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This is my attempt at a competitive fringe modern deck. White knights always seemed strong to me so I threw this together. I have had good luck so far. I took it to top 8 at a local modern event, only losing to splinter twin. It took down tron in the swiss which ending up winning the whole event. Let me know what you think!
Hoping to have a turn 1 vial or student of warfare. Either with 2 lands and it is a keeper. From there game 1 is very straightforward. Drop creatures and hit opponent in the face.Depending on the matchup the sideboard changes dramatically, but there seems to be something in there for all the big matchups.There is a big PTQ in 3 weeks, any advise is welcome!
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Took this deck to a local modern event.Round 1: 2-1 vs a deck that made you draw cards and punished you for having 7 or more in hand.Round 2: 2-0 vs affinity(granted this was a generally poor version of affinity, but affinity none the less)Round 3: 2-1 vs. tron. This tron deck ending up winning the whole event.Round 4: me and my opponent drew into the top 8.Top8: 1-2 vs. splinter twin. He managed to combo out on turn 4 games 1 and 3. Both of those games I had the next turn win, but never the less, I lost. Not bad for my first decent sized event with a mono white deck in modern!Any suggestions would be great! Thanks!
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Wouldn't Honor the pure be better than spear?
I have thought about it. I have a ton of stuff for the 2 drop spot. I feel like spear earns it's merit in the long game vs control where I can kill the celestial colonnade after they have removed everything on my board. Lol. Maybe it's just the local meta though.
See but even on turn three you can play an honor and a 1 drop.
The only 1 drop I play is student of warfare.
Path? Brave?It lets you hold up removal and protection for your creatures:P I dunno I feel its smart.
maybe you are on to something there. bit PTQ here, first local one in quite some time. I sure hope I have a few laying around. lol.
They aren't that expensive, just trying to help out have you tested with it or are you just going off what I am saying.
I have not tested yet. I plan on play testing tonight and tomorrow online before the PTQ on Saturday. If they merit the change it will happen. Always have to adjust for the meta in your area, that is why the spears are in there to begin with. If they bring about a quicker win then they will be in for sure.I appreciate all the feedback!
Np thats why we post on here, and well any competitive magic player should enjoy helping people get into the enternal formats as they are the life of this game.Gl, and GL at the PTQ
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-deck-creation/221770-modern-knightsI don't know if you have been using this as a reference but i find you get a lot of useful info/testing info out of reading the posts from Salvation.You get to see how the deck evolves and what its worst match ups are.Do you know what your meta looks like? or just going in blind?
Instead of running Pithing needle you should run 2x Stony silence(if you have affinity in the meta, It is also great vs U/W or Mono U tron.)I would also run 2-3 Ghost quarters to help vs tron and UWR.
My meta runs a little bit of everything it seems. I have only been playing modern for the last couple months. I see a lot of Tron, a little affinity, pod is kind of popular - in one form or another, splinter twin is there.Tron is probably my easiest matchup - have yet to lose to it. Tron cannot keep pace with the army, and let me tell you they get very upset when you path any of there big dudes. lol.Splinter Twin is my worst matchup so far - have yet to beat it. I don't know how they can combo off every game! lol. I have updated my sideboard to hopefully help against the combo with the otherworldly journey.I know mono white knights sounds lame, but it has put up a real fight with the big decks in the format. I think it is partially due to nobody plays this deck competitively so nobody has a great sideboard for it.
Yeah haha, wurmcoil isn't scary if you aren't actually killing it:p You do know to kill their creatures in response to them casting twin on a creature right? not just kill their creatures as they come? Well it is a fringe deck in modern, it isn't an unheard of thing.
Absolutely, kill the pestermite in response to twin. They just always seem to get spellskite out first. sneaky buggers. lol
PTQ update:Round 1: 2-0 vs America control - it was not the best version I have seen, not very competitive matchup. I aggroed normally round 1, round 2 I got the vial out turn 1 and it was over from there.Round 2: 1-2 vs America control - it did what it was supposed to do, not let me do anything band then kill me.Round 3: 2-1 vs Splinter Twin - I aggroed quick and won, game 2 he kiki jiki'd me with pestermite ftw, game 3 he got no lands after a mull to 5.Round 4: 2-0 vs pod - poor construction of pod, he was somehow 2-1 at this point and I don't know how, very quick and easy.Round 5: 1-2 vs pod - this was the first place player in the tourney, almost had him. Game 1 I came out swinging and won convincingly. Game 2 he way out paced me. Game 3 I had removal for days, but he had creatures for weeks...Round 6: 0-2 vs infectDropped.It was fun and a great learning experience!
