Discussion Forum

Yeah, Standard is a joke right now. Wizards royally screwed up, and I think they know it.

[QUOTE=surewhynot]Yeah, Standard is a joke right now. Wizards royally screwed up, and I think they know it.[/QUOTE]

surewhynot you are god :v

But seriously, I hope standard changes big time come October or whenever Zendikar cycles...

How exactly does the current situation differ from any other standard season ever since lorwyn? (can't remember how it was before that as I wasn't playing any serious tournaments before that)

We had Top 8 full of Faeries
Then 5 color Control
Then Jund
Now Caw Blade

Sure we had a bit o Reveillark in between, some mono red, a few titan brawls, walkers... but standard top 8's always look the same to me and always have. Usually there are 3 decks at best, that's it. If you want more viable decks try legacy instead of hoping for standard to become something it can never be.

Why would Wizards want to change the current situation? It's perfect. It's a situation that demands change so each set they print they have an opportunity to make money.

well the main difference would be that the cost for the current top8 decks are around 3-400$

don't think jund ever got remotely close to that.

[QUOTE=Seras]well the main difference would be that the cost for the current top8 decks are around 3-400$

don't think jund ever got remotely close to that.[/QUOTE]

Caw-blade's all but tanking cause stoneforge is dropping a ton...I run a more budget g/w version and I've placed in the top 2 for about a month and a half now at FNMS....you can win with a $200 deck. It's actually quite manageable to build.

[QUOTE=Scotty1700]Caw-blade's all but tanking cause stoneforge is dropping a ton[/QUOTE]

I don't get what you mean by this

I think he means it is cheaper to build caw-blade because the price of Stoneforge dropped.

But considering the bulk of the cost of the deck is in Jace...

oh haha ya, the issue is the 2-300$ just for the jaces, stoneforge is barely a factor in comparison

and even the other non-cawblade decks in the top8 were still running 3+ jaces.

[QUOTE=Seras]I don't get what you mean by this[/QUOTE]

Stoneforges, they were at one point tied for the most costly card in caw blade (excluding herp derp jace). They went from $25 down to $10.... (or at least I think they will be whenever the event deck comes out).

Due to the fact that I personally like G/W more, I don't run jaces so they were THE most expensive card....a playset going from $100 down to $40...yeah...

Edit: Jtms ruined standard, it's literally the dumbest card I have ever seen (granted I started in zendikar :v)
Even out of the old stuff that I've seen there's literally been nothing as broken. Anyone who runs it is desperate for a winning, he's not even fun to use.

[QUOTE=Seth]How exactly does the current situation differ from any other standard season ever since lorwyn? (can't remember how it was before that as I wasn't playing any serious tournaments before that)

We had Top 8 full of Faeries
Then 5 color Control
Then Jund
Now Caw Blade

Sure we had a bit o Reveillark in between, some mono red, a few titan brawls, walkers... but standard top 8's always look the same to me and always have. Usually there are 3 decks at best, that's it. If you want more viable decks try legacy instead of hoping for standard to become something it can never be.

Why would Wizards want to change the current situation? It's perfect. It's a situation that demands change so each set they print they have an opportunity to make money.[/QUOTE]

You're correct to an extent, but back then, a guy could still bring a weird deck and not necessarily do amazing, but at least do well. Now though, if you don't shell out an absurd amount of money for "That deck" you have no chance, and it's profoundly boring.

Also, before there was never anything like Jace. There have been good cards before, but nothing that defines the state of the game. Every one of the top decks has at least three of a card that costs upwards of a hundred dollars. To me, that's just sad.

I think it's far from perfect. To send the message that, in order to enjoy the game, you have to either spend an outrageous amount of money, or play in an older game type (that is also unwelcoming to a new player) is just asinine. And sending the message that in order to do well, all you have to do is buy that top deck, is just making bad players.

Either way, what standard has become, in large part due to Jace, is driving away casual players, and making bad rich kids/spoiled kids flood the game.

I misunderstood, I didn't realize this was about deck cost, I thought it was about the number of different decks in top8 of large tournaments.

