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Another attempt at making a functional Tibalt deck. This deck tries to squeeze as much value as possible out of every card. It's a tap-out burn/control deck. Uses Blasphemous Act as a boardwipe(Budget, didn't want to pick up Slagstorm that will rotate in a few months). Can be pretty explosive late game with Recurring Chandra's Phoenix's and Misthollow Griffins. When your opponent is topdecking you still have a full hand.
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I really want to get Lingering Souls in here but it really screws with the mana base
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you could just through in like 3 swamps, you have enough discard to get it out of your hand
Desolate Lighthouse? Maybe Lightning Maulers to attack with Misthollows when you cast them?
i like the misthollow giffin, grim lavamancer combo
agreed. The griffin is an amazing card.
It's just a default manabase...I would definately add desolate lighthouse and sulfuric falls
question... why whipeflare instead of pyroclasm? just to keep it standard?
Yeah basically
What are you gonna do when new phyrexia goes out of standard?
Blasphemous Act, perhaps?
Maybe, or maybe Bonfire of the Damned?
If I had Bonfires they would be in instead of Whipflare. Either Blasphemous Act or I'm assuming Pyroclasm is gonna get a reprint.
agreed. I bet that they will reprint it. :)
tibalt work great with unearth for value hellspark hell thunder in red discard it and play it
Unearth would work great but this deck is built standard. If I were to make it Legacy or Modern it would be drastically different.
More concerned with Grim Lavamancer and Chandra's Phoenix rotating. Moorland Haunt could replace the Grim Lavamancer and I'd have to figure something out for Chandra's Phoenix. I'd probably be dipping into White at that point.
Updated the burn suite by adding Incinerate. Using Blasphemous Act as a replacement for Whipflare (which was very underwhelming), instead of getting some slagstorms which rotate in a few months.
rotation doesn't happen till October...it is only june. that is 5 months away why care about rotation. we will have M13 and RTR by then so we don't know. Just run the cards now and how cares about rotation
Point taken
This seems awesome but why not run 4 sulfur falls? Just a thought. I love that your using tibalt, hes so damn awesome i wonder why more arnet using it. Sweet build :) Btw im looking for notes on this deck if you get a spare moment http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=330213 Thank you:)
Good point. Really didn't take much convincing. There was a reason originally.
People aren't using Tibalt because his +1 ability is too risky, and his -4 ability may do little damage (by turn 4 (earliest to use his -4), having more than 4 cards isn't very common, unless they're playing Kamigawa). It's much more riskier to play than, say, Liliana of the Veil, or Jace Beleran: the other cheap planeswalker's. However, if you can find a way to use his +1 without too much pain, then you can succeed very well... and that's what this deck is trying. It looks decently solid.
...Wow. A creative, potentially competitive deck on MTGVault. Been a while since I've seen one of those. For suggestions, I'd say Geistflame and/or Think Twice to replace several non-flashbacking burn spells. Probably incinerate. The only real creatures in standard with three toughness are Fiend Hunter and Golem Tokens, and Golems less so; Skaabs can kill Golems, and you can't hunt a fiendish Misthollow Griffin. So I think that decreasing burn power for card advantage would be worth it, if you know what I mean. Also, if you're just trying to trigger Chandra's Phoenix, 1 damage is all you need. Hmm. Looking at Tibalt, his middle ability is probably his best. Is there any way to milk more value out of that? WAIT. Reforge the Soul. Dumps stuff in your gy, where it can still be used, draws you even more cards, and refills their hand for a Tibalt bomb. Finally, I'd suggest Volt Charge instead of Arc Trail. And, if you want to shell $100 out, get a couple Snapcaster Mage. Those things are going to stay expensive because of Legacy, so you'll not be losing too much money when they rotate (if you sell to a Legacy/Modern player).
First off thanks for the feedback. Both Geistflame and Think Twice were in earlier versions. Think Twice got dropped in favor of a full set of Desperate Ravings due to the dip 2 deep and then discard. Reforge the Soul has got me thinking though...it was suggested early on to me. Early on the deck ran 4xPillars of Flame and 3xGeistflame. It just wasn't enough against 3 toughness creatures. But the creature base has also changed. I think a burn suite of 3x Volt Charge, 2x Geistflame, 2x Devil's Play, then 2x A different burn spell...Arc Trail good against multiple creatures or hit a player and a creature, Pillar of Flame good against undying, Incinerate good against Regen and can kill a 3 Toughness creature, or go a full set of Volt Charge + 3xGeistflame. I'd rather not sped the money on Snapacaster Mage...They are insanely good but am not sure if the deck absolutely needs them. There is already tons of flashback and lots of creatures. His primary use would only be to double up on a burn spell here or there if I'm not already ditching it to Grim Lavamancer.
