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Because I can. And because I'm having success with my Legacy list, but mostly because I can.
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bleh, i hate fish. as a deck, as an animal, and as food. this one has a lot more control elements to it, though. with all that countering being done, maybe lullmage mentor would not be such a bad idea?
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Despite what this might suggest, I too hate fish. Not as a food though, I love me some seafood. Sushi is especially great, but that's a rare occasion. I considered Lullmage Mentor for a while, but I figure it's safer to play it like Legacy right now, and just Lord the living hell out of this deck. Good to see you're still kicking around Wumpus, and may you continue in your magic conquest of the great white buffalo.
That was rather civil considering Wumps' loathing of all things blue aggro... I love me some seafood too, and may I say, I make one HELL of a lobster bisque =]
Damn it man, I just ate, and the first thing I see on the vault is you talking about lobster bisque? Not cool. I'm trying to get some Indian cuisine under my belt, chiefly Gujarati kadhi, paratha, and khichdi. Only Indian food could make me eat a vegetarian meal. And I didn't know he had special hate for blue aggro, I thought he just hated blue in general.
Well, yes, but blue aggro is a bastardization of aggro and the color pie in his eyes. To some degree, I have to agree with him =/
I wouldn't quite call it a bastardization of the colour pie, but that definitely is true of aggro. If Fish ever becomes a more potent swarm than Goblins, I will have lost a little faith in Wizards, but as of now the main strength of it is counters. If Goblins could run counters like Legacy Fish, I'd be sincerely concerned about the threat of it dominating the meta. Imagine having all that mana denial, with the threat of a red Daze backing it up, or Force of Will, and then there's the innate threat Goblins still present. Enough of that "what-if?" though, I got two friends to agree to try Vintage!(proxy decks, but same for me) http://alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/large/neutral-gentlemen-l.png I'm going to play the Hermit Druid deck, and I think one of them is going to try his hand at Stax. The other is a bit of a mystery, he's our resident green guy, so I'm kind of lost. I'm hoping this becomes a regular thing if it turns out well, I'd be able to build in an environment I'm more comfortable in than Standard, and they'd get a taste of the hell/heaven I go through designing for eternal formats.
That's great dude. But let me remind you, friends don't let friends play Glue/Elmer Stax. And yeah, I agree that wizards has done a good job so far with making blue aggro more about tricks and control. I personally like it when the color pie is muddled up a little, so long as the way it's done stays true to the color overall. For example, red control comes in the form of things like kazuul, vent sentinel, and rage nimbus. It's control, but with a violent, head-strong method. I will say I'm surprised your friends jumped over legacy and straight into vintage. That'd be like teaching a kid to read by handing the The Odyssey. Also, how are they with EDH?
But... I play Glue Stax. I too think they've done a good job, but sometimes the lord superiority is excessive. I don't think I like it when the colour pie is actually muddled, but so much that I like it when it's using the normal resources with different applications. And to me red control has always been Moon effects, pingers, and mana denial. Basically Dragon Stompy, but with less focus on the aggro. They've tinkered with Legacy before, but something about being able to rationalize paying the cost of a deck eventually keeps them from doing proxy tests. If they saved their money for just MtG, they know they could make tournament quality decks for Legacy, but they find their other pursuits more deserving of that cost. They're pretty good with EDH, they design for the format better than me, but it's just not something we can stand to play so often. And I didn't learn to read by getting handed The Odyssey, but I did learn how to read so I could learn physics, since it was explained to me as the way the universe works. I try and keep up as much as I can, but studying quantum physics in your spare time is not the optimal way for it.
Oh right...you do play glue e_e I can't help but have a deep hatred of Glue...vintage Glue/Elmer Stax is the very reason that vintage Extraction doesn't exist. And that's sort of what I meant, using the strengths of a color in new/interesting ways. ...That last cluster of metaphors gave me a headache hahaha.
I don't know why, but it seems to be a thing for Reanimator players to at least experiment with Glue if they try Vintage. It just happens. Also that face makes me think of the hypno-toad, kudos. I think everybody hates Glue, it pisses off a lot of people. Making Vintage Extraction nigh impossible certainly just adds another layer of rage, I'd rather like to make a functional Extraction build in Vintage. Ah, I was confused. It was kind of a wall of text, didn't quite work out. Basically I learned how to read so I could learn physics, I was a strange kid. But hey, it worked for me.
