Elfdrazi Trap

http://mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=105759

Look at this one.

Your build looks like it works fine. The only difference being that I am running standard, not extended, so I don't have access to the Pipers. Also, I found the pipers to be the biggest lightning rod of all, either that or a counter waiting to happen. I run the traps to make me far more stable against control. I've had games that involve a turn 2 Elvish Archdruid that gets mana leaked, I trap for 0, turn into either a Titan or any of my 5 Eldrazi. If that happens, the game is pretty much over before it began.

Summoning Trap is indeed nice...if I ever did a tournament, I'd sideboard a playset of it for those games in which my opponent was using control...the Titans are very nice as well, but I won't be buying any of those until the price comes down a bit

Not exactly. The build as a whole is relatively resistant to counters, simply because of the traps. If they let my creatures resolve, they give me the mana acceleration. If they counter them, say a turn 2 or 3 Elvish Archdruid. They risk a Summoning Trap followup, which they're not likely to have the mana or ability to counter after the first one. Effectively, the player with the counter spells has a choice, and most often, they'll let the threat resolve, with the exception of the 3 Legendary Eldrazi they can counter, and maybe a Titan.

With my U/W control deck (http://www.mtgvault.com/ViewDeck.aspx?DeckID=113996), I let creatures resolve for the most part, as it is based largely on exiling creatures and countering noncreature spells that target MY creatures. I think my control deck would probably destroy my Eldrazi deck; however, I've actually never tested them against each other

Yeah, the past couple of times I've gone to tournament, it's been pretty heavy with the different tri-colored control decks, mainly U/B/G and U/B/R. This deck handles itself nicely against them, but has some problems against the few blitz agro decks that are out there. It's for that reason that the Overgrown Battlements have made their appearance. They help to keep the Goblin Guides, Students of Warfare, etc...at bay. The little time they buy is usually enough to get to six, the magic number, lol, and explode from there.

ryan1028 has deleted this comment.

I'd be lying if I didn't say that I am impressed with this deck's evolution and continued performance. With that said, I HATE playing against this deck most of the time because it is so good and frustrating as HELL! I usually play against it when I'm trying something new. If I lose but give a good game, I know I've got a pretty good deck, but if I lose to a total blow-out, then it's back to square one and I build something else. The three decks I currently have posted have all given this deck fits time and again, even occasionally win, but all in all, this deck is on it's way to being a very real deck archtype that will eventually take the tournament scene by storm. Thankfully, I have play tested against it soooooo much, that I could do it in my sleep!

Oh yeah, I didn't know it wasn't standard legal. What exactly are the rules for being standard-legal, and what does it mean?

The current standard format includes Zendikar, Worldwake, Rise of Eldrazi, M11 Core Set, and Scars of Mirrodin. Anything from a set before Zendikar, not counting those reprinted and whatnot, isn't standard legal.

My bad on that, was supposed to be 4 Vines, and just the 4th fog, lol. I must have been really tired when I reupdated that sideboard. Anyway though, that much is fixed now. As for the single copy of Kozilek, I find that it's not necessary to have more than 1. I only fetch him up if I need the card draw, often times to try and find a fog, or if I don't yet have the mana to fetch up either Ulamog or Emrakul. You are also wrong about my being defenseless against artifacts. Nature's Claim is a 1 mana answer for it. I don't normally care about my opponents life total, so I find it works better for me than Naturalize. Against any artifact decks, say quest for example, I'm either exploding into an Eldrazi, which is going to make them scoop, or a Titan, which will make short work of the 4 additional life I give them. Oh, and as for the Vines of Vastwood, they're actually in there for the control matchup as well. There are times where I would rather have my 16 mana ramp creatures, not counting Sylvan Rangers, and there are times when I would rather have the Vines, usually boarding out the Overgrown Battlements. For example, it can be used as a 1 mana counter spell for a removal spell, or a pump spell by a B/G infect deck. It's a pretty versatile card, but got booted out of the main for now, only because of how common the blitz agro decks are becoming.

Thanks on the congrats, it caught me quite off guard, lol.