Well you beat twin which was what you were worried about, how did your sb look?
Sideboard was very good against twin. America control with a good player at the helm is difficult as is pod. I was a bit overwhelmed when playing the pod deck that I lost to, I did not board in the wrath of god for game 3 which was probably the biggest mistake of the day. All in all it was a good day. I also now know how to play against infect, lol.
Update:+ 3 Cavern of Souls - 1 mutavault, -2 plains+ 1 Heliod, God of the Sun - 1 Knight of the MeadowgrainI am deadest on making a tribal deck compete with the tier 1 decks out there. I have had pretty good success so far, I think these little tweaks are what is going to help me get to where I want to be.Any advice is always welcome! Thank you in advance!
Have you tryed Elspeth in the maindeck yet? or do you just board her in?Also what happend to the 4th Vial?:P
lol, I have always ran only 3 vials. I thought about running 4, but I would hate to pull one late game and have it with no use...I have tried Elspeth in the main online, the local meta here just does not justify her main, as I can usually out aggro the aggro decks, which are plentiful here. She comes in on the games that seem to take a while to win, America control typically and birthing pod.I feel like her and Heliod are pretty interchangeable per matchup, and I don't want to run 2 at the 4 casting cost with the limited amount of mana that I typically have available.
lol sorry I just thought it was 4 before:POh ok, I was just wondering why you would play heliod main over her, but now I am assuming it is so you can block also.
You got it, not a lot better then vigilance to go with the first strike. I am hoping that this will put me over the top. I do appreciate the consistent feedback. If there is ever a deck you are in need of some feedback just let me know!
Np, I don't exactly have much experiance playing the deck, but I have faced ones like it and its similar to most Vial-Lord decks.You should keep the tally of what your record is vs each deck, it'll help you know which are your worst matches(I know you have an idea of which ones are but it'll help you know which are worse than the others and how to adapt accordingly.)I mainly just have a few Waste Not brews going on.Some in a Monoblack 8-Rack deck(my modern deck)Others in G/B Waste not/Loam lists.http://www.mtgvault.com/viagrasaurusrex/decks/8rack/ (My current list)http://www.mtgvault.com/viagrasaurusrex/decks/dredge-not/ (deck that I am working on, I don't own all the cards just yet as fetches are stupid expensive -_-)
They are pretty niche decks so i understand if you don't have much input for them:P
Great deck! I can't tell you to check out my knight deck because That's how I got here! i'll think about some of the cards you have here for my knight deck. :)
Thanks for taking a look, I just need to actually go out and buy the cavern of souls and it will be complete. A always, I am interested in input, never hurts to have some outside the box thinking!
Any clever ideas for a little card draw? Any thoughts about fetch lands to help thin the deck?
Don't Use fetches in a one color deck, Unless it draws almost the whole deck. I don't remember Where on the vault I saw a link for someone who did the math of fetches thinning out your deck, And Approximately you are paying 4 life for a nonland card about turn 12. :)
Lol gotchya. Riddle me this, what is better fiendslayer paladin or paladin en-vec?
I was wondering about that when I designed my knight deck, and I couldn't decide, if you're running two of whichever, I would put one of each, if you only have room for one, Than I would look at all the decks they would be good against, and see which one is better. :)
mainboard? I would say Fiendslayer, Sideboard I would say paly.The reasoning being Fiendslayer still dies to anger of the gods and pyroclasm.
That's a good idea, I would put the fiendslayers in the main and the paladins in the sideboard. If you have time could you check out m infinite hornet and squirrel combo deck, and it doesn't use earthcraft and the nest. :)
I have been playing online and got the idea to put mana tithe in the deck. It went from sideboard to main awfully quick. It seems as though everyone wants to tap out in modern to get the most out of the mana available which makes tithe so very good. As always I am welcome to suggestions.
Thats because nobody expects it from white so if you leave one white open they expect youre holding path to exile or something.Meaning they can tap out to cast something, or so they think. It loses its surprise if they see it game one though, if you didnt draw/cast it game 1 i would leave it in post board.But if they say you play it then side it out for a better card as they will play around it(even if you sided it out:P)
True that. I moved o-ring to the sideboard for it. That will be an easy swap out in a lot of cases. Thanks for the input as always!