I built a Vintage Extraction about a year ago on proxies, and it works wonderfully. The problem is it has about a 10-90 matchup against Glue, and it also has trouble against Oath, believe it or not. Finally, it plays so much like a combo deck versus true Extraction that I just couldn't bring myself to keep playing it =[
Oh, I believe it about Oath, if you'll recall I cast my hand at playing a Vintage Extraction design as well. I tried a Remora build of it at one point, but all that really did was put it on autopilot against most decks :/ I can't remember the counter suite I used, but it was rather intensive, something like 4 FoW 4 MM 2 Spell Pierce 2 Mindbreaks... It worked out rather nicely, but I still folded over to Glue in a terrible way.
Hmm.. 19 lands, and 8 are colorless sources? Seems realllllly ballsy, man. I wouldn't drop below 21 if you expect to play snapcaster and condescend realistically. I mean, yes, you have silvergil, and condescend for 1 is still okay, but if you want any serious tempo I think you're going to want to sit comfortably on 4 lands. Yes, yes, you have vial, and I mean, vial at 2 is still pretty sweet, but if I were you, I'd just run 21 lands and pack like 6 fetches. I also wouldn't go above 6 colorless sources, even with the vials, it's just too ballsy when you're depending on double blue on occasion and have close to little filter. You have a lottt of counter magic, how do you find that? I'd honestly consider dropping a little bit. Normally, a counter suite I enjoy is 3 pierce, 2 leak, 2 spellsnare. This way, you can pack some tempo! Vapor snag is honestly so good in modern right now, and into the roil could be really cool in the form of temporary removal. I agree, the swarm plan just gets there half of the time, but if somebody resolves a wurmcoil, you're in rough shape. Out of the board, I definitely think you need some graveyard hate, and some artifact hate, actually. I can't exactly think of the tier decks at the moment, but a trinket mage package could actually be sweet for this deck. 2 mage, 1 needle 1 relic 1 grafdigger's cage- that would be solid, either way it's like you're packing 3 of whatever one you bring it, and running 21 lands would also seriously help that out. on the counter note, again, you run 4 cursecatcher, I'd seriously consider some board-state removal, i.e. into the roil. :O either way, some things to consider! Modern's my pet format at the moment.. :'D
It's worked out surprisingly well actually, but I do agree that it needs more. I just went with this landbase since it's the closest mirror to Legacy Fish, and that's basically the main idea behind me trying this at all. I honestly can't bring myself to go lower than eight counters, my counter suite being this high is half of why I can win games. I DO like the idea of playing Vapor Snag though, and the suite you suggest, while a little light for my tastes, is really good. Perhaps 3 Spell Pierce, 3 Mana Leak, 2 Spell Snare, and 3 Snag? Definitely have to tinker around with the idea of a Trinket Mage package, I love it in Legacy, so why not Modern? Cursecatcher is a boss. If I take them out, I'd either have to go with Cosi's Trickster, or Tideshaper Mystic. I need a one drop fish, or it just doesn't flow right. Thanks for the ideas Ethan, they're rather interesting, and I'm going to tinker some today probably. Modern is a fun format, but I still wish they'd take a few cards off the banned list :|
Oh no, don't drop cursecatcher! He's a definite 4 of, I just meant that with 4 cursecatcher, you don't need as heavy of a counter suite :P And I like the arrangement now, man :) Snag is a ridiculous tempo card, and especially with snapcaster mage. ...don't get me started on the ban list, hahaha, I WANT IS BITTER BLOSSOM, DAMN IT
Okay, I was questioning you sanity. I'd like to keep it alongside at least eight counters, it's won me games. This has gone through light testing post changes, but I'm thoroughly pleased with how it's shaped up. I dub thee, sage of Modern! I want almost all of the banned list. I'm still pissed about GSZ and Punishing Fire more than anything, my four colour control was kicking ass!
It looks pretty solid, man. I'd still try for a 21st land with a few fetches, but thats just me :O And awh shux, makin' me blush <3 hahaha, thank you! It's the only format I really play atm, other than standard here and there. And the card out of the ban list I'd reallllly enjoy is probably mental misstep. all of my decks would start with 4x mental misstep, but bitterblossom is still a close second. Punishing fire was sweet, but it was such a pain in the ass oh my god, it needed to go hahaha
Fetches in Fish is pointless dude, on the math the deck thinning is inconsequential, and it's loss of life with no reason since it's mono-blue. I only play them in my Legacy versions for an occasional black splash. I'm not trying to sound like an ass, but I've heard that suggestion so many times, I've built up this as a default response. Dude, seriously, you keep up with this and build good decks. It was just you and Joe doing so for Modern mostly, but he's gone it seems, and you've helped me more than anybody else for it. You earned it, at least I'mma call you that anyway. Mental Misstep in Vintage is my crack, I always want it in my hand. I'm pretty sure that's why it's banned in both Modern and Legacy. When Punishing Fire got banned was when I stopped really tracking things so much, the deck I had worked so hard to make was that four colour control, and it was beautiful.