Oh, my bad dude, I didn't see Nature's Claim there xD (yes, even Aaboy66 makes mistakes sometimes >_<)

Lol, all good. I made the mistake on the sideboard itself. I also forgot to comment on the Harrow and Cultivate recommendation. The reason I don't run the spell version, as it the common build out there, is because of the control matchup. They'll throw a mana leak at your Cultivate, your Explore, Harrow, or Growth Spasm, and there's not much you can do about it. I ramp with creatures, which puts them in a tough spot, even for the U/B matchups. If they counter one of my creatures, lets say a turn 2 Elvish Archdruid, they risk a summon trap when they're probably tapped out. Countering that druid, just to have me trap into a Titan or worse is hardly worth the risk, lol, thus making my creatures slightly more likely to resolve. This also forces their entire game plan onto the "destroy my creatures". That is easily solved with my sideboard. I can take out 4 Doom Blade targets, and throw in maybe 4 Vines, or 4 lands in the form of Tectonic Edge. They're spending their time killing creatures, rather than putting pressure on my life total, which means I can just ramp straight to six mana with whatever is available, and go off that way.

Damn, that sure as hell is one thought-out plan. I got to say, this Deck gets even better every time I look at it. Great job on this one, man! :D

We actually didn't end up buying any of the Titans as singles. I pulled one at the pre-release, got 2 in boxes, and lucky in a pack. Here though, it costs about $40/per to buy em alone. As for the rest of the cards, it goes about like this.

Elvish Archdruid: $4/per
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn: ~$10-$15/per
Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre: ~$8-$10/per
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth: ~$7/per
Eldrazi Temple: $4/per
Eye of Ugin: ~$5-$7/per
Garruk Wildspeaker: $4-$6/per
Summoning Trap: $2-$4/per

These are some rough estimates based on my local area, but they should be fairly accurate. If anybody has some assuredly accurate prices, feel free to post them.

I did consider the Wurmcoil Engine. My only problem with it, is that it is "just" a fatty. The Titans also fetch any land I want, which can be Temple/Temple, Temple/Eye, Tectonics, or Forests if I see Tectonics on the other side. As for the Eldrazi themselves, they pretty much speak for themselves. As good as the Wurmcoil Engine is, I find it less appealing than the Titans themselves, and running any more than 9 fatties would risk cluttering up my opening hand with fatties. It's true I want to see the fatties, lol, just not more than maybe 2 six drops or bigger in my opening hand.

Hope that all made some semblance of sense, lol.

It did, but when it comes down to it this deck needs more win conditions. After game one, memoricide and sadistic sacrament can eat this deck alive. Wurmcoil at least adds another win and life gain against aggro decks. And you won't always have the primeval titan on turn 3-4, so it's another midgame play that helps get you to the Eldrazi. Plus it's searchable with eye.

Some would think that a single Memoricide or Sadistic Sacrament would rip this deck apart, but they're actually wrong. I've found, that 9 fatties is just about perfect. It's enough to the point where I will usually have at least 1 of them in my opening hand, even if it is an Emrakul. The other advantage of 9 fatties, in this case, the 4 Titans, and 5 Eldrazi, is that I can win without my titans. On several occasions, I've had my titans memoricided and won without them. Another win condition, is the elves themselves, something the other Eldrazi Ramp decks don't have. I've won more than my fair share of games just swinging with elves+Overrun from Garruk.

As I have played against this exact build and against this exact player, I know that Memoricide does not equal win. I have had to Memoricide the titans AND the Summoning Traps and only then I was barely able to eek out a win. Of course he got a comparably worse draw than I did in that game, but on a win/lose ratio, this deck has won far more than it has lost. In fact, I can honestly say that all of it's losses have been due to bad draws and on occasion, a misplay. Of course those types of losses can occur in any deck and happen to any player.

I have played this deck and I have played U/B control against this deck. Memoricide eats a lot of this deck up. When I played U/B, I'd call Primeval if you didn't cast one turn 3. Then, I'd either go for a Sacrament or for Memoricide calling Ulamog. Emrakul is not that scary, while Ulamog instantly changes the game. Once the titans and Ulamog are gone, all it takes is one All is Dust/Consume the Meek to equal game over. Another fatty is important, and to be honest Kozilek is garbage.

