Jundshift

yeah i agree with the fetch. i would suggest dropping the 4 farseeks in favor of 2 verdant catacombs and 2 bloodstained mire since they both cost about the same in price, then maybe adjusting the mana base afterwords

Bloodstained mire is not Modern legal

fair enough, but i was just tossing it out so it would cover mountains too. dont have to use it though

Ancient Grudge is faster and more versatile than the others that you mentioned.

Umm... there are 10 mountains. Scapeshift kills with only 6.

Why did I get downvoted? I didn't insult anyone did I? I didn't say that the deck was garbage... and in fact I like the deck. can't people take constructive criticism? gosh...

and no, there are not 10 mountains in here, there are only 2, because the shock lands are not double basic lands. otherwise they would be worth WAY more than they are. actual double basic lands are worth hundreds of dollars.
But, like I said, I am not 100 percent certain of that, so I might check the official rules. and if I am wrong, then I am wrong and I take that part back.

now with that in mind, even if they are counted as mountains, having 10 of them still isn't enough. since you have to play 5 BEFORE any damage is actually dealt. so the 6th land on deals damage. which means that only 5 lands actually deal any damage... so no... my statement STILL stands correct either way. There still aren't enough mountains to kill your opponent with solely with Valakut, which seems to be what you are implying that the strategy is.

please know what youre talking about before you post. Shock lands are two basic land types each, just like Revised Dual lands are. Most Valakut decks play 13 mountains, so this one is a little thin, but can still operate just fine. your criticism is not constructive, its ignorant.

So, can I search for them with cards like evolving wilds or pretty much any card that states that I can search for a basic land? because that would be fantastic. as far as I am aware... I cannot do that since they are NOT basic lands.

However. as I said, as far as I was aware, they didn't apply. And as I also stated: if anyone can show me the official ruling that sates that I am wrong, then I would be happy to concede the point.

However, even taking into account that they are considered mountains, they aren't enough to kill your opponent with valakut. since you have to play 5 mountains before valakut starts dealing damage that leaves you with only 5 more mountains. and last time I checked 5 times 3 was only 15. which leaves you 5 damage (or 2 mountains) short of a kill. sure, you can lightning bolt them twice, and the deck "works" to get the kill... but I am saying that it could work better. and could be improved.

Once again, I was in no way trying to put anyone down, nor was I attempting to insult anyone. please learn how to do basic math before YOU post. do not blindly insult in ignorance.

I dont give a shit if you concede the point or not. if you want to continue being wrong, who am I to stop you? Dual lands are NOT basic lands, so no, you cannot search them with Evolving Wilds. Stomping Grounds is, however TWO BASIC land TYPES, Mountain and Forest. You can look up the rulings on your own, or not. whatever. As for your attempt at a jab, my basic math is fine, as is the Builders. 10x3 =30. Maybe you should look up why Scapeshift works, while youre at it.

yes, 10x3 is 30. however you would know that you can only deal half of that damage with this deck, if you had actually read Valakut. which is what I was saying.
if you honestly don't understand the point that I was trying to get across... you should probably actually read my posts before just insulting me without cause.
just getting mad about it and swearing isn't going to prove your point... just make you look foolish.
and nowhere at all did I ever say that I disagreed with you after you had said that I was wrong about the lands.

And if you knew how Scapeshift worked, this wouldnt be a conversation.

hm... looks like you sac any number of lands, which go to the graveyard, then you search for that many lands and put them onto the battlefield tapped. nowhere does it say that it deals any damage, or any extra damage. so as far as I can tell you still can't deal more than 15 damage. since the lands all enter the battlefield separately, and as such they all trigger Valakut's check separately... they all CANNOT deal damage. only half of them.
Nothing happens in magic simultaneously. they can't all trigger at once.

However, I can see that you are just arguing with me for the sake of arguing, and I see no point in trying to have a civil discussion any longer. which sucks. because I really like this deck. later.

You sac 7 lands, and go get a Valakut and 6 mountains to deal 18, or you sac 8 lands and go get 2 valakut and 6 mountains, dealing 36. both are more than 15. The lands all enter at the same time, and Valakut sees each of them enter, placing a trigger on the stack, assuming you got enough mountains. But nothing happens simultaneously in Magic, right?