Why thank you :) I try my best, haha! I actually just uploaded a sweeeet list I played against online! It needs a few tweaks, but it's definitely a new type of list, or rather, one I've yet to come across in times previous to today. Andddd on the fetchland note, I know the mathematical probability is low, but I just enjoy them :') But on that note.. why not splash another color, anyways? :O It could give you some serious sideboard tech, with each of the other 4 colors giving solid sb options. Personally, I feel white could be cool. Red could give you some extra reach, green... meh, it's green, you get goyf!! (joke), and in black you get amazing spot removal and hand disruption. Clearly, I am biased, but I think a splash could be worth it, I mean, it's not like it's hard to pull off.. right? Either way, something, again, to tinker with! And I actually remember you talking to me about you 4c when modern first came about... how I miss my luminarch ascension deck. It was so bad.. but when it went off, it went OFF hahaha
It would be easy to splash, but it'd make the deck have some suicidal tendencies, since Fish needs dual typed lands only because of the heavy occurrence of blue mana symbols that HAVE to be in the deck. And one of the reasons this deck is doing me so well is that it's not really a design that hurts itself, and that it has such a strong landbase. Dismember being a notable exclusion. The SB tech I'd probably wind up going with would be three copies of Inquisition of Kozilek(I just need to hurt red after all), and go down to three Dismembers. Something like 2 Trinket Mage 1 Cage 1 Pithing Needle 3 Dismember 3 IoK 3 Flashfreeze 2 Steel Sabotage It was beautiful man, I beat TwelvePost, UR Combo, and Zoo. It was basically a deck around establishing a tech advantage, and somehow it worked. Luminarch Ascension is fun, and you're right, if it goes off, it goes off on an extreme level.
I soooo must show this to my friend, he played Merfolk in Lorwyn / Shadowmoor while I played elves. Back then our decks where equal, just depended on who got their lifegain out first :p But he stopped playing Magic for a while and I carried on, now my elf decks (both versions) obliterate his Merfolk. What I'm saying is thank you for a good fish build that I can (hopefully) convince my friend to update to / use ideas from :D
Elves vs Fish is a weird MU, I'm never sure who to root for. I'd much rather just them use ideas, because this is nice and all, but it's still a bit rough. I don't want to be held accountable for any lost games just yet :P
I'd probably only use this deck to prove a point - fish can be stupidly fast and evil :p
Ah, if you want to do that I'd suggest the Legacy list. It's just as fast, but it's easily twice as evil between the Stifles, Wastelands in place of Ghost Quarter, and the Standstills. It doesn't win because it's necessarily good, but that other decks don't know what to do.
Really like this. I also have a merfolk deck which runs 2 Jitte and and around 2 Standstills. Although that only give me 5 counter spells and 3 creature returns, but it really help a lot in my games. This kind of deck would always leave your hand almost empty around your 4th-5th turn because of it's speed. Standstill really helped a lot at those times. And Jitte, OH I LOVE JITTE! Is really good in board control and additional pumps. Might be good with the number of your colorless mana resources.
Forgot to mention that Stanstill is kinda' lacking when you cast it while your opponent is at the upperhand. I remembered casting it against a stompy when I thought I could easily swarm him. But he didn't cast no spells and I have no choice but to block his creatures until I lose my army and had no choice but to cast a spell. I ended up shouting: "FFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Y U NO CAST!!!!!" A couple of Silvergill Adept wouldn't hurt too btw, the free draw card is always good. Sower of Temptation (yes, not a merfolk) is really a good sideboard. There are just those times when the creatures of your opponents is much stronger that you couldn't pull the momentum to your side. That faerie helps a lot at those times.
