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2 questions:Is there any reason for not running Vengevines?Why not take advantage of the new delirium mechanic?
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Delirium seems kinda weak, as for vengevines I think they are not a must but I'd run then.
haha I totally forgot about vengevine. Dear god. I knew I was forgetting something obvious. And the only delirium mechanic I thought may be worth it is traverse the ulvenwald. But I have enough dig here to where I don't think that card is necessary.
One last thing, I feel like Lotleth Troll is too strong to be only a 2 of. Especially with you having 23 things you want to discard.
I agree with more lotleth troll. What would you take out for it? I was worried about multiple on board state, but I put too much thought into it. Having multiple creatures for the trigger and regenerate is definitely good. What would you remove?
Remove Geralf's Masterpiece. They are by far the worst creatures in your pool.
Really? Why call him the weakest. Easy discard from hand, can be activated on opponents turn and a 4 mana cost for a potential 7/7 flyer that also puts things in the grave from hand and can help trigger prized amalgam on opponents turn along with bloodghast.
I just feel like he is one of those theory cards that wont work in practice, I haven't tested it out and he does combo with loam, but then we are still looking at a 6 mana recursive flyer unless he gets exiled, which is pretty popular these days. I just realised that he combos with the prized amalgam as well, so yeah keep the masterpieces, cut a bloodghast and a brownscale.
Vengeful Pharaoh would be an sb card in my metta, but in yours it might me an mvp.1 darkblast could be cut, or a one-of anything.
@ chiligyro he is a 5 cmc Creature, but he seems to combo well. I haven't playtested this at all so in actuality he may very well clump the hand so he will definitely need playtested to see if worthy. @the swarmer My meta is very agro so killing off their creatures or their big one of's makes a big difference from what I have played so far.
With 3 lftl I'd run more toolbox lands and also some retrace cards.
Can you describe toolbox lands?
Whoops! Did not notice the Ghost Quarter, anyway stuff like blighted fen, was maintly think of blighted fen and Ghost Quarter there.
Oh I wasn't familiar with blighted fen. I do like that card.
I'm just going to put an answer to each of these questions on this deck.For Geralf's Masterpiece, the issue I see is that you NEED to have cards in hand, where when you are playing a Vengevine style deck, you don't actually want much of a hand since everything will be in play so quickly. Me and a buddy of mine have been messing with Vengevines/Loam Dredge decks for the last couple of weeks, and he's never performed amazing in testing.For Toolbox lands, there really isn't much besides Ghost Quarters for mana locking people, and I guess Manlands but the issue with those are they come into play tapped which can be awkward for a very aggressive deck. And without White you don't have access to something like Vault Of The Archangel, which seems to be the only worth while land from that cycle.And now my own question, what made you decide to NOT include Red, it seems to give you the best options for cards, in the form of Faithless Looting and the new Insolant Neonate? Aswell as removal in the form of Lightning Axe.Or the lacking inclusion of more mass Dredge cards or graveyard playable cards, such as Golgari Grave-Troll and Gnaw To The Bone as a way to shut out aggressive decks?
I was trying to include blue for the use of prized amalgam and geralf's masterpiece and forbidden alchemy just happened to be a decent dig card. and golgari grave troll is banned in modern. Red definitely has some good dig and faithless looting is one of the best cards for a graveyard play deck. However I believe I can perform without the red. Playing with red may be better, but I am not sure. I know most of them run squee and faithless looting. I haven't play tested this or really explored what the deck can do but with blue but prized amalgam was the main reason for blue and I thought throwing in another color could just clump things up. Cards such as prized amalgum or pharaoh are good agro cards already. Setting up a wall of returnable 3/3 or a graveyard kill like pharaoh that I draw into I can discard him again for lotleth troll or geralf's masterpiece. I could be wrong though about this deck. I haven't ever messed with a dredgevine deck so this is definitely new territory for me.
I could see where geralf just sits in the graveyard and doesn't do much. I know much of the deck goes one for one in its draw, no real card advantage there. But according to my sample hands I normally can have him pretty early especially with cards like life from the loam theat refills my hands with lands and I can use those to rediscard to bring him in play.
Grave-Troll is legal in Modern, it was unbanned about a year ago, this site is really bad at updating with Ban Lists.http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/banned-and-restricted-announcement-2015-01-19You don't actually ever need Blue for your Amalgam if the deck is built correctly, it can be discarded via Troll, Faithless or Neonate, and your deck will naturally put it into play just by being itself, with the Gravecrawlers and Bloodghasts. Having access to the Red just makes the deck overall more consistant, since it will give you a turn 1 play that always fuels your deck.
I see that. I could see just removing the blue and having faithless looting instead and a way to consistently keep him in the grave. Let me modify this and see how well it works
ah I didn't know he was legal. I never play with anyone that has used this deck either but that's awesome he is unbanned.
Seems just worse than the jund vine list with prized azmalgan (tool lazy for spelling).Neonate and looting are just better overall, just add more dredge effects and neonate allows you to dredge turn 1.
I tried adding red for faithless looting while keeping for prized amalgam. I think he really has a place in these decks. Triggering him on opponents end step for multiple 3/3 blockers with an archetype zombie for gravecrawlers as well is nice.
yeah i have just found red to be MUCH faster as your discard is 1-2 cmc and you have 8- 1 cmc loot effects between neonate and looting.lotleth is gold also. besides that 12 slots for vengevine, bloodghast and amalgam.4x for gravecrawler. rest is dredge.
I'd like to join the discussion on the new dredge decks :)Insolent Neonate didnt work out for me. 2nd turn I often needed my normal draw.I added blue for multiple reasons (besides Prized Amalgam beeing blue)Hedron Crab felt way better as the other 1drop besides looting.Still dont know if Narcomoeba is good or not.Playtesting a Fatestitcher he can unearth for free or tap a blocker for 1 mana and enables Cawlers too.Seeing less Lotleth Troll in most decks, he used to be a complete staple. What happend to him?Lastly Prized Amalgam seems underused at the moment. But I cant figure out how to break him.He triggers multiple times per endphase and they do trigger off each other.I often have multiple triggers of the same one on a stack and wished for a sacrifice option.Viscera Seer just seems underwhelming for that spot...p.s. thats my current build, constantly changing though.
I am really likeing the blue with hedron crab and prized amalgams being run. It seems really fun.