Ummm sorry but your wrong NinjaStyle612. Valakut is worded in a way that does Not deal damage until the 6th mountain enters the battlefield. You must control 5 first. At very most you could deal 15 damage if you managed to get all 10 out which would be really hard even with your Coursers, Explores and Search for tomorrow. If Valakut dealt 3 damage every time a mountain entered the battlefield from that point on, It's value would be in the $20+ range not $2.

Sorry I stand corrected if you had both Valakuts out then had 10 mountains enter you would deal 30 damage. (which is still really hard to achieve.)

Youre still wrong. The way Valakut NORMALLY works is that you need to play 5 mountains, then play a 6th to start dealing damage. Scapeshift changes the interaction by having all 6 mountains come in at the same time, triggering Valakut for each of them. Sacking 7 lands to scapeshift, getting one Valakut and 6 mountains deals 18 damage. Valakut was banned in Modern because of this, and recently unbanned. As I previously stated....do try to know what youre talking about before you post.

I stand corrected and have just read the rulings on what enters before abilities are checked. However in my opinion the wording doesn't seem to allow this. That being said I know what deck I'm building next.

I agree, the wording does make it seem like Valakut would not do the damage until the sixth land enters battlefield. Ninjastyle is just a rude asshole who attacks people that don't sleep with their dick stuffed in a rule book every night. Dont be offended Kazzong, and certainly dont apologize, he is like this to everyone.

look! an internet toughguy!

Ill explain this again. real slowly for you. Mobb, get your crayons ready and prepare to copy. Valakut IS worded so that when the 6th mountain enters the battlefield it triggers. SCAPESHIFT is what makes this work. When you Scapeshift, you sac 7 lands, get a Valakut and 6 mountains, which all enter the battlefield at the same time. when Valakut checks for triggers, it sees that 6 mountains entered with 5 other mountains on the battlefield, and sees that for each mountain that entered, and deals 3 damage for each of them.

If you want to be ignorant, dont let me stop you, but youre the cunthammer in here talking shit and adding nothing to the conversation, Mobb. I might be an asshole, but at least I know what Im talking about.

Im not disagreeing with you, im just saying your an asshole. In fact i was agreeing with Maniacalmaniac that the wording makes it SEEM like it shouldn't work. Your problem is that you do know what your talking about, but have no idea HOW to talk to people.

I know exactly how to talk to people. I choose to point out stupidity. I make no claim that I am not an asshole, but I have a low tolerance for ignorance, probably from having to deal with so much of it in the military. You can dislike all my comments if you want. it wont change anything. some people just dont like honesty. you want to know how a card works? ill be happy to explain it to you in a fairly civil manner. tell me Im outright wrong when I am not, and youll get this. its not a big deal to me, and my rep on here doesnt matter at all, so dislike all you want, i am not going anywhere. Have a good one, friend.

EVERYONE, and i mean EVERyONE, likes honesty. You can be honest without the snide ass remarks you throw in at the end of each sentence. You talk down to people. Your statements of honesty are disregarded when you turn it into a question of intelligence, and you go from being helpful to just being another prick who thinks his shit doesn't stink.

you make a lot of assumptions. you dont like me, dont engage me in conversation. simple as that. you arent some kind of hero, and you arent going to change me, because the opinion of some toolbag on the internet means literal nothing to me. That being said, this thread is getting WAY off topic, and needs to get back on track.

I didnt engage you, you engaged me, and without hesitation. Nothing was an assumption, and your right i don't like you. And my opinion clearly meant enough to you to argue about. If you want to get back on track, you can respond to my question at the bottom of the page.

Everyone just needs to calm down. Ninja was trying to point out the way Scapeshift and Valakut interact, when Kazzong attacked him and claimed he was "ignorant". Kazzong wasn't the only one in the wrong, as Ninja came back pretty aggressively, but either way there is no reason for us to act like this.

This site is supposed to be constructive. Don't get so caught up in your ego that you are unwilling to admit a rules mistake. It happens to everyone, I've done it and I'm sure all of you have done it too.