I am by no way saying that Memoricide done , turn 4, which is potentially a mistake in it's own right, doesn't have the potential to slow this deck up. What I can honestly tell you though, is that you also have to know what is a keepable hand for the matchup. Losing the titans to a Memoricide does slow it up, and it improves the chances of the U/B deck. The only catch is, if I leave 6 mana untapped as you go into that turn 4, and you tap out for Memoricide, you leave yourself incredibly vulnerable to an "In response, Summoning Trap. I should follow that up by saying that I have done that exact matchup plenty of times, and I rarely do a trap during my main phase, if I can help it.

The next thing that you're going to say is, "What are the odds that you are going to have the trap in hand?" My answer is simply this. I run 4 traps, and you may or may not run 4 Memoricides/Sadistic Sacraments. Aka, my odds of having a trap to punish you for tapping out are about as good, if not better, than you having the Memoricide on that turn in the first place. Tap out at your own risk.

I will say though, that Wurmcoil is a potentially good sideboard card for me, possibly in place of the plummets. It is something I could swap in, taking place of a couple of the Eldrazi, pending the matchup. It could very well be another gamebreaking 6 drop against the blitz agro decks that are very good at dealing 20, but not so good at dealing 26 or more.

Oh, and as for your words about Kozilek. Obviously you haven't played this deck against an agro, staring across at lethal, fetched up a Kozilek, played it, drawn a fog, attacked with any titans you have, potentially giving you enough mana for infinite turns, then used the fog to survive the next turn, and winning on infinite turns. Kozilek is there for that reason, and pretty much that reason alone. Having 3 of either of the other 2 instead, pales in comparison to the potential of using his draw 4 in such a scenario. When dealing with the largest mana costs in magic, any and all card advantage you can get, aka Sulvan Rangers and Kozilek, can mean the difference between dead by 1 turn, and winning or going infinite turns, on the last possible scenario.

Memoricide isn't a bad card, but its problem is its cost; you have to pay 4 to get rid of a maximum of four cards (unless of course you are facing a Black deck based on Relentless Rats). I think a better card that does the exact same thing for 1 mana is Extirpate; the only catch is the card has to be in the graveyard, so getting rid of the legendaries is a problem. However, a U/B mill deck that runs a playset of BOTH Memoricide AND Extirpate might better do the trick. Of course, I assume we are sticking to Type 2, in which case Extirpate can't be used. All of that said, I don't think control in the form of exile is the best means of dealing with a deck like this, as by the time you actually exile things, there's likely already a fatty on the battlefield.

ryan1028 has deleted this comment.

and I should modify that to say "...by the time you actually exile things from graveyard, hand, and library..."; Cards like Path to Exile, Journey to Nowhere, and Oblivion Ring are better suited to deal with a deck like this, in my opinion. The only creature that would cause a problem is Emrakul.

I am for the most part faster than any U/B mill. They are generally creature light as well, which means that simply attacking with elves is usually good enough. So mill for the most part doesn't scare me at all, even with a turn 1 Leyline of the Void. If they can't handle the elf swarm, then slowly exiling my library doesn't matter, lol.

Path to Exile was a huge problem for me. The fact that it was 1 mana made it very hard to play around, as did the fact that it was instant speed, and the creature didn't have to be attacking, blocking, or anything. It was just a problem card in general. Vine's were mandatory in the main back then, but since this is standard, I don't have to worry about it anymore.

A) I don't doubt you having a summoning trap, I doubt you have the mana to play it.
B) Kozilek drawing a Fog? Really? I'd rather not run that, I prefer running things like Avenger for chum blockers or wurmcoil for life gain hands down.
C) Memoricide is run in the most popular control deck in format right now, and can easily be paired with Sadistic Sacrament. If I was playing control against this, it's memoride for primeval then sadistic for the Ulamog and Emrakul.
D) No one is talking about mill. Control is very different. Your elves die to Consume the Meek all day long.

I mentioned the Kozilek drawing fog, because sometimes it's the last ditch effort to live, sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't. It's hardly the real plan, but sometimes you just have to go with what you have at the time, which might only be enough mana to fetch up and cast him, and see what happens.

