U\B Waste Not- need sb help

by Bellz76 on 23 January 2015

Main Deck (60 cards)

Sideboard (8 cards)

Creatures (1)


Sorceries (3)

Instants (4)

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Deck Description

Continuing to try and break Waste Not\ Dark Deal combo.... adding blue for some more options.

How to Play

I think in order for this deck to work, you can't just focus on the combo. Yes, you always want to see a T2 Waste Not and then a T3 Dark Deal. But if you don't draw the Waste Not, then what? What happens in game 2 when they board in all their enchantment removal?

For starters, I like Chasm Skulker. He is fragile as a 1\1 for 3, but he requires an immediate answer. They don't have it and he can become a huge problem. You cast a Dark Deal on T4 after the Skulker and now it's almost too late. He could be as large as a 6\6. And if they don't exile him, you have X squid tokens to deal with as blockers or attackers.

Next we have Fate Unraveler. Good by herself, she also excels when a Deal is cast because now your opponent is forced to draw X cards. Her 4 toughness also keeps her out of most cheap burn range. Although susceptible to enchantment removal, that's one less spell they can aim at your Waste Not.

Finally the Deal loads your graveyard up with spells- perfect for delving. Makes Tasigur, the Golden Fang super cheap, as well as Murderous Cut and Treasure Cruise. Gurmag Angler is also a maybe here because, although not as powerful as Tasigur and cost a few more mana, he is much easier on the wallet, and has the added bonus of eating Rhino's. Toss in a pair of Treasure Cruise to round out the card draw, and that's a bunch of delving.

There is a lot of delve targets in this deck, but the potential is there to go from no graveyard to a stocked graveyard. Rakshasa's Secret is a hidden gem here- obviously forcing a pair of cards to be discarded is a big deal by itself, but it also triggers Waste Not twice, and adds 3 cards to the yard for your delve. And of course your Dark Deal dumps cards in the yard by the handful.

Sign in Blood is good to keep your hand full early, but also adds utility late game. It can act as a 2 damage burn spell by itself, but with the Fate Unraveler it now does 4. Want a few more Waste Not triggers? Give them a couple cards and then hit them with a Secret.

Risen Executioner gives us some early, sustainable pressure, and the added ability to have him milled away with the Secret, or pitched to the Deal, and then just keep bringing him back.The delve cards in the deck allow you to remove other creatures in the graveyard to help keep his recur cost down. Also really good against the control match-up. As an added bonus, he makes your Zombie tokens from Waste Not 3\3's. If played out on curve with a T2 Waste Not, T3 Dark Deal, into T4 Risen Executioner. Pretty strong.

Hero's Downfall is just solid removal, and Murderous Cut is usually pretty cheap with the yard being constantly full. Bile Blight rounds out the removal- obviously good against the agro token decks.

The deck is lots of fun to play, and I highly recommend it.

Deck Tags

  • Standard
  • Discard
  • Midrange
  • Fun

Deck at a Glance

Social Stats

4
Likes

This deck has been viewed 1,676 times.

Mana Curve

Mana Symbol Occurrence

054200

Card Legality

  • Not Legal in Standard
  • Not Legal in Modern
  • Legal in Vintage
  • Not Legal in Legacy

Deck discussion for U\B Waste Not- need sb help

Minor adjustments- removed the Chasm Skulker- too much of a removal magnet...

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Posted 06 February 2015 at 19:21

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Thats not always a bad thing

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Posted 17 February 2015 at 22:57

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Yeah know, I hadn't really considered that.... that certainly is true. And I like the Skulker. Maybe it's good to have a threat they have to answer right away or it get's out of control... I'll add him back and see...

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Posted 18 February 2015 at 13:41

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Perhaps cut the Torrents for counters?

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Posted 23 April 2015 at 21:47

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Yeah, I think that's a good idea... and I'm discovering that the Fascination is only so-so as well..... so I could have 4 slots available with those 2 and the Torrents... maybe 4 Dissolve?

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Posted 24 April 2015 at 11:49

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Torrent and Fascination are traps, they look like they would fit but in actual play they do next to nothing to advance your plan, (I tested them). Cruise is another one that can be easily upgraded by switching it to Dig Through Time.
I'm not crazy about Raks' Secret or Unraveler either, mainly because of their CMC v/s Effect are underwhelming considering you have discard spells, (that cherry pick rather then let your opponent choose), available to you that cost B compared to 2B, (4 Stain the Mind in the SB also seems highly suspect), and paying 3B for a Underworld Dreams that also dies to creature removal seems way overpriced...
I would seriously swap those for counterspells and increase your land count with more blue mana sources, (24 lands seems very light).

Two cards that you are missing that will help you against swarm type decks are Bile Blight and Crux of Fate, I would not even consider playing these colors without at minimum 1/2 a dozen of them in the main...