Sorry boss but this is old news at this point, me and ninja hashed out our differences and road off into the sunset hand in hand. <3

Agreed raging. I use this site to post decks that I have and decks that I'm thinking of making. I love combo decks and usually skill intensive ones. So if someone didn't understand how any of the combos worked I would just explain it to them.

No offense Drizzle and Raging, but you guys did read the conversation from the beginning right? At which point did ninja get attacked by kazzong? Cause im not seeing it. I see kazzong make a statement and ask a question that also clearly said "as far as i am aware" which to me implies that he admits himself that he may be wrong. Im pretty sure Ninja just jumped right in (like a ninja no doubt), and used some aggressive words towards kazzong, alllllll before kazzong had said anything to him. I must have missed the part where it was explained calmly

We can't read the posts because I think because they've been down-voted too many times, but what I remember is that Kazzong made a bold claim about a subject in which he was misinformed, then Ninja called him out for not knowing what he was talking about. Normally I would just explain how it worked, but if the person arrogantly claims that which he does not know it's much harder to be polite about giving them the information. That being said, yes, there are plenty of ways that this conversation could have been toned down a little.

lol agreed and yea the down voting is intense

Very eloquently said Drizzle. Good on you, friend :)

Im blunt. Deal with it, or don't. I don't care. The fact is that before any real trash talking occurred, I was simply explaining. It wasn't until you jumped in talking about something like sleeping with dicks in rulebooks, or some utter nonsense, that shit got argumentative. Look at it like this: someone who did not know the interaction learned how it works. Could I have delivered the information more politely? Sure, but I don't care about your feelings, and if you're too sensitive for the internet, kick rocks, we don't want you.

I gotta assume that you don't talk to people like that in real life, or you probably wouldn't have anyone to play with. This is to the people who like to be rude on here. Let's keep it constructive like we were sitting together in person discussing deck design. Thank you

I am actually very blunt in real life, and most people actually appreciate it. I dont know how THAT post is the one that set you off...that seems fairly tame, but whatever. As I said, you may not like my delivery, but my information is usually pretty solid.

I'm not talking about you in particular, or bluntness. Just the insults. They are useless other than pissing people off

I am all for being blunt, I'm not one to beat around the bush either; but, there IS a line that you have to be wary of crossing.

he has 10 mountains and 11 ways to get them out, id have to disagree with you.

cant tell if trolling, or just stupid......

The oracle text with scapeshift states each land would trigger simultainiously, so they would all trigger valacut. its an odd rule but thats how it works, look up "magic online vlacut scapeshift" on youtube.

Why not just ditch black for white and add stepe lynx and plated geopede? Gives you access to path to exile and all that good shit too. Just a thought

I gave you credit, but i made a naya version of this to further abuse landfall with, thanks for the idea!

Writes posts blasting people for writing critical snide posts that talks down to people. Then writes critical snide posts that talks down to people...
"EVERYONE, and i mean EVERyONE, likes honesty. You can be honest without the snide ass remarks you throw in at the end of each sentence. You talk down to people. Your statements of honesty are disregarded when you turn it into a question of intelligence, and you go from being helpful to just being another prick who thinks his shit doesn't stink."
There is some expression about glass houses that applies here

so back to deck discussion... lol

Hey now, i was funny with the grizzly bear comment. But in all seriousness, someone throws up a 1600 dollar modern deck, no deck description or explanation of thoughts, gets 30 likes and 50 comments (40ish if you subtract my arguement), and not a single person points out the huge gaping flaws that this deck has? How do you not take sample hands and be like, "holy shit, im gonna lose all my life before i accomplish anything."? Im not calling him names or telling him to learn how to read, im addressing the room full of people and the deck maker, who seem to not want to make this deck better, or even acknowledge that its missing something. Infact, the maker of this deck hasnt said a single thing to anyone about any of their thoughts or ideas.