Thinking maybe 3x Volt Charge, 2x Geistflame, and add 2x Reforge the Soul. Or go 3x Volt Charge, 3x Geistflame, and add 1x Reforge the Soul. All of that instead of the Pillars, Incinerates, and Arc Trails. I'll have to do a little testing with it but the Proliferate on Volt Charge, and Draw 7 on Reforge the Soul could do wonders to Tibalt. And actually not really even sure this deck is a control deck anymore.
great deck I will use this in standard thanks for posting this!
I understand why Misthollow Griffin is in this deck, but I just don't think it is all that good of a card. It's a really cool card, but it's a rather boring card in actual play, and since most cards will be going to your graveyard I don't think it's really the right card here. You can definitely justify a copy or two to work with Skaab or Lavamancer, but having four is just too much in my opinion. If the price-tag isn't a problem for you, Snapcaster Mage would be the best card you could possibly add to this deck. However, if that's a bit out of reach, another card that would be a great addition is the other great blue two-drop: Merfolk Looter. Looter is easily one of the best creatures blue ever had printed. In a deck like this, it gives you card advantage since discarding isn't a big deal. Then, if it gets discarded by Tibalt on accident, you can easily just use it as food for your Skaab. 4 Chandra's Phoenix is a bit much I think. That's another card you could take out a single copy of to fit in more two-drops like Merfolk Looter or Snapcaster. I don't think Pillar of Flame is all the good here. I think it's more of a sideboard card if you had a Sideboard, but Shock or Gut Shot are just better. The Instant speed makes the card better. Yes there are a lot of cards that interact with the graveyard, but in a deck where you're drawing cards both on your turn and--if you add Looter--on your opponent's turn, Instant speed is a huge advantage. Gut Shot is also just one of the best burn spells in Standard because it's free and in Standard can take out so many important cards: Champion of the Parish, Delver of Secrets, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Birds of Paradise, and so on. They all die to Gut Shot. Past in Flames would be a great addition. All those cards you have like Incinerate or Arc Trail (without Flashback that is) suddenly can be played again, adding to the functionality of the deck. This might sound odd, but if you want this to actually be a "Control" deck, adding in two or three copies of Feeling of Dread would be a great card to have. You don't even need the White mana, just always discard it with Looting abilities and you'll always be able to cast it. The other staple-Standard-control card that would be a great card to add is Mana Leak. If you have Snapcaster it's fantastic, but even without it, late game if it's in your graveyard and you're trying to use Past in Flames you can counter their counter spells targeting your big spells (if that makes any sense, haha). So as for a TL;DR, I would say you should add this: 2-4x Merfolk Looter (depending on whether or not you can get a hold of Snapcaster Mage) 4x Snapcaster Mage 2x Feeling of Dread 3x Mana Leak 3x Gut Shot 1x Shock 1x Past in Flames Take out: 2x Misthollow Griffin - cool card, but is pretty useless as a four-drop. It really becomes important later in the game, and by that point having four copies is a bit overkill. 1x Chandra's Phoenix - again, great card. Four copies is a bit much I think, especially when you could have a card like Looter or Snapcaster. 2x Pillar of Flame - it's just not that great. It certainly has sideboard material, but in this deck there's really nothing about it that makes it better than Shock or Gut Shot. 1x Blasphemous Act - fantastic card, but when you're drawing a bunch of cards like in this deck, you don't need three. Two should be enough to make due. Again if you had a sideboard, I would say throwing one or two of these in there would be a great choice. 3-4x Desperate Ravings - This card can be great, but it's not half as good as Desperate Ravings. There are far better plays you can have on turn two. The last thing you want is to discard your Tibalt or an Incinerate. If you add Mana Leak then it's best to keep your lands untapped on turn two to see what your opponent does the next turn. If you add Feeling of Dread, you can tap their creatures after discarding it with Looting on turn one. 1-2x Incinerate - again, this is a great card, but there are better things you can be doing on turn two. Definitely keep a copy or two, but since it doesn't interact with your graveyard whatsoever, it isn't as important to this deck. Something along those lines would make this deck a lot better. Overall though, I absolutely love decks centered around Tibalt. Take a look at one of my decks if you get the chance, thanks.