The market cost of cards is what people make it. Take legacy, the cost of cards has increased for legacy times four minimum over the past 2 years making the average deck cost over 1000$. More interest in the format is doing that, more people play, bigger events are being held and the card value goes up.
I hope they never print a card more powerful then Jace, it's the best card in every format (aside from multiplayer formats). 80$-100$ for the best card in the game, well, there are cards that cost more and do less. I don't think the cost of Jace is the problem. The rest of the cards in a format like standard are fairly cheap especially if you recognize killer cards like Stoneforge Mistic early on. I payed 1$ for Stoneforge Mystic when it was spoiled and preordered a set as it was obviously a very powerful card. I payed 0.75$ for Avenger of Zendikar, I payed 1$ for Splinter Twin and now it's priced at 10$.
People that play tournaments on a serious level, do not buy good cards when they are at their most expensive price, that's to late, they recognize cards for what they are when a set is spoiled.

The only thing that makes standard very expensive is the rotation of cards. That's why I (and almost every other player I know) stopped playing standard and switched to legacy. That said if I had to start with legacy today and still had to buy all my cards I would not get into it. The prices are just to high, it's to late.

At the moment if you are not into magic for winning cash at GP's but you want to play some sort of competitive format without long term costs get together with a bunch of friends, build a cube and play cube draft every week. It's exciting and competitive and free once you have a cube.

^I gotta agree with ~95% of that whole post :D

My shop holds what we call "unplugged" tourneys, and they're a crapload of fun, and have made all the people in the shop, newcomers and vets alike, better players/builders. As the name suggests, "netdecks" aren't allowed. All decks entered must be original ideas. The end result is an interesting tourney with a surprise every game. The only "downside" is that sideboards are nigh useless, but so what?

I highly suggest everyone try to get their shops to do these. We started with Standard unplugged, because it was the format that needed "unplugging" the most to our shop owner...but since then we now hold unplugged Standard, Extended, Legacy, Vintage, and even unplugged EDH! :D

[QUOTE=surewhynot] As the name suggests, "netdecks" aren't allowed. All decks entered must be original ideas. [/QUOTE]

Sounds like fun but where do you draw the line about what is origenal and what's not. Can you play the same engine as a netdeck or not and what about an engine you've been playing that becomes hot all of a sudden, does that make it banned all of a sudden?

For instance can you play Deceiver Exarch + Splinter Twin in your own home brew? Lets face it the combo is basically Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + sky hussar, it's been around in many different forms so it's not origenal to begin with. It's just something that works and like any combo that works many people will play it, even without access to the net. It's a nobrainer. So where do you draw the line of what constitudes as origenal?

Would my friends version of 4c Landstill be labelled netdeck while in fact it is not like any stock list I've seen. It's such a rogue deck that most of his opponents don't know what he is playing. They know it's control but they can't remotely guess at the list. That is part of his success with it. Still it is landstill meaning it plays Jace the Mindsculptor, Mishra's Factory and Standstill.

I'll admit, I'm not sure how the arbitrary line is determined 100%, but I know that if you have an original take on something that makes it genuinely different, then it's fine. As for making a deck that gets "hot"...our way to fix that has been to limit using the same deck to 3 tourneys in a row. It's not "banning", but it works very well to keep an endless stream of unique ideas flowing every time one is held.

I love these tourneys, for many of the reasons I stated before. However, arguably the best part is how intense some matches can get. You can be doing great in the tourney and then suddenly go against someone who has a deck that just happens to be AMAZING against your deck. Both sides of that have happened to me. Once, I was doing great and then got destroyed by an otherwise run of the mill deck. Another time I was doing petty bad, but then steam-rolled one of my opponents.

i started playing back during 3rd and honestly, i miss how the game was played then compared to now. back then, you built decks from what YOU thought would work. lol i laugh now because i go to fnm, and a lot of the kids that play standard talk about, "i can't wait for the tourney to start. i found this decklist online that freaking owns!" its boring, i completely agree. Not to sound snotty, but i am 100% sure that i am the only player at fnm at my shop that brings a new deck every week. Yes, I am guilty of building a "net" deck (i can't help it, i love myrs lol) but honestly, atleast once a week, i divide out all my cards from colors and types, (isn't to hard, i keep them like that anways) and i try to build off of cards you hardly ever see in games.

but that is why wotc does it; to make money. it just sucks that the originality has been taken out of standard.

and i can't help but comment on rich kids making bad players lol but here's a perfect example:

4th round at fnm, i played this kid who for the most part, seemed pretty cool. i was playing my myr aggro and of course, he was playing some janked out version of a caw-blade. long story short, because i was able to use dispense justice on his "big baddies", he threw a little fit because "his deck wasn't working the way it was supposed to." then, with metalcraft, he absolutely refused to sac his creatures! im 25, served in the armed forces, and have taken S***s bigger than this kid and this kid is 16, and he leans across the table and looks me in the face and says" do we have a problem?"

