is evasion. bouncing it back to your hand is evasion. TWO turns later is not "much later" and Control decks dont care about the first 8 turns or so anyways. theyre too busy PLAYING CONTROL to care about winning at that time. the difference between PLA and Sphinx is that you HAVE to drop it on 5 or 6 for it to be at its best, and even then, all it does is turn alll your opponents removal into Raven's Crime. you will empty your hand at some point. There isnt enough card draw in this list to justify Sphinx. No one asked for your stats, and no one cares.
Well isn't someone having a grumpy morning,Evasion (the magic term) refers to the ability to not be blocked, for instance, lets say you are in a control mirror, and you use the flash and bounce or whatever to avoid all board wipes, how on earth is PLA supposed to get past an Elspeth. In a midrange matchup, how can PLA beat a deathdealer? The aggro matchup has a hard time, they couldn't care less about PLA they are gonna get destroyed by an end hostilities.AZ88 called me out on player skill that is why i gave stats Einstein.
Out of curiosity, what does the meta look like? I haven't done tournament play since the rotation. http://www.mtgvault.com/kjsj3/decks/standard-esper-control/
its not morning, its evening. and Im in a great mood. Ill be jamming Legacy tomorrow at SCG Minn. Im still calling you out on player skill, because you talk like a chump. get your crayons out and take some notes, kid. PLA does not care about Deathdealer, because it will be dead by the time PLA is down. YOU DONT NEED EVASION if you are keeping the board clear. and your definition of evasion as antiquated. Hexproof is evasion and it has nothing to do with being blocked. You arent going to teach me anything kid, ive been doing this far longer than you, im sure.
KJ, the meta is all Abzan and Jeskai right now, with a smattering of Mono Red Aggro and various control brews. Control is not very strong right now.
mtgtop8.comthere is the meta for you,Ninja, sorry about the time difference i live in Australia. If you keep clearing the board and bouncing out your PLA how do you expect to attack with it?
it has flash, friend. you endstep it. Its really not that hard. it is undeniably the better option. dont believe me? play with it.
I wouldn't argue about a deck i hadn't run. I changed decks recently to a Sultai version, making use of Sidisi, courser and Caryatid.So far you and i have only been arguing, how do you feel about agreeing with me on one point here, he needs to add in some thoughtseizes, no?
I dont have time for arguing. I need to sleep. You can watch for me tomorrow, running Burn in Legacy. Thoughtseize is fine.
sure, i am excited to you seem like a decent guy and player. I dont discredit you as a player because we disagree on deck choices
Will there be a way to stream the event? I'd like to watch.
Starcitygames.com streams all their events. also SCGLive on Twitch.
Been away so haven't been able to check on my decks but glad that debates happened and points were made. That being said I don't think Thoughtseize is a bad card to go in the mainboard. I just don't want it in the mainboard right now. Although my mind might change in the future. Thanks for yalls input as always.
madzyman would you post a link to your Sultai deck? It sounds like an interesting idea. Thanks.
sure i can http://www.mtgvault.com/madzyman/decks/sidisi-standard/please comment!
@Ninjastyle612 Way to go calling out that moron, I agree completely with what you said about PLA, and I get the running 3 Dig over 4. I personally run 4 Dig, and no Murderous Cut in my UB Control build, but I'm running a much slower game than you I think. I've got 3 Nullify, 2 Negate and 2 Drown MB, and my 3 Thoughtseize in the SB. PLA is just so good and anyone who thinks they're going to be playing it early enough to set themselves back if they have to bounce it is just wrong. I've never played it before turn 12, and even that's early. I've had games where I was at 10 cards left in my library before it came out to win. Only time I'd say Sphinx is better might be in a mirror game where they can discard for hexproof with your spot removal and counter the vaults.
Hey look, a control deck that actually makes sense to me.
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Well, I had looked into getting a U/W control deck when I was looking to get into standard, but I didn't understand how I was supposed to win. I actually see what to do here in order to win.
wat duz this deck specilize in?
It's a control deck.
Nothing like a "copy, paste" spam comment.
The title isn't enough KJ! God! Lol.
The cake is a lie... Was there an inside joke that I missed? Go look at his comment list.
terrible troll is terrible
congrats AZ88 you've done the imposible
Ha. Thank you, I appreciate hearing that.