I run 3 Standstills MD and a Jitte in the board in my Legacy version(it's labeled Good News Everyone, if you care to check it out), and I have to say that it works out amazingly well for me. I'd LOVE to be able to play Standstill in every Fish deck I play, or hell, Gush would do me just as well for me. Jitte would be awesome for me, but sadly it's banned in Modern. It gives certain aggro decks an insane amount of power for how they're shaping the format, so they figured it'd be best to ban it right off, instead of dealing with people having Jitte wars.
And yeah, Standstill is a bit lackluster if you try and stick it when your opponent is at a good position. I've seen a lot of players lose games because they played Standstill at the wrong time. I currently play a full playset of Silvergil in both versions of Fish I play. Sower of Temptation is something I've toyed around with, but I figure if I'm going to be playing a faerie, it's going to be Vendilion Clique, or Spellstutter. I've used all three of them at least once, not at the same time mind you, and the one I actually liked the best was Spellstutter.
Now that IS fishy... This may really sound a little old but.. Can I tell you that YOU'RE AWESOME!!! again? Keep it up man! Really love to share thoughts with you! By the way, I think I saw you in front page in 3.... 2...
Very nice and inexpensive control! It makes me miss my fish deck. I made a human G/U control deck recently. Let me know what you think: http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=366812
Fun deck, with all the merfolk that give islandwalk it couldnt hurt just to put 1 or 2 stormtide leviathans in. If you ever get to play him, provided you're not facing a flying deck, you'll be the only one attacking and no one could block any of your creatures. Just a suggestion =p
Swap the Kira and the Images between side and mainboard
Is Lord of Atlantis legal in modern? I googled it and one site said it was, and another site said it wasn't, and then I looked up the sets it was in and it wasn't in the list on the mtg website thats legal for modern. or maybe i'm blind, but i'm confused now.
Woah, leave for most of the day, and my Fish winds up on the front page. Neat. I'll be checking your deck in the morning, kind of just watching some Eddsworld before sleep. And the game doesn't really go on long enough for Stormtide to be feasiable for this deck. I've got the mana that I could potentially play it eventually, but I'm not going to be able to do so realistically, especially the way people either win or lose against this before that point. Kira is pretty great game one, I'd see the reasons behind playing Phantasmal Image main, but Kira is more important to me in game one. Lord of Atlantis is legal in Modern, it was reprinted in the Time Spiral block. If you're ever unsure of the legality of a card, I'd suggest checking the official MtG Gatherer.
I figured that much for stormtide, mostly was enjoying the image of having him out with a bunch of merfolk and lord of Atlantis or master of the pearl trident haha
Yeah, it'd be AMAZING to have that kind of command over the battlefield. Nothing quite says "to hell with your day" like a swarm that you can't block, or try and race :D
bribery for lulz and you get to see the entire opponents deck
For a while Bribery was a rather critical part of my sideboards for Modern, but mostly due to TwelvePost. I don't really see any reason to play it now other than for laughs, swarm strategy works efficiently enough when backed by counters right now for my tastes. Even if Tron becomes a thing I'm already running a playset of Ghost Quarter.
Blue... is a douche. Plain and simple. This is a fantastic deck and I love me some Bribery too... but it's understandable if ya don't use it; even if it's just a fun ass card.
Yeah, blue is a douche, but that's why I love it lol. Thanks man, I've put more time working out this deck than I have any in a good while, so I'm glad you like it. And Bribery is fun and all, but it's like I said above, I already have more efficient answers right now. I'd not mind seeing a deck that made me play it again though, Bribery is one of the most hilarious cards printed. Also, can't wait for you guys to get the store up and running, I want to buy the album dang it >_<
I really don't think you need 4 dismember board. Yeah, they're good, but they're still 4 damage to the dome if you cast them. Honestly, splashing white might just be worth it, if you plan on taking 16 if you want to realistically cast those 4 dismembers. A single hallowed fountain would do. :O
Truth be told I've not even been using them that often, I swarm fast enough to deal with most things, and I have Snags for what I can't. A white splash wouldn't be that bad, it'd let me go down to three pieces of removal, and add a Crypt for added hate. I'll have to test around. Probably starting with a 7 island style landbase, then going to 5 with Seachhrome as the dual. I've been busty lately, and when I have had free time I've been playing some simplistic game called Vanguard, and it's actually pretty fun. Thanks for the advice Ethan, I've been wanting a reason to tinker around!
Lately I've been working on U/R Delver tempo, with a green source just for ancient grudge flashback, and my god, now I can see why you run so many counterspells. If I have a turn one play, the only thing I want left in my hand are counterspells hahaha. I run 10... :')