Just a few thoughts:- I feel vial is all or nothing - you want to maximize it turn 1 by running 4, but I agree it is horrible in top deck mode; I'd say if you can run the caverns (which you do), no need for vial...your creatures are cheap anyway - Mana tithe is cute, but anyone worth playing will anticipate it in games 2, 3 and it will end up a dead card in your hand - you want to be threat dense to play through removal and the card advantage other decks will naturally generate; replace the tithes with creatures- In a stalled board state, you have few options to advance or push through damage (well, brave the elements is good for that, but I like to play that card defensively and it's only good for 1 swing if you do use it aggressively...); if you have any of the swords (SoFaI, SoLaS, etc.), definitely use those, as they generate card advantage, removal protection, push past defenders, P/T boost, etc. - Another card that works really good here is Elspeth, Knight-Errant...the +3/+3 flying can end games, especially if you target mirran crusader, and especially if that mirran crusader has ANY equipment (see swords, above comment)...
I agree with just about everything you said. Mana tithe comes out in games 2 and 3 if used in game 1. Vial is very good in the middle of a game when you vial in a knight exemplar as a defensive tactic, had won me a solid amount of games that way. I ran elspeth as a 1 of for a while and while it can be a game winner, it usually ends up dead right away and at 4 mana it is a little on the expensive side for this deck. I opted for heliod for indestructible and vigilance in her stead. I would put some swords in when/if I can acquire some.I really appreciate the feedback! Any decks you have that you would like looked at just let me know!
I run the swords in my knight deck and it is really fun to get a jitte or sword of something on a doublestriker. :)
Jitte is banned in modern, sword are legal though.
lol, I didn't even think about the swords with doublestrike. that's good stuff!
Oh sorry, I had a legacy list, and it had jitte. :)
I have been toying with the idea of dropping the silverblade paladin for the likes of spectral rider. Any thoughts?
Not a bit fan of either, I do agree that sliverblade and pairing is super awkward and easy to counter. but i dont know what to replace it with.
What about Hero of Bladehold? Helps with the mana curve since you have a decent number of 3 drops.
I think it would be safer to go:1x aether vial1-2x Elspeth 1.01x Knight of the White Orchid0-1x Sword of X and Y
hero of bladehold is too mana expensive. I was looking for another 2 drop to lower the mana curve a little bit more. Nothing like an opening hand of 3 drops in a deck like this.I thought about another vial, but I really hate top decking a vial late in the game when I need a little more board presence. I ran Elspeth for a while, but I really like the vigilance that Heliod brings, so I opted for him over Elspeth, that and indestructible and token making is really good. I origianally had 4 knight of the white orchid, but dropped one to make room for the 3rd mana tithe, which by the way, really pisses off control players, lol.I do whole heartedly agree with the swords. I need to get a find a few so I can try them out. Any idea what to take out for them?
was adding the 4th white orchid because adding elspeth ups the curve:pno idea dude besides silverblades
Good work bro! Pretty solid :)
Thanks! Let me know if you have any decks you would like looked at!
You left a comment on my tribal life-gain angels deck. I do like the Mana curve. I bet you have fun with this deck. I ususally play mine against Mono-black Pack Rat, Alluren Deck, Mono-blue, Affinity deck, and etc. Mine is generally played to just slow things down and actually play not go, "Oh well there goes a 3 match set in 5 minutes." lol
I hear ya. I should post some of the casual builds i play with. I take this when I go to some of the bigger FNM's or a large tournament. Trying to perfect the fine art of knights. Lol. That for posting!
Excellent knight deck, my good sir.May I suggest Hero of bladehold, if you have any. She does 7 damage an attack, 10 with an honor of the pure on the field. She also is great fun with Accorder Paladin. Plus, tons of chump blockers. I do not really know what you might run into in your meta, but this deck is very solid. Silverblade Paladin is my only source of contention. Kinsbale Cavalier seems much more potent.
I really like both hero of bladehold and kinsbale cavalier. The obly point of contention would be their high mana cost. The meta for modern where I am is very very fast. It makes it hard to run a four drop, or multiple, in the environment that we have, also I only run 20 land so it makes yet another hurdle for a four drop. I do appreciate the feedback, if you have any more suggestions I am more then open to hear any critiques or suggestions!Thanks for taking the time. You have a deck I could look at for you?
You're right about those 4 drops (rest in piece). I think your knight lineup looks really solid, and packs one helluva punch, especially with aether vial and cavern of souls.Too bad all my suggestions are not modern! Knight of the Holy Nimbus, Aegis of Honor, and Serra's Blessing.Hmm .. Knight of the white orchid and path to exile are awesome.
Hero of bladehold should be at least a 1-of (along with Elspeth, knight-errant) in your deck. These are the cards you want to draw mid-to-late game that help you pull ahead on a congested board state...I also think silverblade paladin is quite underwhelming...it's a win-more condition because you're creatures already have 1st strike, but I'll be honest and say I haven't play-tested much with him...