What he said. And also, adding Feeling of Dread for board control could give you an excuse to add Seachrome Coast/Glacial Fortress/Clifftop Retreat, and then Moorland Haunt x2, that way, since you'll be Dredging quite a bit, you can just exile the Griffin from the gy and play it again. Once again, love the deck.
Trying to take all this post in. It's a lot to think about. I think going a lot with these suggestions tend to lean toward control. It was originally a tap-out control deck...Doesn't appear to be that anymore. Not really sure what to classify it as.
'Grats on getting top-decked!
what about reforge the soul to go with tibalt? that makes them take seven, POW!, to the face and devastation tide on their turn via miracle to give them even more for when you pop em on the next turn... FACE lol Feel free to check out my R/U deck n lemme know what you think. cheers! http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=335624
Need to get Reforge in. -3 Incinerate, -1 Blasphemous Act, -2 Pillar of Flame, -1 Chandra's Phoenix, +3 Volt Charge, +2 Merfolk Looter, +2 Geistflame.
No Mana Leak?
how about this you don't run mana leak and people will start to like you. COUNTER SPELLS SUCK!
PROPAGANDA! LIES! CONTROL FTW!
Theres two sides to this: either you think counterspells ruin the fun of playing spells or you think counterspells add another layer of complexity and surprise to the game. I dont like counterspells myself (aggro beatdown ftw) but i agree they do add that layer of complexity that makes this game interesting. Its just annoying its pirmarily in blue (i know colour wheel stuff but its still annoying to play against blue). However, 3x Mana leak will add a great deal of spontanity to this deck. Control decks are probably going to be your biggest problem, since they dont have any targets for your numerous burn spells and you dont have an answer to their huge titans aside from sweepers. Hold a mana leak for that frost titan so you can finish them off.
I'll have to think about the Mana Leaks. Suggestions for removal to be able to add in 2 or 3. Prob Blasphemous act x1 or 2, Not sure on what else? Maybe 1 x phoenix
in addition to the mana leaks, i would snapcaster mage (if it doesnt break your bank) and Merfolk Looter. The looter is a great way to dig through your library in addition to tibalt and can stop a lot of early swinger. Finally, a single Past in Flames is a beautiful way to end the game. With all the burn in your graveyard you can get a huge finish with a decent amount of mana. This is a link to MTG article about a similar deck: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/rc/192. Even if you dont like the main deck advice, a solid sideboard never goes amiss.
thats expensive
Blasphemous is STELLAR worldraep if you can pay for it. I think it's so much easier to fit in a tokenpoopen deck. Or a high-creature deck. howait. It counts THEIR things too. nvm. Prease look at my Delver Aggro. I'm running it in my first Tourney ever and i'm very nervous. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=274919
I would suggest Tamiy oin the deck. Tamiyo would work great with Tibalt, especially if you were able to go ultimate with her, then pull off Tibalt. I would aslo take out Misthollow griffen. I see the combo you have with Grim Lavamancer, but it isn't fully needed. Maybe like 2 should be fine.
No Tezzi's Gambit?
Alright, I'm going to say it.....Delver of Secrets? you have 21 instants and sorceries. But I understand if you don't want to make this a "Delver Deck". He would get a lot of damage through on a turn 2 flip backed up by all your removal, though. I really like the deck otherwise.
I like your ideas, I'm also in the midst of building a deck compatible with Tibalt. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=347711
Few things...I have tried Delver of Secrets. It's really good with Ponder. The goal of this deck is to maximize Tibalt's abilities. In order to do that you have to minimize the downside of his +1 in order to maximize him...if you can do that you are gold. Tamiyo is really good too but doesn't really interact in the deck at all. A lot of the the suggestions work great in U/R decks, not sure how many really interact with this deck.
While mana leak is an excellent card, it really is not all that well positioned in the current standard meta with all the caverns of souls around. You could consider silent departure to deal with problem creatures for a turn instead, as it synergizes well with tibalt, putting an extra card in their hand and having flashback. Also, maybe a burning vengeance or 2.
Can someone help with my ub control deck. It needs help. If you don't think so comment that it is good. Deck is: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=349204
Would Thunderous Wrath be a good card for this deck? With all the discard, if you pick it up early, then it's not an issue to get rid of it.