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I had a few ideas in my mind when NPH came out to speed up my KuldothaCry deck. Tell me what you all think. Also, woohoo #130!
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Marrow Shards= http://www.myfacewhen.com/389/ , but for standard it's awesome. I think, I've lost touch COMPLETELY with it.
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Marrow Shards is for the mirror match up. =] What do you thin of the deck though?
It's standard, I don't really know it it's good or not anymore. I honestly gave up on the format entirely. I'm giving up on extended after Alara rotates probably, I don't like Zendikar block, and somehow doubt I ever will. I really can't say, I just know extraction is possible in standard right now, and my friends run Tezzeret decks right now, why? because they actually made them from scratch.
Respect for your friends man. I'm obviously going to run Extraction in standard, but I'm also keeping this crazy S.O.B. on the side =P Oh, and Ethan, I tested some more, and the damage limit (averages) with Slag Fiend in extends out to 39, and it extends out to 41.3 with Furnace Scamp. Both numbers are staggering, but I think you (and I =P) can be happy with the evidence that the admittedly adorable Scamp is better. I will make a deck to abuse the crap out of Slag though...I pulled 3 of the bastards after all =/
just noticed the "oh ethan" part, lol. and yeah man, scamp is just so beastly. he's a steppe lynx that doesnt require a land drop!
Hmm. slag fiend seems weak, to be honest. sure, it's a good late game, but it's situational, and most often I wouldn't want to draw into it in a tight spot. theres this red 1 drop, that if it deals combat damage you can sac it to hit them for 3, i think that'd benifit you more so, seeing how you can hit them for 4 turn 2. like a steppe lynx for red, almost ;P im a huge fan of the souleater, he just rapes if they let an attack go through. but besides that, looks sweet man! hows playtesting going for you so far?
Playtesting is outrageous. Furnace Scamp wasn't as impressive in testing as you'd think, he was good, great even, but so far I've been liking Slag Fiend more. Slag Fiend can actually get really big, really fast, and is a "give or take" threat as well. I'm still considering them both heavily, and if further testing pushes back on the side of Scamp, I'll use him. =] This deck either way is stupid fast though. It can win turn 2 way more often than should be allowed =P
can you tell me which plays could lead to that though? people down at my fnm try and run kuldotha... but they suck lol
Lead to what? Sorry, I'm not very "with it" today =P
haha, no worries :P I mean what plays could lead to a turn 2 victory?
Opening hand: Ornithopter, Mountain, Mox Opal, Signal Pest, Kuldotha Rebirth, Goblin Bushwhacker, Arid Mesa. Turn 1: Play Ornithopter, Mountain, Mox Opal. Tap Mountain to play Signal Pest. Now with metalcraft tap Mox Opal to play Kuldotha Rebirth...Sac the Ornithopter and put in 3 goblin tokens (1/1's). Turn 2: Draw another Signal Pest. Play and use Arid Mesa for a Mountain (duh). Tap a Mountain to play the second Signal Pest. With metalcraft active again tap the second Mountain and the Mox Opal to play Goblin Bushwhacker kicked. Signal Pests each become 2/1's (Goblin Bushwhacker + Battle Cry) Goblin Tokens all become 4/1's (Goblin Bushwhacker + both Battle Cry[s]) Goblin Bushwhacker becomes a 4/1 as well (Its own ability + both Battle Cry[s]) 2 x 2 = 4 (Pests) 4 x 3 = 12 (Tokens) 4 x 1 = 4 (Bushwhacker) 4 + 12 + 4 = 20 ```````````````````````````````````````` Opening Hand: Mountain, Signal Pest, Rebirth, Rebirth, Opal, Opal, Memnite - Play Signal Pest with Mountain, drop Opal and Memnite. Tap Opal for Rebirth (sacing Opal) and play next Opal and repeat. You now have 7 1/1 and a Pest. Draw: Contested War Zone Play War Zone and activate upon attack with everything You now are attacking with 22 power on the board across 8 bodies Two very likely scenarios for you by the way. If you look, there's a bunch of other ways that those scenarios could happen =]
...that's pretty ridiculous. due to fnms, I find the idea of kuldotha anything has been slightly disregarded, due to the number of new players immediately trying to pilot the deck. but there's no doubt that if someone could actually handle the deck, it would prove to be more than a threat.