As for having the mana, that is rarely an issue, even if I lose an Archdruid to a Doom Blade on their turn 2. My question for you is this, what kinds of hands are you keeping that you are losing consistantly to deck disruption? There are 16 mana producers in the deck, not counting the Sylvan Rangers. Spot removal here and there is hardly enough to slow up the deck, this much I have seen and overcome time and again.

As for mass removal, that is simply dependent on the matchup, and me not over-committing to the board. In my experience, which with this deck is quite expansive, the more time I can keep my opponent focused on my creatures, be they on the field, or in the deck, the better my chances. I can recover from a Consume the Meek, I can win without my Primeval Titans, and even without my Eldrazi. If they're focusing literally 2 turns worth of tempo on my deck, then any elves I have on the board might be bashing them in the face. Garruk also presents a challenge for mono-black control. This deck attacks in a singular fashion, but varies in the tools it's using, based simply on the draw.

If you pick up this deck blind, draw up a seven card hand, and immediately plan around Summoning Trap for Emrakul, without even looking at your hand, you've already lost. With this deck, you just have to take what your hand gives you, look at your matchup, and make your decisions based on that. No single plan will work every time, but the deck is consistent in what it does.

I will concede that Wurmcoil Engine is good, but only in the sideboard for me. I would rather see any of my eldrazi or a titan at the end of my opponents turn, or on turn 3, not a Wurmcoil. The come into play ability of the titan makes it infinitely more valuable, and even trapping into a Kozilek at the end of my opponents turn might be enough to just cause them to scoop. If, on game one, they tap out while I'm sitting on six, not knowing what's coming, any annihilator is good enough.

Simply put, Kozilek has proven his usefulness to me, time and time again.

If you support this deck and wish to give it a go, I say that's great. However, if you doubt this deck for any reason whatsoever, put your skills to the test. If ever you happen to be in the Louisville, KY or Southern Indiana area, myself and Lucian will be more than happy to meet you at any shop in the area to sling some cardboard. I have said before and I will say it again now, I have playtested against this deck soooo many times and with so many different decks and I still am hard pressed to get a win. While it is true that there are some weaknesses in this deck, (and I have exploited them all), it has ways of getting to it's goal more often than not. Every step of it's evolution thus far has eliminated what has beaten it before. I guess you could say it's kind of "Borg" like.

ryan1028 has deleted this comment.

and I modified it again...now I'm seriously considering those Eldrazi Temples with these new modifications, lol

The other 2 pieces that help you drop them into play for 0-1 is all fine and good, if they live. The temples however, can give a fair bit of acceleration in their own right. Holy wow, didn't realize till just now that you threw the legendaries in, lol. I would definitely add in the Temples, although I don't recommend taking out forests with them. You are starting to tread some pretty dangerous territory with your mana though. 12 6+ drops and only 16 actual mana producing lands in the current build. I would give it some solid playtesting before you actual compete with it, make sure you're confident about your land/mana base. Also make sure to test against some heavy creature removal, just in case. You need to make sure that even spot removal on your Archdruids doesn't guarenteedly doom you, lol.

ya, that's why I said I'm considering the Temples now lol

if I have problems with it, I'll probably take out the 4 Wall of Vines and put in 4 Eldrazi Temples

well, since I'm still not planning on hardcasting the Eldrazi, I've decided to instead take out 1 Wall of Vines and 1 Pathrazer and replace those with 2 forrests, making 18 mana-producing lands

I would just kind of take it slow on the modifications, depending on what you actually have available. Do some playtesting, see what works in your metagame, and what doesn't, and go from there. My metagame is littered with control, and this deck just walks right around and over control, especially when I board in 4 tectonics to cripple their land base.