There's a reason you don't see Hero of bladehold in modern decks anymore... Sliver Blade isn't a "win more" card... a win more card is a card that turns a winning board state into an even better board state. Silverblade can turn a losing board state into a winning one... The only good argument about silverblade is how bad pairing can be in a format filled with 1cmc removal. I agree with elspeth but the OP has said a few times now why he isn't playing her so to each their own.
I just feel that soul-bonding is a poor mechanic to rely on in a removal-heavy format like modern...and how does adding double strike improve a stalled board state? It doesn't add evasion (which we agree Elsepth does wonderfully), and it won't allow your smaller creatures to survive any combat it wouldn't have had before...That's now I think you have to look at it --> Does playing this creatures let me swing through for more damage? Yes, double strike increases the potential damage, but does not change the board state...Hero of Bladehold does; the anthem effect is powerful with first-strike creatures, and the 1/1's she drops can be too much for other deck to deal with...she's also out of abrupt decay range with is noteworthy as I've played some decks that just can't deal with her effectively
There are a few key things you aren't looking at. 1: aether vialing in a Silverblade is a thing. 2: giving something double strike does change the board state... It makes the blocks different and/or speeds up a race. 3: I am not saying elspeth isn't good.... I am just saying that the OP has stated why he doesn't want her in the main deck... The big downside to hero is: 1: she costs 4 in a deck that runs 20 lands 2: you are never going to tick vial up to 4 3: she is a "win more" card 4: I honestly can't think of a deck in modern that would be scared to face a hero of bladehold...
If I am playing something for 4 mana in modern it has to do something instantly....
I don't agree with the "Hero of Bladehold isn't scary in modern" thing. True, this deck probably isn't her place. And Any Elspeth is completely more powerful than her (which is pretty much a massive nail in the coffin).However, consider that she has a damage potential of 7, by herself. Not bad. Put in a token deck alongside an intangible virtue, and that's nothing to sneeze at. Especially if you bring along her younger brother accorder paladin (though the latter WILL die before turn 4). But again, that's not this deck.That said, in a fast meta, what you say is somewhat true. The exception to the rule is, of course, those massive green creatures those annoying elves ramp into. And ... not all 4 mana cards have to do something right away. If they are win-cons and you can protect them, by all means, play them!However, I am under the impression you want something done instantly, so ... kinsbale cavalier. Say hello to silverblade paladin on 'roids, as long as you are playing a knight deck ... oh right. Silverblade changes the board state a little. Kinsbale flips the board over, jumps up and down on it, and laughs maniacally (citation needed). But even kinsbale falls short of elspeth. :)
See but that being said all the token decks that place well don't even use her... Like she used to have a place, but she has been replaced by:SwordsElespethSorinFor the exact reason of her not effecting the board when she drops.The reason she is a win more is because you need sooo much to go right for her to even help, were as the other cards above do just fine.(I would much rather play 2 virture/honor the pure on turn 4 after casting token spells on the previous turns.) Yeah I would prefer elspeth over that:P, I mean curving Mirran crusader into elspeth is the nuts...
Planeswalkers are indeed nuts. As I said, Elspeth and Sorin (Hell, probably even Ajani) beat her out tremendously. Which swords doth thou rether to ... the cycle from mirrodin
Like 4/5 of the mirrodin swords, its really meta dependant which ones you use.Normally you use them for the protection rather than the abilities.But the abilities are all good so its a sweet bonus.Ajani does get some love from time to time, I feel the new sorin will replace the old sorin in tokens, I mean sure he needs tokens in play to make him good, but giving all your tokens lifelink and +1+0 until YOUR next turn is huge.It can not only swing you out of the range of burn, scapeshift and storm, and if you have virtue its even a bigger threat.
Been contemplating taking out mana tithe for sunlance. Any thoughts?
You said your meta is really fast, right? I don't think you'll have a lot of mana on hand the first few turns, so mana tithe is immensely useful. Most players fail to leave extra mana when facing blue counter decks ... and mana tithe or silence type spells are huge surprises. Let's face it: who doesn't want their rakdos, lord of riots on turn 4? In all seriousness, the flexibility of mana tithe is not to be taken lightly when you have no other artifact or enchantment removal.
If you want a sun lance ... why not drop 1 or 2 of your 3 mana knights?
You are right, it is a very fast meta. But naturally there are games that get grindy. In a game where it goes past turn 4 or 5 tithe is pretty useless, but a 1 mana 3 damage spell can kill or creature by itself or finish one off after damage would be useful. I don't know that running both in a very aggressive deck is the answer. I have been going back and forth with the idea for a little while now. I may just board it for now and see how I like it. Tr input is always appreciated!