That is so aggrosentric it is scary love it!!! I would love to see this deck play one of the common B/G poison and see their face in disbelief when you kill them off t2. (even if they have the perfect poisen hand going) I heard some of the better players at FNM bashing the kuldotha idea saying it would show back up but they could easely shut it down with sideboard cards and it would die off again but..... I see this deck winning way more than not even with a good sideboard for a aggro red.
My sideboard is designed to combat the most likely sideboard actions of my opponents, so a game against a good opponent will go like so: match 1: I completely trash them. They sideboard. match 2: Their sideboard allows them to juuuust barely squeak one by. I sideboard against their sideboarding. match 3: Since their sideboard is counteracted, they are again vulnerable, and get trashed again. This deck is for tourney play, and I more than expect it to do well.
Ok this is just ridiculously good man!
Pretty good KRed deck mate. It's very different from my GDW, but... :) I think scamp is too underwhelming. He seems good, but just one spell/blocker and he is useless. I would trade him for Flayer Husk, which is more resilient, and ups ur artifact count which I think is a little low for running Mox. Souleatter is just BAD in this kind of deck... How much spare mana do u think u will have? I would drop it for a fourth Husk and a fourth Goblin Guide... U must be insane to have only 3....
soul eater doesn't require mana, that's the thing that makes him so good. lets say you've weakened your opponent, and they let and attack by him slide. you can pump you own life into him, to boost him up and take out your opponent. where this deck is so fast they should be weakened to a point where your life will be able to take off 12 points if it means shooting them for an extra 6.
The power behind Scamp is that the opponent will be swarmed with threats, almost always too many to block them all. They will have to make difficult decisions about who to block. If they block Scamp, so what? they'll let another threat through. He's mostly there as a threat that has to be dealt with, because unblocked, he STARTS as a 4 damage threat. As Ethan explained, Souleater has frickin' phyrexian firebreathing! That's just unreal. As for the artifacts available, I have never had a problem with not having enough to be honest, even with my older version which actually had even less.
Nice. first draw, i got a turm 2 win.
=] It's a thing of beauty isn't it?
SureWhyNot Can you check out my standard tournament deck, I need advice on it. http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=185319 Also how do you get a picture for your profile?
Hey, guess who just got pushed onto the front page? :P
this is quite a satisfying mana curve. overall, this looks like a crazy good deck. but could you explain the usage of spikeshot? it seems a little slow for the deck, though i can understand using it as a backup if they manage to set up a defence. i was also wondering why you dont have goblin wardriver. he seems like quite a good choice for this deck. if i'm wrong, could you explain why? Thanks, and great deck!
See.... This is a prime example of why I hate red decks. There just annoying as hell to play against, but I personally never get much joy out of runnning them myself. Ugh. Stupid red decks... haha. But to be serious, it looks like a super stupid (in a good, I don't want to play against it kind of way), super fast, super annoying, and fairly consistent deck. The most important thing there is the consistency which is incredible to me. The best way it seems to beat KRed decks in the past has half the time just been to let them beat themselves as they mulligan, play a hand and you stop their one major turn and they lose due to having nothing left. This deck looks to be a bit more consistent and even has a bit of "late game" play in it (aka, past turns 3 and 4). Due to the more volatile nature of the deck, I'd maybe look at changing the sideboard much more. What I mean is making it transformational and swapping out cards to make it more of a "big red" type of deck with Koth's and Hero of Oxid Ridge. This will give it a bit more lategame staying power once they've boarded in plenty to stop the initial onslaught. Another thing to consider is Kor Firewalker who tears these decks apart if left alone long enough. I'd maybe make sure you can deal with this guy in some way after sideboarding. Other than that, looks annoyingly good.;) Well done. Just don't run it against me ok?;)
Thanks man. @BrianBell: Spikeshot is powerful as way to kill off CAW and Valakut, and can also be used as a smack to the noggin after a beef-up. Sideboarded with the Collar makes him an excellent removal tool as well. also @BrianBell: Wardriver is just way too slow. He takes 2 red, which is turn 1 or 2 and that translates to him being usable turn 2 or 3. If he had haste, it would probably be a different story, but as it stands, the best 2 drop in my deck is Bushwhacker. Souleater is also 2 mana and has the same issues, but the ability to dump life into him to slaughter the opponent makes him worth using. @Edna: All of the more effective SB options in the current tourney-meta are countered by my SB. This means I've won the SB war, which is an essential part of tourney play. In a previous post I show this. Kor Firewalker on average will shorten a RDW's damage limit by about 9 or so. That's pretty bad, yeah, but my deck averages a damage limit of 41.3! Damage limit is the amount of damage the opponent has to survive before a RDW becomes drastically less effective. All RDW's have a damage limit, but this is the highest I've ever seen outside of Vintage. So even with a Kor Firewalker in the picture, I'm in a lethal damage limit by A LOT. It would actually take them having 3 Kor Firewalkers out at once to drop my damage limit enough to give me problems. Also bear in mind that Kor Firewalker takes two white to play. This means CAW would have to rush him out, and thus neglect them their Hawks or Stoneforge. At best, they'll play him on turn 2 in a panic. Even if their turn 2 is before mine, they'll have lost.