Galvanic Blast was the burn spell he used (asked him what card it was)

Yeah, my deck is fairly vulnerable to red deck wins and white weenie. I don't have as many blockers as you do. What mine lacks against agro though, I make up for against control. It's the risk I take for my mana ramp and combo.

yup, that's the result of the people I play against...I have a lot of friends that run aggro and a lot that run a bunch of flyers; the result: my decks tend to have ways to deal with flyers and aggro...not too many people I know run control, which is why I would only sideboard summoning traps for those few specific games

Well, the trap is still decent if you can ramp the mana. Once you get to six mana, you can just hard cast it at the end of their turn. Just because it has the trap cost of 0, doesn't mean it can only be played that way, lol.

that's true...I still prefer Lurking Predators to Summoning Trap though, simply because it makes the opponent reluctant to play anything every turn, which, if they don't, just means I'll drop my Eldrazi for 1 mana instead; it basically makes it where they have to do something if they hope to win, but if they do, they bring about their demise quicker...I guess I'm evil lol

and I just realized that up above I meant removal of the Archdruid on turn 2 or their turn 3, depending on who goes first (I accidentally said turn 3 or their turn 4)

Yeah, Lurking Predators does have that effect on the game, especially with eldrazi in the deck.

Lol, yeah you can steal it. I just liked the sound of it, and it was less to say than some of the other options.

I'll give it a look, see what if there's anything I can do for you.

Is either too slow, or not needed.

All very good questions. I'll start from the beginning. I have playtested with the Joraga Treespeakers, and my problem with them is this. Turn 1 land+Joraga Treespeaker, turn 2, Land+level the Treespeaker, in response, Lightning Bolt, Doom Blade, etc...If this happens, I walk into turn 3 with 2 lands and no creatures. If the Treespeaker resolves and doesn't die, it's good, but if it dies, which it is more prone to than than the Llanowar's and Arbor's, then it's just bleh.

As for the Garruk's, you'd be surprised what else it can do. It can provide me a blocker if I desperately need one, but it can also make it that much easier for me to hard cast my eldrazi later in the game. I can tap 2 temples for 4 eldrazi mana, use Garruk to untap them and retap them, thus giving me 8 eldrazi mana off 4 lands. Used in this fashion, he effectively counts as 4 forests. The overrun is also useful, if I happen to be on the elf agro plan, but that doesn't happen as often as some might think. I'll pick away at them with elves when I have to, but I'd rather cast the bigger threats if I can.

As for the Naturalize over Nature's Claim, that's just a question of how much mana I want to be obligated to leave up, most especially against quest. If I have 7 mana, I can cast a titan, or leave up trap mana, while still being able to Nature's Claim. The difference of one mana is a big one when you're dealing with the most expensive creatures in magic.

As for Plummets, those are kind of up for debate. Their really only there for the occasional Linvala or Baneslayer Angel. I can outrace Baneslayer sometimes, but Linvala pretty much shuts me down cold.

I checked out your deck. It's an interesting build to be sure. Mine is build for standard, so I don't have the pipers and the lurking predators. My question for you though, how quickly do you find yourself casting your Eldrazi, and have you thought about Summoning Trap?

Memoricide can certainly slow this deck up. Just 1 of them won't guarantee the win, especially if they are on the play and manage to drop a Titan on their turn 3 or 4. If they stall though, get to six on their turn four, or later, the Memoricide can strip them from the deck, potentially giving you the time you need. The way the fatties are worked out, it takes no less than 3 Memoricides and/or Sadistic Sacrament to strip them all from the deck. The game is still winnable from that point though, lol, but we're on plan C. Elf and/or Garruk beat down!

Thank you very much. My sideboard is about to go through an overhaul, but we'll see. I'll take a look at your mill deck, see if I can't help ya with something or another.

I have certainly considered them, but I find them to be better in the agro builds than a build like this. Untapping my Archdruids and other mana producers is certainly relevant, but in most cases, a main phase trap from my deck is a mistake, especially in sideboarded games. Dropping a second main phase Titan can certainly help a lot, but all of this is basically dependent on both my Archduirds and the scout being alive. I've found that assuming my creatures are going to be alive is generally a mistake. I hope they do, and when they do, it's definitely a bonus, but with all the creature removal out there, most of which is targeted at the Archdruids themselves, it's very hard for me to imagine scenarios where I am either alive long enough to pull it off, or the two pieces are alive together.

I understand that this comment seems contradictory to other comments I've made to people, but the reality is this. I have 16 mana producers, because I assume that some of them are going to die, lol. I don't want them to, but that's just the reality. If they make the mistake of letting the turn 2 Archdruid live, or if they just don't have the removal, the game could very well be over before it begins. Most games that I've played lately involve some combination of land and elves/defenders to produce the 6 or more that I need.