I'd say ... tithe is better than sunlance unless you are facing stiff creature opposition (oh right ... you're that guy!). Bothare incredibly annoying. Why not sideboard sunlancd in place of pithing needle?
pithing needle is a great sideboard card. it shuts down a whole mess of different decks. I would be willing to drop 1 oring and 1 either wrath or fiendslayer to try and make some room as a 2 of in the board. I am have been testing it in the mana tithe spot this last week and they are pretty interchangeable. tithe is great for my meta, I think sunlance is better online as it seems like a heavier creature environment, at least in my matchups on cockatrice.
Your meta is brutally fast. Noted. But what sort of decks do you face?In my meta, half the damn decks are infect or mill. And most of the rest are burn. So ... I have a ton of damage prevention needs. I would probably choose Oppresive Rays or Acolyte's Reward over Mana Tithe, and Elixir of Immortality over Pithing Needle.So ... what's up in your meta?
A lot of splinter twin, America Control, POD, and R/G tron are the top decks where I'm at.Naturally there is a burn and poison here and there. There is not a lot of aggro, seems a lot more combo / control here. I am relatively new to the format, but the knights have certainly outperformed my expectations, and in the process has made a lot of tier 1 decks mad. lol. #homebrew
Switch out the fetches for plains, they are not worth the life. And some stony silences in the board would do you some great work against affinity. :)
I hear ya with the stony silence, they are on the to buy list. I only put cards on here that I actually own, it only makes sense to me that way. As far as the life loss with the fetches - I do not think I'm going to switch them out. When I'm in an aggro vs aggro matchup, I do not lose(much) unless I'm getting mana screwed. The fetches may not bring much value as far as card advantage, but in my opinion the tiniest bit of advantage anywhere is a good thing. If there is the slightest probability that my next card is going to be non land when I'm in need of a threat or answer then that is what I want. I have read all the posts on the internet about fetches in mono cores decks not bringing a big enough advantage - to me if there is any advantage you can get then you should probably take it! Anyway, did not mean to ramble on, just my thoughts on the matter. Thank you for the comment! Any deck you have that you would like looked at, just say the word!
okay I see what you're saying but since burn is good against fetches and just because junk and jund are good I like leyline of sanctity just to smash the thoughtseizes lilianas and inquisitions, but I guess if you draw it it is really bad. :)
leyline is very good sideboard. I haven't got it all figured out on what to drop in the sideboard for it. I think it is because there is no a lot of jund or junk in my local meta. There is not a whole lot of black at all in my meta. It is primarily splinter twin, melira pod, America control, delver, and tron. If I could afford goyf I would probably run junk and I think it would tear up my local scene. Until then the white knights will be a constant thorn in the side of all the local players.I think it is hilarious when a homebrew does well at big events. I knocked a guy out of first place, and top 8 contention. I then lost the next couple rounds, but it was worth it to see the guys head about to pop when knights overwhelmed his pod deck! lol
Actually, thalia and thorn of amestyst would be pretty good for the sideboard. :)
You are so very right sir. Any suggestions on what to take out?
I just got back into some modern. I took the knights to a second place finish at NFM last week and it re-invigorated my love for this deck. I made 1 small change. I took out Heliod and put in mirror entity.I won against a pod-style combo deck 2-1 in very close games.I won against a reanimation deck 2-0 easily.I lost against affinity 2-0, and had a huge play mistake late in game 2 that could have turned the tide.I won against maze's end 2-0 pretty easily.There are a lot of GPT's in my area in the coming weeks. If there are nay suggestions I am all ears! As always, thank you everyone for all of the help!
Sidenote: I also took out 2 disenchant in favor of 2 condemn. Damn the poison matchup. lol
hei i really like this deck, i don't know if you are still active in mtgv, but i would like to know if oyu have tried a take on your version with chord of calling and knight of the relinquary and maybe a gavony township? Also how important in silverblade paladin? and how do you sideboard against affinity and control decks?
Hey, I had deleted this deck but I guess it still shows up in the archives somehow haha. This decklist is pretty horrible in my opinion (I can say it because I made it), as it offers almost no interaction with the fast combo decks of the format, and it's clock is too slow as compared to elves/affinity. However, if you do want a deck along the lines of 'white weenie', which is an archetype I enjoy, I'd recommend a GW hatebears deck that plays with noble hierarchs/qasali pridemage/knight of the reliquary. I think these lists have moved to playing collected company as well. Good luck.
also nevermind, I thought this my old thread on my knight deck that I made...this is someone else's deck...but I still agree with my points