Interesting... Please explain more about this damage limit deal... How do you measure your damage limit? I feel like this deck would have a very hard time dealing 41 damage by turn 4 when your opponent can DoJ the board, combo off with Splinter Twin, or Pyroclasm, Slagstorm, etc. 20, maybe, but 41? I'm thinking not. I think you're seriously underrating the power Kor Firewalker has against red decks. It's not hard to imagine Caw-Blade to rush it out on turn two at all and when they do, it WILL mean trouble for you. It means you can't attack nearly as effectively, your burn almost sucks, and they're that much more likely to hit their Jace, DoJ, Gideon, or w/e they need. Idk man. I need more explaining about this damage limit before I can fully agree with you. I did do a few sample hands (about 7 or 8) and never did see a turn two kill, or even turn 3 for that matter.:/
You take the total damage dealt by the time that you are topdecking and also are effectively matched up attacker to blocker. When you do that, the average is 41.3 that's what I got at least. I won't deny that Kor Firewalker is a problem, it is. It's just that in practice, I've found that the effect is manageable enough that my damage limit isn't crippled to the point that I need to worry as much as you'd think. The problem with a lot of older RDW designs is that they had damage limits averaging about...28-31 Which was pretty good, but they could easily have their limits dropped down to non-lethal (below 20) levels. This is why Legacy Goblins is so beastly. They have damage limits around like...45-50, sometimes even higher! I forgot to mention this before when I said "highest I've ever seen outside of Vintage" ...I had a brain fart and forgot about Legacy =P
Hey first off great deck! I also have a question, u were talking about RDW's, how can u most accurately find that for a deck? Do u just do alot of test/proxy playing and do an average from that? Or is there some other way?
very nice not the biggest fan of red but i do have to give kuldotha their due respect it is annoying and extremely quick. check out my extracting malice and biowarfare decks rate and comment. how does the spikeshot do for you in the deck?
Way to bring it back for mono red, man. It's nice to see someone build one correctly. I'm new to the site, but very active... if you follow me I'll do the same. This goes for all who read this.
would you try and fit in some singleton urabrasks or molten steel dragon? they could have some late game punch you might need, especially for game 3
Moltensteel dragon = swing for 16 the turn after it comes out, assuming you played it for 4 and 4 life (pay 14 life for +7, tap 5 mana for +5 = 4+7+5= 16) Definitely put this in as a finisher if they last to turn 5.
I signed up just to like and say how awesome this deck is! Keep up the great work!
These kinds of decks are scary fast. However they still are vulnerable to marrow shards, mental missteps, pyroclasm, and slagstorm. That being said: Have you considered running Hero of Oxid Ridge?
Shards and MM are counteracted by my own copies, slagstorm is often too slow, and pyroclasm...yeah, it's something to be concerned with, but hasn't been much of an issue as of late =/ And actually, yes, I have. I use the hero in my older version of KuldothaCry =P
I also have seen Kuldotha Phoenix run well in this style. Also Koth seems to fit in well. However those cards do provide dead drops in the early game so I guess it is what you are going for in the deck.