"your" argument wasnt your argument at all. It was me explaining why Kazzong was wrong in a way you didnt like so you tried to be a hero.
This deck is a combo deck with an alternate win condition that attacks your life total with Goyf. You dont have to play shock lands untapped, so you save life that way. Thoughtseize is just too good to exclude from a deck that traditionally runs countermagic, but cannot because of the color shift, so that life loss is the price of doing business. This deck curves out at 4cmc, so Bob is going to hit you for 4, maybe. usually hes going to flip a land, and with Courser out, you know whats coming, so you can plan for it by killing your own Bob if you need to.
A lot of people do not post here for advice. you assume that the deck creator 1)actually created this deck, and 2) wants your advice. Both things are possibly untrue. There are very few lists that I post here that I want help on. I use this site as a placeholder for decks I have enjoyed playing in the past, and ideas for future decks. the majority of players on this site are NOT competitive Magic players, and as such, do not have the kind of advice some people are looking for.
THIS deck is something I would be comfortable sleeving up for a real tournament. There are a ton of interesting interactions and a few valid win conditions.

Someone posts a $1600 Modern deck that you dont understand, so you trash it. There are far fewer holes here than you would like to make people believe. and your joke wasnt funny.

I actually didn't trash the damn thing and i understand exactly how it works. I can also clearly see how it doesn't work, i pointed out flaws that i could see, offered alternatives and asked questions. When i started on here, people posted decks, got some hate and some love, but almost always got advice, and whether it was good or not, you got it. If you don't like my advice and think otherwise, id love to hear your explanation and be set straight. And stop with the hero shit, i called you out on being an asshole because you were being an asshole, plain and simple. You admitted it was true even, yet you continue to bring it up as if it supports your cause whatever the hell that is. And the grizzly bear joke was fucking funny.
This deck is too slow to the kill and also too hurtful to the player from what i can see. yea you dont have to shock yourself with shocklands, but maybe you need to in order to play thoughtsieze or goyf or decay, bob or even bolt when you need it. Odds are your opponent will have answers to your very few threats and Thoughtsieze and Abrupt Decay wont be enough to get you to what is most likely going to be a turn 5-6 combo that hurts you along the way. My point is that 14 of 25 lands hurt you, and odds are pretty good that your going to have to shock yourself because your going to need to play spells and play them fast in order to ramp your lands up. Between that, Bob, and Thoughtsieze, your going to lose a bunch of life. And thats only self inflicted damage.

this deck is not too slow, you are. Im beyond over this. Sleeve the deck up and actually play it, and find out why youre wrong.

I feel a lot of decks do huge amounts of land-confidant damage to themselves, especially good teir one decks. Now if this is good or bad... Idk just hope I'm not playing burn lol

This is one of the main reasons I landed on RW Burn for GP Minneapolis last month, and it paid off for me.

Im running burn right now, ive top 8'd everything ive gone to. enough creatures to get through any leylines too'

http://www.mtgvault.com/zaklax13/decks/modern-burning/

My question is what's plan b if you have, say 6 mountains out already? Do you just sac off 5, fetch the other 5? I love the deck don't get me wrong, just curious what plan b is besides the combo. Seems like you only have so many turns before confidant kills you

whoa thats like what i said, and my comment got down voted into oblivion and all i got was shit for it.. good luck brother

I mean if you just fetch 5 it would still work, just for 10 damage though..nlol bnolt them to death? If tarmagoyf can get through...? I'd rather see it go RUG than junb so you can get snapcaster and counter spells, delver of secrets, just some more win- cons (+1^, I want to know)

http://www.mtgvault.com/zaklax13/decks/rugshift/

-my RUGshift

the plan B is Tarmogoyf, which contrary to Mobb's claims have won plenty of games on their own. Valakut decks typically run a few more mountains than this (13 in most cases) to avoid that happening. sometimes youre just going to draw all your mountains, then you have to rely on the beats.

I just put together a list for this, running 12 seemed reasonable. Tarmogoyf sure can win, some bolts to clear his way

I really like this deck, shame on the haters. only change, maybe inquisition instead of thoughtseize?

inquisition is good but it is limited. thoughtsieze can nab the high cost threats and abrupt decay handles the smaller threats

well point taken. very clever on the shift/valakut combo btw

The reason there is controversy is because the person who made the deck took two powerful deck designs that are prevalent in modern and mixed them together. Some people think that combining the two strategies makes either strategy weaker than the non-combined versions separately. That being said I think it could be good if it had more mountains and maybe Vesuvas.