i leaned in and said, " listen kid, we won't have a problem if you start to be friendly. no judge in the world will keep me from jumping across this table and teaching you some manners."

anyways, i don't know where i was going with this...im at work and super bored and felt like story telling. but yeah, i've never had a problem like this with older players...or in casual play. for some reason, its happening more and more at fnm, which from what i understand was designed to be friendly play to begin with!

ok sorry, done ranting but thinking about that night with that kid has me all kinds of pissed off again lol

I started playing during Unlimited also, and I miss those days as well. Back then it was more about what cards you opened or traded for instead of the current method of finding a good list and buying all the cards needed for it online.

That's part of why I run the deck that I do. I originally noticed the synergy of Livewire Lash with an infect creature, and I built my list around it. I had to buy some of my cards online, but they were cards that I had researched that I thought would work well.

I could easily go out and buy a full set of Dark-Blade, I make enough that it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but that isn't the point. I didn't come up with the list, I don't personally like the way the deck plays out. Back during ice age I played a very fast red/green aggro deck, I've always liked the style of play.

The biggest problem I have is Jace. He's expensive, that's fine, he's a mythic rare and in high demand and he's out of print. The problem is that EVERYONE uses him. If you're running a blue deck without Jace in it, and you ask for advice, the first thing anyone tells you is to put Jace in. Decks will intentionally add blue to a deck that doesn't need blue, just so that they can add Jace to it (see RUG).

It is ridiculous, he is incredibly overpowered and defines what decks will make it or not.

yeah, jtms is a bit much, in price and in abilities. but thats fine, wizards know they screwed up with him, they pretty much apologized for the release. I think its one of those cards they didn't expect to be so powerful on paper, but who knows. honestly, and its a crazy assumption but, i believe they are going to start reprinting the power 9...not all at once, but im sure of it. we are coming up on 20 years since and i just have a feeling in the pit of my stomache that sooner or later, they will reprint one of them, who knows which one..OR, they will create another rediculous plainswalker that yet again, will be the talk of the world and be one of those, have to have in my deck, cards.

Actually, they will never reprint the Power 9.
http://www.wizards.com/magic/tcg/article.aspx?x=magic/products/reprintpolicy

They will however make tiny changes to cards, and print it that way.
See: Fork (Which is on the reserved list) but they made 1 change to the wording and printed it as Reverberate

In a lot of ways, I feel the internet was a large contributor to the current state of Magic (and yes, i realize the irony of saying this on the forum of a site about M:tG). I started playing somewhere in Planeshift, really taking off in the Onslaught block. Playing mostly casual, back in those days, 90% of the decks were original builds made with cards you had pulled out of boosters/traded. It seems like these days, all you need to build a great deck is mommy's credit card and a good internet connection. I don't want this to come off too bitter--I think some great things have also come from the ability to share your deck ideas with others who are into the game, and to learn about cards/combos you never knew about. I just miss the old game some days is all.

Alright, I'm gonna chime in on this: This Standard format sucks. However, it doesn't make it the worst format ever (either Raffinity or one of the Tinker-legal formats gets that nod). Personally? Jace and Stoneforge are insanely good cards, and the 4-mana one should not have been printed the way it was. Will they ban it? I hope so. Will they really? I couldn't tell you. If you keep an eye on what the WotC staff is talking about (Twitter's great for this) then you know they know about Jace, they know he's a problem, and they aren't giving anything away. Banned and Restricted announcement's coming up soon, hopefully that'll shed some light on where they're taking Standard. Myself? I'm hoping Innistrad makes a format that looks more like, say, Time Spiral Standard. I can dream. Legacy's still good at least.


Trying to reign in this admittedly scattered post, I'm real sorry to hear about some snotty 16-year old kid talking like that. It's a shame, and I really don't want to see this game's younger players turn into Yu-Gi-Oh players (probably won't happen). I forgot the point of this whole post, so I'm just gonna stop here. awkwardly. yeah.

Yep, MTG Developers have pretty much said flat out that Jace, TMS was a mistake, and he will not be reprinted in any Standard legal format, so he will not be the Blue planeswalker in 2012, or Innistrad (if Innistrad ends up doing a cycle of planeswalkers).

The fact that he is typically the top of the curve in Legacy (meaning he is powerful enough to be the most CMC heavy card in a deck) should tell you all you need to know about his power level.

Oh well, we'll see what happens in... 16 days. (not that I'm counting)