Win or Lose

by K10ud on 06 December 2015

Main Deck (56 cards)

Sideboard (26 cards)

Creatures (4)


Sorceries (4)


Submit a list of cards below to bulk import them all into your sideboard. Post one card per line using a format like "4x Birds of Paradise" or "1 Blaze", you can even enter just the card name by itself like "Wrath of God" for single cards.


Deck at a Glance

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Mana Curve

Mana Symbol Occurrence

1711800

Card Legality

  • Not Legal in Standard
  • Not Legal in Modern
  • Not Legal in Vintage
  • Not Legal in Legacy

Deck discussion for Win or Lose


Unlife + Labrotory maniac + Ad Naseum is a good win condition but you deck lacks the tutors to ensure you have all three pieces reliably. Have you considering swapping out some of the support cards (such as serum visions) for tutors (such as Vampiric and Enlightened tutors). The are one mana instants and the card disadvantage is not really relevant as you will likely win on the turn you play it.

Replace "Path to Exile" with "swords to plowshares". You don't really care about their life total so it doesn't matter, them getting more land can hurt you.

Doomskar might be better than Supreme Verdict in this case. I dont think you want to use your temporary ramp on it, and I suspect you are trying to combo off on turn 4 anyways. Doomskar can be foretold early on for a 3 mana casting later.

Edit: Removed recomendations for damage prevention spells to combo with Ad naseum as damage =/= life loss.
Edit2: Combo: JACE, WIELDER OF MYSTERIES + PHYREXIAN UNLIFE + SPOILS OF THE VAULT
Jace is an Alternative to laboratory maniac and Spoils of the Vault is an alternative to Add Naseum. They will combo as a win condition (if you name and search for a card not in the deck).
Edit3: have you considering swapping lotus bloom and simian guide for dark/cabal ritual? Granted you current choice can be cast for zero mana but isnt that usually going to be a scenario where you effectively already won?

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Posted 15 May 2023 at 22:38

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Posted 15 May 2023 at 23:23

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These are some really good pointers. I went ahead and made the adjustments above. I'll be honest my initial reaction after seeing this long comment was to dismiss everything and act defensively. But after reading it and looking into everything, you're right, these were some much needed improvements. Ty, really appreciate all this. Let me know if you think of anything else.

EDIT: didn't realize that vampiric tutor was band in vintage and legacy... I went ahead and swapped it back with serum visions.

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Posted 16 May 2023 at 00:18

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Apologies for the lengthy post and forgetting that Vampiric Tutor was banned (I frequently confuse the EDH and the Vintage ban lists).

This will be another long post as well but its Soley regarding the sideboard (cards that are not going to be part of your normal deck, so it might not even be relevant to you).

You have a good plan here. Competitive legacy is filled with turn 1-2 wins so competing there it's a futile effort for almost any homebrew deck. You are looking really good for a casual game.

Any deck is going to have strengths and weakness based on its matchups. Your deck appears to be constructed as the "combo" archetype with a light touch of control. The sideboard is technically a part of your deck and you have not fully listed it, so it's something you could tailor to address certain matchups where you are weaker.

Versus Control:
Probably one of your best matchups. Wait for the control player to tap out, then win on the spot next turn. Biggest problem is a small creature attacking you while they hold mana in reserve for their own counter spells and removal.

versus Mid Range:
??? I am clueless here. Probably comes down to a battle of interaction spells. I suspect you have an advantage here because you aren't trying to fight past their creatures, which would make many of their recovery spells irrelevant.

Versus Tempo:
You are probably great here. Disruptions to your mana curve and evasive creatures are not a major threat.

Versus Combo:
Comes down to speed and consistency. You might have challenges here. You need to cast both Ad Naseum and Angels grace to combo off. That takes 6 mana. A ramp spell drops that down to 4.

https://stattrek.com/online-calculator/hypergeometric

If Serum Vision is treated as part of your mana base you only have a 63% chance of having 4 mana available on turn 4. Most of your lands also enter tapped so you might not even have access to four mana on turn 4 even if they are on the battlefield.

Versus Aggro:
This is another potentially weak matchup. 7 Lightning bolts (or similar spells) can deal the 21 points of damage on your opponent's 4th turn.
If we are in a more casual environment, we can assume that would be extended to their 5th turn. This means you need to stabilize or win on your fourth turn.

As mentioned, before you have a 63% chance of having the mana to win on turn 4. It also requires the ramp spell, dropping the chances lower. Angels grace could negate a full turn of damage but then it's not there for you cast to win.

Phyrexian unlife and Near Death experience will stabilize the game for you so it's great in this matchup. The biggest challenge here is the clock. Do you have enough interaction to slow the game down until turn 5 and the consistancy to achive what you need on that turn?


Sideboard Suggestion:
Put 4-6 more counterspells or removal into the sideboard for use when facing other combo and aggro decks. Stopping just 2 spells will likely be enough for you to come out on top.













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Posted 16 May 2023 at 17:46

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