My key problem with the Scout, is that if I assume my Archdruid isn't going to live, I'll be casting the 6 drop either at the end of their turn, or during my first main phase, or possibly second, depending on how I want them to block. I agree that casting 2 six drops in the same turn can be good, but in most cases I don't want to be seeing that many in my hand until at least the mid game.

I hope all of this makes sense, lol. If not, point out any other confusions, and I'll give it another go.

Tyneetym has deleted this comment.

Yea that makes sense, how do you feel about Oracle of Mul daya, they are elves. They turn over lands allow more lands to be played. They also help with traps allowing you to see at least one card. Making a trap all that much more useful to know you are getting that titan or eldrazi on the top of the deck? You may have enough land with the titans and what not, but it also seems they pay for themselves if you get a land turn and put 2 lands into play that turn. In addition another card they have to think about countering

I Was actually thinking about them, most especially for the control matchup. I'm not sure if I'd use them in the main deck though. They are basically a lightning rod. In the control matchup though, when I don't necessarily have to go off as fast, they might certainly be effective. As it was, I was actually toying between them and the Mul Daya Channelers. The Channelers would be in the board for the agro matchup. If you look down the main list, there's only 9 spells. If I can drop a turn 2 Channeler and reveal a creature, it can help hold off the Goblin Guides, lol. a 5/5 on turn 2 has that effect.

I like those sideboard changes...I've playtested my Eldrazi deck a bit and have found that it still works great with only 16 Forests...I've also decided to make all of my decks legal for Extended, since a couple decks had a few older cards in them (bought some new stuff...also made some new decks)

I don't see scenarios where I can actually afford to side out my 1 drops, especially against control. Because of how few mana producing lands the deck actually has, and since literally every mana producer dies to a Consume the Meek, DoJ, I really can't afford to play around it. The best strategy I've found to playing around them though, is just to go for 6 as fast as I can, especially since I took out the Vines of Vastwood. Once I get to six mana, I can afford to hold onto any extra mana producers I have, unless I'm going for infinite turns. That enables me to quickly recover from a wrath effect and pick up where I left off.

Thank you very much!

I gave it a look over, and it looks pretty decent. It does have more defense than mine does, which is certainly relevant the way the metagame is shaping up.

ryan1028 has deleted this comment.

Yeah, I had to include the walls for several reasons, aggro in standard tournaments being the chief concern, coupled with the fact that my Elves will be tapping and not blocking...fortunately, I can also ramp mana w/ blockers (Overgrown Battlement and Awakening Zone), so they aren't just sitting there to block; they still help the ramp along...

Exactly why I'm such a fan of Overgrown Battlements. The only real problem is if red feels like using a burn spell after combat, but that's still better than damage getting through, and that burn spell getting pointed at your face in a few turns, lol.

I've run a lot of playtests with this deck, and I'll say freely, that even with it's low land count, it can endure through most punishment if it can just get to six mana and do something with it. Sometimes that even includes summoning a Sylvan Ranger, fetching the land (aka his job) Then saccing him to some random threat, or using him later to power out more mana with an Archdruid.

This version will almost always have problems with red decks, if they're smart enough to kill the small elves. If it reaches six mana though, a titan can be difficult for them to deal with, and after a titan resolves, likely fetching up your 7th mana and your eye of ugin, the game it pretty well in your control, as long as you're not at 8 life staring down 12 power worth of goblins.

And sideboard edited to include 4 Green Sun's Zenith.

I put the Zenith's in the sideboard, because at the time, it was a far more control dominated metagame. In a control metagame, Summoning Trap will win games, because it forces their removal to do all the work. If, in game 1, they try to Mana Leak an Elvish Archdruid, it can turn into an Eldrazi or a Titan as early as turn 2.

The other reason that the traps are main deck, is that in those matchups, if I'm holding a trap and a titan, I can just trap at the end of their turn, make them counter or potentially lose, and often tapping enough mana to enable a titan to resolve on my next turn, which can also lead to a fast win.

The Zeniths are there mostly for the agro deck, to guarantee that I get a creature. Against Kuldotha decks, I can't always afford to wait for 6 mana, or risk missing a creature when I desperately need a blocker, or a Baloth.