You also should run priests of urabrask because the three mana they give you can combo into a bushwacker or a hero or another priest or pretty much anything in your deck.
you may consider adding 4x teetering peaks and taking our 2x arid messa and scalding tarn. i play a warcry deck similar to this and they are a wonderful drop to use with your kdultha token attacks
I also used to run teetering peeks, but is was costly to miss mana like that. For one maountain, I would much rather play a Signal Pest, because it would be better in the long run.
what do you think oh postmortem lunge? i use it in my monored deck with immolating souleater/kiln fiend +assault strobe..it does work great for me
oh yeah here is the link please check it out and tell me what you think http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=186669
I am sure it has been discussed, but what about a singleton Hero of Oxidda Ridge? It is not something you would want prior to turn 4, however, everyonce an a while i can see you slaming him down turn 4 for a surprise win. Just a thought. Probably put spikeshot elders in board (they are not aggro enough for a game 1), then put in +1 Chieftain/Guide/Scamp and +1 Hero of Oxxida Ridge. Nice deck other than that. BTW i try to stay away from red decks, but i actually like playing against them. Its a do anything you can to live till turn 4 and if you can, its as easy as stabilize/win. :)
awesome!!! Ive got a very similar deck. Im still deliberating over goblin guide tho, 1r for a 2/2 haste (great) but giving the opponent the ability to look at top card and especially its a land straight to hand so they can do a free draw (technically) next turn. but otherwise from that its awesome!
Goblin Guide's "penalty" is actually a bonus in my opinion. Giving your opponent the occasional land doesn't matter to a deck that looks at turn 3 as "late game". Also, being able to see the top card of your opponent's library is a biiiiig help.
surewhynot is definitely rite, i've won games with guide! decks like this aren't very worried with what the other players draw in the first 2-3 turns the real problem is posed by what they have in their hands to start with. and knowing what they are going to draw is huge help like surewhynot said, for instance, what if you see a mental misstep as their next card? now you dont carelessly play your kuldotha rebirth because you know they can counter it. surewhynot! would you mind taking a look at my QUIT Torporing yourself! deck? i think you'll really enjoy the idea behind it :) http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=188033
maybe swap memnite for ornithopter, and if you want the flying, have you considered skinwing?
love furnace scamp only better one drop is guide this deck is fast and strong and has enough burn that if he wipes your board you should still beable to win plz comment on my deck Deck link: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=188541
You are overestimating the likelihood of drawing a hand that can win turn 2.(Not at all likely.) And totally overestimating how good your sideboard is against anything that kills your creatures like pyroclasm and black suns zenith.
Surewhynot, what was the name of your friend's deck that was a green 10 land deck? I was blown away by the concept! Also, I have no idea how to build a sideboard. Any suggestions for mine: "The Rapture"-- angel deck.
By the way--- I am astounded by a 3rd or 4th turn "late game" deck! Simply amazing. How could some one stand up to this without the sideboard battle you mentioned in the earlier remarks?
They can't, that's the point =P I'll give your deck a look, consider it on my list. And the deck is called "Bumf**k" and my buddy's account name is DoTheWumpus, everyone at our shop just calls him Wumps. (He's a wumpus IRL =P)
hey guys i need some help here =). i tried to build a good elf deck without rare cards and as cheap as possible but still playable ^^. Here is the result : http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=190001 I think that it would work quite well but before i buy the cards i would like to here some opinions =)
I never seen Kuldotha Red done like this before, however i like the souleater and the sideboard editions to the line. but why only 2 Gob Guides?
Well I have 3 of them actually, but for some reason, 4 of them just never worked as well. =/
I've loved Kuldotha Rebirth, from the moment I opened my first one I had big plans for it. Have you thought about Gitaxian Probe? It let's you scope out their opening hand and thin your library for a mere 2 life. I was wondering if you could check out a deck of mine, it's a storm deck and I know you can pick those apart pretty well from what I've read. I'm new to pretty much anything beyond standard and I could use your input on my vintage(or legacy if I swap 3 cards) Turn 1 Gobwin deck.
What do you do if they drop a marrow shards? Leaving you with no creatures, no hand.
Mental Misstep in the SB man. It's brutal though, so I'm glad I have MM to stop it, otherwise yeah, it sucks...
Hey there (Just noticed by sheer coincidence you made this on my birthday this year! :D) Been looking through your decks and you seem like a solid deck builder, i'm personally new to this and wondered if you'd give my attempt at a Goblin deck a look? I used about 10-15 Goblin decks as examples when making it, taking into consideration the availability of the cards to me and the pricings etc. Would be great if you could help me out in any way! Thanks! Deck link - http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=204892
You have an amazing deck on your hands here!!! I'm going to my first legacy tournament in June & thought that I may play something like this. I tried with my http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=296729 deck but it failed in the mini competition my friends had.