Now, for wincons I have used a few:
If you run more counters main then I have found that a huge Empty the Pits backed by counter magic dropped at opponents end step is quite a handful and can end the game real quick.
Ashiok by himself destroys certain decks and backed by counters can totally take over a game.

Just my 2 cents.

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Posted 24 April 2015 at 16:41

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Thanks for taking the time and leaving your comments! I certainly appreciate that. Here are my thoughts about your suggestions:

I suspected Torrent was sub par, but hadn't had the chance to test him... and the Fascination is marginal at best. That I have played, and I have used it a couple times w\ the Unraveler in play with some success, and occasionally milled away a card they just kept via a scry effect. But I agree- those are not strong enough reasons to run the card.

The Treasure Cruise has been good though. Leaving a single U up has allowed me to have an early Dark Deal (with or w\o the Waste Not) and then go right into the Cruise. And with the Skulker out is nuts. And whereas the single B discard spells do let you cherry pick, you're getting a 2-for-1 plus cards for delve with the Secret. Taking them out also takes away an enabler for Waste Not.

The Unraveler fits because of the Dark Deal, Sign in Blood, and Fascination (although I'm prob pulling the latter). And of course if you look at it as an overpriced Underworld Dreams that dies to creature removal it's very underwhelming- you could even add in there it dies to enchantment removal as well to really top it all off. But if you looked at it as a 3\4 beater that survives most cheap burn, gives you inevitability, as well preventing a planswalker from ticking up toward their ultimate (or at all really) for 3B... I mean, any "amazing" creature can always be trumped by "meh- it dies to removal"

Yes, adding the Dig would require a few more blue sources, but I've found that Dig typically favors the control deck (mostly) and the Cruise for the more aggressive- which makes sense in your suggestions since your changes are control based. 26 land is the number for control, Dig is control, counterspell leans toward control. The problem with switching up the deck in the direction that you're going is that there'd be no reason for this to play Waste Not- otherwise it would just be a weaker version of the U\B control that's so strong right now. That's a fine deck, but Waste Not doesn't fit in it.

I had thought about running Empty the Pits, but at the time Bile Blight was everywhere. Also, I don't tend to keep too many cards in the yard with as much delve as is already in the deck. That's when I made the switch to Tasigur. I've played a T3 Skulker into a T4 Dark Deal that then gave me a Tasigur for B. So I have a 6\6 Skulker and a 4\5 Tasigur on T4. And Ashiok is really good, but without the cheap removal, it's tough to keep her alive. And my 3 slot is currently flooded. And I do understand that with the changes you suggested, the removal would be available, but again, I'm not trying to build U\B control. And if you think about it- with Counterspell backup, Fate Unraveler can take over a game... well, any card really- when you're stopping your opponent from playing.

But as for the sideboard- yes- the Stain the Mind a bit much and are really just placeholders. All those cards are just placeholders currently. I'm not sure what would be a good sideboard for this deck- thus the ask for help :-)

I do have this deck on Tappedout.net and this is the list of potential Sideboard cards I've been thinking about:

Bile Blight
Crux of Fate
Disdainful Stroke
Drown in Sorrow
Duress
Jorubai Murk Lurker
Negate
Neutralizing Blast
Profaner of the Dead
Self-Inflicted Wound
Ultimate Price

Thanks again for the comments!

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Posted 24 April 2015 at 18:48

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My suggestions are as you deducted to take it in a more controlling direction because that is, as far as I can see, the only way you are going to consistently win games with this build. As the deck sits right now it is not fast enough to trouble other control or midrange builds nor controlling enough to trip up the faster decks you are bound to run into. It is a deck that is stuck somewhere in the middle that will loose to more than 50% of the current meta and having an auto loss percentage of more then half your games is not my idea of fun...

That said:
Bile Blight is a must have and I'd play at least 2 main. Sorrow is another lock for the SB and especially if you have no Blights main. Murk Lurker is a more control survival card that could work? Negate is likely your best counter out of the board and Ultimate Price is most of the time better then Cut main board.

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Posted 25 April 2015 at 15:02

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Yeah, I think it's tough to build a U\B control deck and not just go ahead and build THE u\b control deck that's running around. But you are correct- this is a.... unique speed midrange deck. I did some main deck tweaks- I did add 2 Bile Blight, and also added the Risen Executioner. I think I'll have more of each in the board. That should help with some survive-ability, as well as a bit more pressure. Executioner is a really good fit since you can mill him away or pitch him and still recur him, and he's a pretty hard hitter.

And I think it's a coin flip with Murderous Cut and Ultimate Price. The extra mana vs the restriction. It might be that the Price is better than the BB too. I do agree that Negate will be the counter to run in the board.

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Posted 27 April 2015 at 15:41

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