Great deck! I really like this esper control deck, i really like dig through time and ashiok, they are so fun to play with. :)
Nice deck, look fun ! +1
check out Indulgent Tormentor lets you draw or forces your opponent to sac a creature or lose life! win win.
Not shabby, but I do have one critique. That is one high mana curve, you may want to consider dropping it a bit.Also if you're looking for ideas, I have a deck that works similarly that might be able to provide you with some inspiration. You can find it here: http://www.mtgvault.com/democidist/decks/standard-dimir-control/
If it was a two color control deck I would only be running 24/25 lands but three color control decks NEED to hit a land drop every turn. Running 26 lands can guarantee that better. Hell, most people run 27/28.
Demo, your deck is no longer standard. A friend sent me this link because I normally play control. http://www.channelfireball.com/articles/owens-a-win-ptktk-with-ub-control-11th/
democidist has deleted this comment.
Looking at your deck just reminded me of mine, because they both involve card advantage and draw control. I just thought that you may be able to apply some of the ideas from my deck to yours. Also, I wanted to recommend that you squeeze in Despise. I'd swap out some removal for it and call it good.AZ88: I wasn't trying to suggest that you need less lands.KJSJ3: I realize that the deck isn't in standard anymore, but many of the ideas from it are still around and playable. Thanks for the link.Apparently the link broke, so here's a new one: http://www.mtgvault.com/democidist/decks/standard-dimir-midrange/
oh god!!!!!!!!! i cant stand esper control. GOSH! if i were to play against this deck, i would get so annoyed with end hostlities but very unique and different deck. go check my new deck abzan. will u marry me?
I still have not been able to take this deck to FNM because I don't have all the cards listed but with proxies I've play tested it with friends and I've made some changes.- I took out the second Pearl Lake Ancient. One should be sufficient to get the job done because he's easy to protect and there were times I'd draw the second one and just wish it was something else. Like removal or a draw spell or something. - I took out AEtherspouts and with the Pearl Lake Ancient taken out I put in 2x Despise. I ran it over Thoughtseize simply because majority of the top tier decks will have an annoying creature that I'd want to get rid of as well as a planeswalker and I wont lose the 2 life to it. I may even add in a third. - With removing Thoughtseize I added in 2x Despise to my sideboard and put in 2x more Banishing Light. I'm considering dropping at least 1x Negate for 1x Drown in Sorrow or another Disdainful Stroke because it counters a lot of spells Abzan and the other lot like to cast.
It looks like your mana base needs to be fixed. With 18/18/25 W/U/B symbols, you need a lot more black producing lands. You also want to hit B turn one, while you can't even use W until at least turn four, needing to hit WW turn five, so you can take some of the white producing lands out for more B. You also have too many wincons, in my opinion. Ashiok can be taken out, as can one Elsbeth or the Pearl Lake Ancient. Replace them with two/three Banishing Lights from the sideboard, along with another Dig Through Time. Read the Bones also seems wrong, you don't have enough lifegain to justify the life loss. Divination or Jace's Ingenuity both seem better choices, maybe move a Despise to the main. As far as the sideboard goes, you definitely want four Drown in Sorrows against aggro. So the changes are:Mainboard:-1 Pearl Lake Ancient-2 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver-3 Read the Bones+2 Jace's Ingenuity+1 Dig Through Time+2 Banishing Light+1 DespiseSideboard:-1 Despise-2 Banishing Light+2 Drown in Sorrow+1 Utter End/Disdainful Stroke/Doomwake GiantLands should be:3 Swamp3 Island2 Plains4 Temple of Deceit1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth2 Flooded Strand2 Radiant Fountain4 Polluted Delta3 Temple of Enlightenment3 Temple of Silence
Any updates with fate reforged on this?
If you liked Prognostic Sphinx in the past, please try Silumgar. I tried it last friday as a 1 Silumgar and 1 PLA and it worked pretty good. Silumgar was a real pain to get off the table seriously and it was lowering every creature on my opponent side to finish them of with drown on second main phase (pseudo anger of the gods). Its not the point of Silumgar's ability but its fun to do to me. :) I don't know if 2x Silumgar instead of PLA would work though. For me... I don't think so. I need at least 1 vault in the main instead of 4x crux to clear some weird stuff people play at my local store. Otherwise, Crux + Silumgar is kind of hilarious.
I might redo the entire listing since Fate came out. I'm literally buying a bunch of cards now for all the decks I'm wanting to make.